Study says many highly talented low-income students never apply to top colleges

Parents Forum
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<p>In the state of North carolina, it is written into the state laws that anyone who achieves a satisfactory passing of the state “core curriculum” at the community college level is guaranteed admission to one of the four year universities with full two years of credit. </p>

<p>Illinois has articulation agreements with the state universities for the same thing. </p>

<p>Those are the two states I am most familiar with, and I think this is an excellent use of taxpayer dollars. Now, if the pell kids could just get the same percentage of their four year schooling paid that they did when the program was initiated, I’d call it almost perfect.</p>

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<p>Totally agree, poetgirl and oiv. </p>

<p>Virginia is another state with excellent articulation agreements.</p>

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<p>Ha - I worded that poorly! I meant “some Midwesterners who fell off the turnip truck” - not all Midwesterners!<br>
Interestingly enough, when I went to hs in suburban St Louis, the thinking about colleges was FAR more expansive and sophisticated than what I saw in my kids’ suburban Chicago hs.</p>

<p>And I certainly have spent plenty of time on this board decrying the northeasterners who have no problem suggesting Harvard to the smart kid from Minneapolis but who couldn’t fathom Carleton for the smart kid from Boston because they’d have to get on a plane and all and isn’t that flyover country?</p>

<p>Don’t worry, bclintonk, I’m still on your side :-)</p>

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<p>I do not know anything about low income and where they apply.
However I know good number of very high caliber HS kids from private prep. HSs that never applied to top colleges, they simply did not see any reason. My D. and many of her friends are example of this, their HS is the most expansive in our area by far. Most of the kids are currently in Med. Schools after graduating from state (mostly public) UGs.</p>

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I understand that GC’s are often supporting hundreds of kids and therefore cannot be expected to know each kid well. Colleges identify prospective students using algorithms based on PSAT and SAT score ranges and the personal questions students answer before taking the SAT. Aren’t there programs for GC’s that recommend colleges based on students’ scores, grades, courses taken, ECs, and other attributes? Students could use such programs directly, but they may not get around to it. They may also ignore schools that such programs list based on sheer unfamiliarity. A good guidance counselor would know at least a little bit about lots of schools and encourage students to consider schools they otherwise might not.</p>

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<p>That’s the whole point of the esteemed scholars/authors’ article miami. They just can’t believe that anyone would not aspire to their esteemed colleges. (After all, they worked hard to get to the pinnacle of American Universities’ professoriate, and it has to go without saying that everyone else should to. Of course, that would just make them more special.). Thus, they wrote a paper blaming the GC for their students’ ignorance of their esteemed institutions. :D</p>

<p>fwiw: what really surprises me is how their stuff gets through peer review, when this stuff can’t even pass the basic smell test. Does no one on the review panel have the wherewithal to point out that they esteemed ‘emperors’ have no clothes? :rolleyes:</p>

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<p>"Wondering here, how we think those GCs “tailor” for each bright kid? "
-if you rely on GC, do not expect the best match. They are very busy. Even at D’s school with 33 kids in graduating class, GC was asking me for the names of some programs that D. might have potential interest and he had no idea about any details, and I did not expect him to know. I took me 2 years of research for my D. It cannot possibly be expected of GC to spend that much on each kid, no way! H is st there for more or less some general paper workd / scheduling of event…etc. It is responsibility of each family to do their research and income level has absolutely nothing to do with that. If parents are committed and it is OK with the student, then it is done. If no commitment or student refuse taking advice, then the student is pretty much on his/her own. And my S. did just that at the time we were very busy and he knew exactly what he wanted. He did it also when nobody had computers at home, ancient time. He ended up going where he wanted to go, yes, his number one program. The same happened with my D.</p>

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<p>My kids went to a high school at which about a fifth of the kids were in a magnet IB program which generates a lot of high-scoring, high-achieving students each year. The rest of the school was local kids, including a pretty substantial number of low-income kids and kids with limited English skills. All students were apportioned to GCs alphabetically. The result was that the GCs didn’t really have time to focus much on the IB kids.</p>

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<p>So, BB, if you haven’t seen the recent Atlantic article about the “data vigilante,” you might like it.</p>

<p>Bel, when I look at the range of colleges kids go to, in real life, the ardor with which some posters speak of various schools, it’s obvious (to me) that no one person can presume to narrow it down perfectly- and many schools can fit the bill for any one kid. And that a certain amount of savvy, research and comparative understanding is often needed. And then the “what the heck” aspects.</p>

<p>We were lucky with the GC- she suggested about 15-20 and pushed one in particular, which turned out to be perfect. But, of the other 20, only maybe 3 were appropriate, at all. She based this on D1’s strengths and potential major. We did the hard matching- which less experienced families can’t do.</p>

<p>A GC would have to know not just the names of schools, but strengths in various majors, activities available, and some real sense of how to predict an admit- what do * those* schools look for in holistic? Times how many schools out there? So you get this vanilla thing. Same old medium-sized list. Or short list.</p>

<p>I also ran the CB program- and got the most outrageous suggestions, none of which were even on the competitive level D1 could handle, the challenge level she wanted in her major. (More like a marketing tool, it seems; put those college names in front of us, fit or not.) The majors weren’t even broken down sufficiently. </p>

<p>I think Fiske helped get us started- but imagine an inexperienced family tryng to sort that out. I suspect that’s why so many kids get pointed at the obvious local or regional names.</p>

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<p>^Challenges could be found at absolutely any UG, no need to attach certain college name to the notion of being challenging. My own D. was shocked by the academic gap between her private prep. HS that places 100% to 4 year colleges every single year and the first semester material at her State Public UG. She also happened to graduate #1 in her HS class. She was challenged plenty and above.</p>

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<p>Well a lot of low-income guys do apply and get accepted!</p>

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<p>I’m sorry, but not everyone has the ideal circumstances to move across the country or even to another city or state… I have a cumulative GPA of 4.0 and 54 college credits, but I cannot afford to move financially and due to family circumstances. My mother is elderly and is nearly blind with end-stage glaucoma, and has a torn rotator cuff. If I moved I would need to take her with me because I help take care of her. There are no other family members to do this. Also, I want to transfer to a nursing program and not many of the top colleges offer that degree, they have a heavy emphasis on liberal arts programs</p>

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<p>@ Beliavsky, I tried to open the PDF file. It wouldn’t load for whatever reason. :frowning: Cross High has many students that come with a bevy of psych/social issues and I have heard wonderful things about their honors program. The honors kids are kept separate from the rest of the population and I am not so sure how I feel about that. That school is twice the size of Ds school and I worked with a few of their GC’s on a college event last spring and they firmly believe that nothing is wrong with cc’s. </p>

<p>@Miami I think your children went to a very nice private school so I don’t think that your experience is relatable to the experiences of many who face the issues that low ses kids face. Its a little tough to think of college planning/admissions/selecting a good match when a.) the parent has never set foot on a college campus b.) probably never took the SAT c.) has to worry about feeding her children and keeping her lights/heat on. Lets not mention the fact that many parents feel intimidated by their lack of education and feel that they don’t have a voice. </p>

<p>Sorry… not trying to offend but your experience is like shopping on Rodeo Drive. Whereas many students are only able to shop in a corner bodega.</p>

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<p>I like what lookingforward, ucberkleyalumni, mimi, and a couple others said.</p>

<p>Like one person said, many people take care of their families and cannot move away or afford to move the entire family with them. Just groceries are expensive (good thing there is grocery outlet, discount stores; free food programs for those who cannot get enough aid) and transportation. Cars break down and it costs much money to fix them. Books are pricey, but amazon and buying from other students helps with that. I’m the only one contributing in my elderly, single parent, disabled household by working and going to college, where I get financial aid, thankfully in California which has cal grants and generous aid to its low income residents. I work part time, too, with FWS. IT ALL WORKS!!!</p>

<p>I hope anyone in high school would know what I didn’t: you can get financial aid and make it. Not having counselors, guidance, teachers, the school not noticing you can be tough, but though they ignored me there and didn’t notice/care about the 3.6 GPA (and paying attention to people who are better connected with the school, usually those better off, as others mentioned), I have a 4.0 cumulative almost 2 years in now into college, getting the same or even better than those students they paid attention too! Family circumstances can be hard, but they can be learning experiences and make you strong, stronger than you ever thought you could be! The process can be difficult: SATs, college applications, class choices, scholarship applications, even if you don’t do well in this or miss it completely, don’t take it to heart, I scored mediocre on the PSATs cried and gave up entirely on the SATs, but I went to college and got a 4.0, almost two years in, and a person going to the same college just got into Yale!</p>

<p>Take heart, don’t give up, and keep on plugging away!!! YOU CAN DO IT!!!</p>

<p>Merry Christmas and God Bless!</p>

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<p>sunny,
“Also, I want to transfer to a nursing program and not many of the top colleges offer that degree”
-Listen here, my D. and many of her friends are in Med. School after graduating from local public state UGs. If these college were enough for them to be accepted to several Med. Schools, including top 20, believe me, that absolutely ANY UG that has a nursing program, will be plenty challenging and enough to be a great nurse. I guarantee you that, no exceptions, it is really up to you, forget the name of your UG. You will be fine as long as you work hard. And kuddos to you for helping your family. Do not be put down by anybody, stand on your own, you will be just fine. D. had very many in her Med. School class who graduated from Ivy’s (Harvard, etc…). She is NOT inferior to them at all, after graduating from state public UG and she has others in her class from her UG, all doing just fine.</p>

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<p>I completely relate to this because I was guaranteed a scholarship that would cover my tuition at all my in-state schools. Didn’t even bother applying outside</p>

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<p>For Poor, Leap to College Often Ends in a Hard Fall
<a href=“Poor Students Struggle as Class Plays a Greater Role in Success - The New York Times”>Poor Students Struggle as Class Plays a Greater Role in Success - The New York Times;

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<p>^ great article, thanks for posting it oldmom.</p>

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<p>THanks for the link oldmom.</p>

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<p>I am not surprised that the “gap is widening.” The government student loan lending program is partly to blame. Initially set up to encourage the poor to go to college, it has widened the financial gap between the wealthy and the poor. College is becoming more and more a luxury for the wealthy.</p>