<p>Yeah, all that really is kind of sick. I go to a pretty well-off, suburban public school, and we only send like half a dozen kids to the Ivies and Ivy-esques a year. Out of classes of 500-600 ppl. Well, a harvard rumor circulating at the high school in a nearby town is that a harvard admission officer called their school, and asked the counselor on the line which of their 3 EA applicants were the most qualified. The counselor said "her" student, who was accepted, and the other two got deferred. Eh, I dunno how much of that is true or if it's even significant, but that's the rumor in Asian parent circles at least, haha.</p>
<p>Slicmlic, It is not that public schools are getting shafted, its just that getting into the top New England Boarding Schools (Andover, Exeter, Groton, etc) is very difficult. The competition is fierce and very competitive with their classes filled with not only top test takers but also well rounded students. These students would have advanced where ever they were. Take a look at Stuy-- in NY. It is a public test school. It places large numbers in the Ivys as well.</p>
<p>I have the feeling that Stuy, while placing a lot of people in great schools, only does so for the top say, 200 people. Which, granted, is still a lot of people but what happens to the other 500? Sure you can hear about 20 people going to an ivy and you're like wow but even if you add up all those...there are still a lot of people left behind. </p>
<p>I mean, prep schools are college preparatory after all so essentially you're paying for an education geared towards college and for great counseling to get you in. For Stuy they have like 1 counselor for 700 students, while many private schools have about 1 per 50 or less students. I know that I've certainly been to my counselor many times. She's read all my essays, and remembers them. I highly doubt that many people in public school would get this kind of attention. </p>
<p>Another factor is the high number of legacy students in private schools. The connections, donations, etc. will obviously help. I also agree that the students in private schools are already highly qualified because the schools are so selective. </p>
<p>In any case, my school has 100% graduation rate, 100% going to 4-year institutions, and I doubt more than 10 people each year go to anything less than 1st tier.</p>
<p>I go to a public school, 450 kids in a class, and we haven't sent a kid to HYPSM for 6 years. I very well might be the first person to go to Princeton. And this /isn't/ because we're dumb, seriously we could send more - but we have lovely counselors who like to screw us over, and actually DISCOURAGE us from applying to good schools. ***</p>
<p>My school is fairly rich, suburban, and very much white/asian (tons of Jews and Mormans). However, we do have 2 1600s, and like 10 others with 1500+. 5 people Applied EA/ED to the top schools. One got deferred from Harvard, another from Yale, another from Stanford, me from you-know-where, and the last got into Notre Dame (she's a legacy) but was deferred from Georgetown.</p>
<p>Last year 2 people got into Stanford, 1 got into MIT, another into CalTech, one into Gtown and one went to Cornell. I'm sure others went to top schools, but I can't think of any. And this is out of a class of like 700 people, from a school that is considered an academic powerhouse. The In-State schools offer so much money that most people, including one Stanford acceptee and the Georgetown acceptee, chose ASU.</p>
<p>Unlike shrek, my school obviously isnt a feeder.</p>
<p>Yale took 3 guys from my school 2 yrs ago,Pton took 2 four years ago.</p>
<p>we have the same thing going on at my school, prettyfish...the opposition students face from counselors and teachers is amazing in terms of applying to ivy league institutions...i swear, i would get wayyy more respect if i told my counselor i was looking forward to going to a community college, and hopefully transferring to a state school than i do for applying to harvard, princeton, yale, etc... it's like they're purposely trying to hold us down. They have this worker-bee mentality that brings scorn upon those trying to better themselves by wanting to take hard classes or get into top schools....You get branded as being "elitist" if u mention you wanna go to an ivy....but the exact opposite POV is prevalent at top prep-schools, where you get made fun of if you DON'T wanna go to an ivy....makes you really sit and wonder bout our current social system :-</p>
<p>Maybe I just hate my counselor because she CONSTANTLY marks me down on evaluations for the personal things - like "self-confidence" and "character". GRRRR. But seriously. She told me that I couldn't handle taking Physics and AP Chem the same year (that's a lie, Physics was a joke class), and we had to fight with her to get her to let me do PSEO (where I've been taking college math classes for the past 2 years, thank heavens), and she wouldn't let me see my Princeton recommendation she had to write - my parents actually had to call and demand she let me see it (and then she tried to trick me into waiving my right of access). SO SICK of incompetent counselors.</p>
<p>(My favorite story is probably my friends, last year. She asked her counselor which SAT 2's she should take, based on her courses she's taken and her preparedness... he got a confused look on his face and said "Don't you take all of them?")</p>
<p>My counselor: "Did you hear back from Princeton?"
Me: "I got deferred."
My counselor: "What does that mean?"</p>
<p>Sigh. And she is one of the best counselors at my school, too.</p>
<p>out of sheer curiousity prettyfish,</p>
<p>was there something bad that the counselor put on your recommendation?</p>
<p>Isn't a rec supposed to be confidential?</p>
<p>So far, my mostly white suburban private school has 1 in at Dartmouth, 3 at Columbia, 1 at Princeton, 2 at Yale, 1 at Brown, and 1 at Harvard. So out of a class of 84, that's 10.7%. And if you add in 5 to Stanford, you get 16.66% in to a first tier "ivy/western ivy" school EA or ED. It'll probably get higher after regular decisions, and I'll admit, we have great counsellors. We're no new england prep school, but they try really hard to advocate for us.</p>
<p>In re recs: as far as I know, if you don't waive your right to access them, then it's not.</p>
<p>And yes, she didn't give me the recommendation I thought I deserved - all my other stuff was stellar, but she marked me WAY down on my 'personal qualities', which really offended me, because she doesn't know me AT ALL, so how is she supposed to judge my 'openmindness', etc. I was most offended with 'self-confidence', and all my friends were boggled, because if you knew me, that's one thing I'm not lacking in ;)</p>
<p>Thank goodness I got in ED, because I was totally ready to blame it on her (hey, we all need to blame something, no?)</p>
<p>
[quote]
we have lovely counselors who like to screw us over, and actually DISCOURAGE us from applying to good schools.
[/quote]
True prettyfish. It seems those special counselors are ubiquitous. I know I've met more than one in my lifetime. </p>
<p>If the private school students have more "college prepping" than kids who go to public schools, how is it that most ivys have 50-50 distribution between private and public acceptances?</p>
<p>I wish I went to private school. So far 0.2727% of the class is in at ivies.</p>
<p>Because there's more public schools than private schools in the nation?</p>
<p>That is right on target prettyfish. The pool of prep kids is tiny in comparison to the huge public population. Keep in mind though the prep kids are all pre-screened. Its called the SSAT.</p>
<p>Not every "prep school" has a goal of accepting and educating the top scorers on the SSAT. Many have a quite different mission. </p>
<p>If you are referring only to a small handful of super-elites (Andover, Exeter, Groton, St. Pauls, Lawrenceville, Milton, Thacher, Deerfield, etc., then your point is well-taken.</p>
<p>back to the original question... yeah students from particular schools are DEFINATELY judged against eachother, or at least that is the case for most selective colleges/universities. applicants are measured against their school population, then their region, and then finally all applicants in general. at my school the gcs have to say who's the best fit for the school in their recommendation as in "Sally Mae is the strongest in the pool applying to Princeton from our school this year"
and in the gatekeepers an applicant was deferred to see how she would fare against regular decision applicants from her same school - they didnt want to send the wrong message to a school and let in someone with lower scores than another student.
so yeah, be prepared to be pitted against your classmates. :)</p>
<p>Yes Mr. B. that is the group I am referring to. The admissions officers at those schools look at students much the same way that HYP applicants look at theirs. Academics, SSAT scores, hooks, legacies, athletics are all considered. That is why these students make such good fits for the Ivys. They already passed the same sort of test.</p>