<p>If (ivy) alumni giving rates are any indication of school spirit and loyalty:</p>
<p>60% , Princeton
53% , Dartmouth
43% , Yale
41% , Harvard
40% , Brown
38% , U Penn 36% , Columbia
34% , Cornell</p>
<p>Source: US News & World Report</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I did. And I couldn’t find any Columbia students and alumni directly discussing (ivy) alumni giving or at least openly admitting that it could possibly be related to school spirit. Hmmm…I wonder why.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>On the contrary, I found the Columbia admissions officers more honest and forthcoming than the students and alumni:</p>
<p>"Why stay on campus on school nights or on weekends when you’ve got the entire city at your disposal? "</p>
<p>That, but also from what I understand they can’t throw dorm parties, as is done routinely elsewhere, due to security. Few house parties (except the few lame frat parties) no dorm parties, of course they go elsewhere, there’s nothing to do, they are basically forced off campus for fun. Unfortunately, hitting the bars in NYC costs a lot of money, and the diffusion undoubtedly reduces connection with the school. Plus,going downtown every weekend gets boring relatively fast, so I’m told. Alternatives cost money, often.</p>
<p>On another note, alumni giving rates are probably correlated with how much grads liked it there, but there are other issues at play. Giving is also correlated with wealth. And, importantly, it is correlated with the amount of effort the school puts into harrassing alumni into giving. I say this as someone who shared an office with a Harvard class officer , and observed him in action as he was drumming up donations for their annual giving campaign. The heat he applied, and effort he exerted, was far beyond anything I’ve experienced from my alma maters. A key part of his appeal, among the obstinant, was that they needed the contributions so they could beat Yale. Or Princeton, or whoever. And therefore get higher rankings in US News. That is a form of school spirit and loyalty, I suppose, but it really says nothing about whether these people liked it there.</p>
<p>They want to pump up the alumni giving stats so that their school stays top-ranked so that they personally look impressive to others, themselves. The heck with the school they are thinking about themselves. Because they are competitive prestige-oriented people. whose self-image is wrapped up in the continuing prestige of their alma mater.It may say more about them- their own conception of self-interest and self- esteem-than it does about the experience they had at their school.</p>
<p>Of course, alumni giving rates cannot serve as a proxy for school spirit and loyalty. This phenomenon is obviously more complicated than that. But unless you can provide something other than one piece of anecdotal evidence that your “alma maters” are not as “harassing” about soliciting donations as other schools, it just sounds like sour grapes.</p>
<p>Show me one school that doesn’t wish to “pump up” their rankings via alumni giving or any other stats (and more generally, their “prestige” and “self-image”).</p>
<p>They all may wish to, but in my experience, with respect to my own alma maters, and my wife’s, some try harder than others. And I’ve never received a spiel like my office mate was dishing out.</p>
<p>For many reasons, you cannot generalize from a single anecdotal experience such as the “spiel like [your] office mate was dishing out.”</p>
<p>First, you have no idea if his “spiel” is typical to that of his fellow alums. Second, you have no idea this is the “spiel” that he gives at other times (when you’re not around). (Maybe he was trying to impress you.) Third, you have no idea that your fellow alums do not have similar “spiels” just because you (or your wife) have not personally received them. Fourth, your fellow alums who gave you a “soft sell” may not do the same for others depending on the situation. They may have intuitively figured out that you weren’t the type of person who’d go for a “hard sell” and settled for a more subtle approach. </p>
<p>I could go on indefinitely and list more and more reasons why you cannot draw any conclusions from your anecdotal evidence. Because you’ve committed an inductive fallacy of the worst kind, one which was based on one isolated incident.</p>
What security? I go to dorm parties with (~20-80) kids practically every weekend, yet you tell me they don’t exist! Many Columbia dorms have a suite set up, so there’s ample space to throw parties, some get broken up for noise, but most just run their course. The frat parties do tend to suck, I stopped going after about 2 weeks into freshman year, but that’s just my perspective, there definitely are people going to large (100+) frat parties every weekend. </p>
<p>Kids at Columbia do not go hit up expensive bars in NYC, perhaps 3-7% of the student body will go clubbing to expensive places, but the vast majority will either go to dorm parties or to bars near campus which are pretty reasonable ($3 beers, $4 margaritas etc.) While you can, very few people are splurging on entertainment, we are still college students on generally tight budgets, so there is a demand for cheaper places and thus a supply of them. I go out ~2 nights a week, and i’ve been to a downtown club or to an expensive bar once this entire academic year, never felt any need or push to go.</p>
<p>It’s definitely not true. I’m at Columbia as a graduate student, and the students (undergrad and grad) are very friendly and collaborative. It’s not a competitive environment IME; I took a mixed undergrad-grad class and have worked with undergrad RAs in my lab and they are all friendly and willing to learn and work together.</p>
<p>Columbia’s campus is the size of a postage stamp so yeah, you kind of have to go off campus to have any fun. And there are so many things to do in New York!</p>
<p>I find it interesting that a lot of people offering the opinion that Columbia is unappealing and unfriendly don’t actually go here, or haven’t.</p>
<p>Dimsum, you’re making an assumption that people choose Columbia primary because of NYC. Have you polled all of the undergraduate here and asked them? It’s amusing you say you walked up Low Library stairs and have eaten at Ollie’s. Walking around Morningside Heights for a few hours doesn’t make a Columbia experience. No iconic landmarks? Low Library and Butler Library aren’t “iconic” enough for you? Columbia has been a fixture in Morningside Heights since the late 1800s. Low was built in 1896. I just don’t understand what your investment is in “proving” that Columbia students are unfriendly, given that you don’t even go here.</p>
<p>pbr, I’m with you - I just don’t get where this perception of Columbia students comes from, having been here for 2 years and seen something entirely different.</p>
<p>I never said that Columbia students are “unfriendly.” I said that in general, they have less school spirit and loyalty than students from other ivies. I’ve presented Columbia’s relatively low alumni giving to support this. It is not foolproof, but at least it’s not anecdotal opinion. Since you haven’t attended any other ivies, what’s your basis for comparison? </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No. Have you??</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’ve visited the Columbia “campus” many times. I grew up in Nassau County and know tons of people (including one of my best friends from high school) who went there. I am less than impressed. At least NYU is in a cool part of town. (Greenwich Village >>> Morningside Heights)</p>
<p>You’re not helping confidentialcoll’s argument.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That means AT LEAST SOME of the grad schools do NOT have their own faculty. Given that Columbia graduate students outnumber undergraduates nearly three-to-one, who do you think gets the lion’s share of the attention from faculty that teach “mixed undergrad-grad classes” or teach either or both undergrad and grad classes?</p>
<p>I totally agree. For some reason, Columbia gets a lot of haters on CC. They also seem to make it seem that students attend it “just” because it is NYC, as if to downplay the fact that it is one of handful of the best universities in the country. Period. They also fail to realize that for everyone who finds its location in NY appealing, there are many others who don’t and will never want to go there for college.</p>
<p>Many of the negative posts are from kids who don’t know what it is like to actually be a student there. Unfortunately, they fail to disclose this fact. </p>
<p>Also, someone pointed out that alumni giving rates can be based on the socio-economic status of the students. Columbia happens to have the greater percentage of students requiring aid, so that would fall in line with the possibility of explaining its generally lower giving rate.</p>
<p>“Also, someone pointed out that alumni giving rates can be based on the socio-economic status of the students. Columbia happens to have the greater percentage of students requiring aid, so that would fall in line with the possibility of explaining its generally lower giving rate.”</p>
<p>Reaching out to underrepresented minorities and students from low income families is a very recent phenomenon. It would not explain why older alumni, who constitute a vast majority of living alumni, do not contribute.</p>
<p>dimsum, I find it interesting that you criticize me and others for referring to anecdotal evidence (in my case, self-professed), while you refer to a high school friend’s “experience” as support for your position. (How do you know what his/her experience at Columbia actually was? Perhaps he/she was lying to you? Perhaps he/she had a difficult time establishing relationships while at Columbia? Perhaps he/she (like you) never actually attended Columbia?)</p>
<p>I don’t understand why those with no connection to a particular school spend time trying to further negative stereotypes, or create new ones, about that school. I have no direct connection, but my son is living a “true” college experience. If you want to tell me that he’s lying to me, feel free.</p>
<p>When did I ever refer to my friend’s experience as support for my position? I only said that MY experiences with Columbia’s “campus” were not limited to a “few hours” because I’ve visited my friends who went there on more than several occasions. Not to mention, a family friend of mine attended Barnard when I was in middle school. So I had my first exposure to the “campus” when I was only in 7th or 8th grade.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Who’s “furthering” or “creating” stereotypes? I made no claims about the (un-)friendliness of the Columbia student body. Remember, this thread was originally in the open forums where the OP was soliciting opinions about whether Columbia has a “weak school spirit.” I responded by providing factual evidence (i.e. ivy alumni giving rates) which seem to suggest so, albeit not definitively. I fully acknowlege that no single statistic can serve as a perfect proxy for “school spirit.” But at least my empirical support is an objective basis for comparison.</p>