low-income students often unaware of existence of fee waivers, financial aid

<p>I was speaking to some HS graduates in C'ville recently... as I recall 25% of C'ville lives below the poverty line. One who graduated from HS last year (and was now doing people's hair) had wanted to apply to college, but didn't, thinking that money would be an issue. She didn't seem to know about fee waivers. That's like the 9th time I've heard the same thing.</p>

<p>It's funny how so much depends on how informed your parents are. I remember a young coworker last summer who had always been fascinated with rocks. But rather than being en route to studying geology, she was now en route to fending for herself on hourly pay. She hadn't even investigated the idea of college apps (as I interpret her reason) because she had always been told to know her place. After all, those hours you spend writing essays mean time you aren't spending doing some economic activity. Oh, and her guidance counselor didn't even think about it either. Woohoo, yay for self-fulfilling prophecies.</p>

<p>Part of the issue too, is that college is seen as some risky gateway to riches, and not a gateway to intellectual fulfillment. And in some environments it might be seen as just a slightly longer version of a get rich scheme.</p>

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<p>You think kids from poor families can pursue majors like geology? What world are you living in? Even if she had gotten a fee waiver, she still would need to have gotten a job with that degree after college or else she basically just forwent 4 years of potential salary.</p>

<p>College is only about intellectual enlightenment to well-off kids; for the rest, it’s about gaining job skills in a profession.</p>

<p>Science is still science. There are a lot of revenue streams for someone with a major in an environmental science; don’t underestimate their applications. </p>

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<p>Say what? </p>

<p>I’m from a low-income family and I think that’s a pretty respectable field. Grad school might sound a bit much (more years!), you could end up TA’ing in it. I came to college expecting to do linguistics.</p>

<p>There’s been some interest in the idea of “cultural capital” and knowledge like this (what you need to do to get into college, how waivers are available, etc). Lacking it can be a barrier to entry–and a barrier to success if students do enroll. Lower-income students, and those who don’t have family members who have attended college, are at risk for being uninformed in these ways.</p>

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<p>…what world are YOU living in that you think geology is an unemployable major? There is huge demand right now for geology majors in mining and oil, and the US Department of Labor predicts that geology jobs will rise at about twice the average rate for all jobs over the next decade.</p>

<p>[Geoscientists</a> in High Demand in the Oil Industry - Science Careers - Biotech, Pharmaceutical, Faculty, Postdoc jobs on Science Careers](<a href=“http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_magazine/previous_issues/articles/2008_08_08/caredit.a0800119]Geoscientists”>http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_magazine/previous_issues/articles/2008_08_08/caredit.a0800119)</p>

<p>unfortunately, both galoisen and gthopeful are both close to correct.
Low income families have very little accurate info available on the
college process and yes, for most of them, fields like geology, especially
if it requires a grad degree are not accessible. Most low income kids
are going to stay close to home, major in fields were jobs are available
after 2 to 4 years of college. I suspect most low income kids are realistic.</p>

<p>Even with a ton of info most colleges, at least in my state, are not
accessible to low income families, without huge loans - and these loans
rule out grad school for most of them.</p>

<p>Well, the wife of my ex brother-in-law was a geology student who was the product of a low-income, single parent family. She is now pulling down a mid-six figure income working for Exxon Mobil. So sometimes what appears to be fantasy becomes reality.</p>

<p>It has aslo been my experience that many, many middle income parents have no understanding of financial aid, merit scholarships and institutional grants.</p>

<p>a lot of kids are ignorant in this way. a low income acquaintance(who only applied to rutgers) once told me “If I were as rich as you I would have gone to Harvard” without realizing that Harvard meets full need. at the same time, though, he was totally ignorant of the true level of difficulty of getting in to Harvard and thought the only requirements were “being rich” and being “smart.”</p>

<p>It is true that most don’t know about them. I go to a pretty low income school and most kids here always think of top schools as impossible to get into and impossible to afford. Hell, if it weren’t for this place I wouldn’t even think of looking at any of them. My mom isn’t aware of all the financial aid opportunities out there.</p>

<p>so how’s knowing all this info really going to help a low income kid?
Unless the kid has great stats, all the info in the world isn’t really going
to help. The kid’s going to a community college or with luck, the
local state u. And the fee waiver thing is pretty bogus, if you can’t
afford the app fee to these places, you ain’t going anyway.</p>

<p>Well there are great essays/interviews/holistic admissions to go by …</p>

<p>I think you also forget the existence of this little thing called a Pell Grant, as well as subsidized loans… it’s enough to cover the full expense of an in-state community college education. Now try a fantastic community college system like NoVa’s…</p>

<p>And cheap in-state schools work too.</p>

<p>So if your low income you do not have to pay a application fee?</p>

<p>I applied to ten schools on fee waiver…</p>

<p>Also half the battle is getting OUT of the environment that kept you down in the first place, especially those bogus friends/classmates who tell you to “keep it real”.</p>

<p>I’m sure I will qualify then, I guess I can apply to ten schools also ( or at lest all those I send my ACT to, hopefully this isnt abusing the system…). Meaning my chances of acceptance into a university will be higher… that puts a relief</p>

<p>re: grad school for low-income students – as I imagine grad students can often subsidise their tuition significantly by TA’ing, getting internships at other places, and applying for research grants for their individual projects. With some financial aid, perhaps it’s possible to get a surplus?</p>

<p>everything is possible but it happens for only a very small number of
low income kids. In today’s economy, that kid who has a job as a hair-
dresser, may be a very wise young person. The last thing one needs is
a useless college degree, huge debt and no way to pay for it. Low income
kids aren’t stupid and with or without college info, they’re not going to
fall for the same old nonsense.</p>

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It’s more difficult for master’s programs (although funded master’s programs do exist and can be found), but PhD programs are generally fully funded – tuition waiver, health care, and a living stipend. The stipend varies by field and by cost of living in the area, but science and engineering stipends are currently around $20-30,000 per year.</p>

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<p>A degree in geology is very applicable. It intersects with chemistry, materials science, oil, public sector, earthquake proofing…and once you’re pulled into college you’re guaranteed to find other fields to branch out into, and a support structure.</p>

<p>You don’t have that support structure from kids telling you to keep it real in HS.</p>

<p>Your imagination seems to be lacking in the science area.</p>

<p>I completely agree with galoisien. Not being aware of the financial issues is a problem in of itself. But I would even argue that this is the tip of the iceberg.</p>

<p>As Obstinate suggests, College Confidential is especially helpful for students from low-income environments. In these environments, parents, other students and possibly even guidance counselors are often unaware of how to apply to universities which are appropriate for high-achieving students. But thanks to the Internet, students in these environments can nonetheless learn about universities and financial aid.</p>

<p>Even so, a student from a low-income environment is likely to have repeatedly been given the message that attending a top university is out of the question. If so, they might not investigate thoroughly enough to learn about the financial aid opportunities which are available to them. So even if this information is readily available, a given student may still fail to find it.</p>

<p>But an even greater problem is the social pressure involved. In environments where few students attend top universities, there may be significant social pressure against even trying to attend a top university. In fact, there may be social pressure against going to college at all. In these environments, a student’s peers are less likely to be doing the things which will help them get into college. They’re likely to be less concerned about grades. They may be less interested in EC’s, less able to participate in them due to a need to work to support the family, or both. As high school students are highly responsive to peer pressure, such a student may follow along with what their peers are doing. Thus, even if the student ultimately chooses to attend university, they may have fewer options than they would have otherwise.</p>

<p>Peer pressure may be overt as well. Speaking from experience, if one goes to college while most of one’s close friends aren’t college-bound, resentment is likely to result.</p>

<p>Also, in low-income environments, prestigious universities are usually believed to be the province of the privileged. As a result, students from these environments may assume that they won’t fit in socially at prestigious universities even if they can earn admittance and somehow pay the bill. They would usually be incorrect, but the perception is what is relevant here. This is another disincentive to even try to go to a top university.</p>

<p>Overcoming these social barriers requires a strong determination to do the right thing for oneself despite a lack of social support for doing so. It’s probably necessary to ignore overt criticism of one’s efforts. Most people don’t have this determination, even if they’re excellent students.</p>

<p>and now for reality - the number of low income students at top schools,
the ones that give the good finaid have been in decline for some time. [Disappointing</a> Progress in Enrollments of Low-Income Students at America’s Most Selective Colleges and Universities](<a href=“http://www.jbhe.com/features/61_lowincome.html]Disappointing”>Disappointing Progress in Enrollments of Low-Income Students at America’s Most Selective Colleges and Universities) And the main reason,
“students from low income families are still having trouble competing for
spaces at these institutions.” Low income students either can’t get in or
can’t pay the bill. Low income students score significantly lower on SATs,
don’t have tons of EC’s, work jobs after school and present a very different
application profile than most apps at selective schools. In fact the app
process is currently designed to keep them out. Financially it is almost impossible.
without huge loans. At $35,000 family income you’re only getting about $4,000
in Pell grants. The price of private and public colleges has risen far faster
than financial assistance effectively squeezing out most low income students.
The reality for 95% of low income students is attending a community college,
commuting, going to school after work, taking out loans to go to a local
state school, spending 6 or more years getting the degree. It’s a very hard
road and no surprise that many kids decide to forego that approach. For
most low income kids, no amount of info is going to change their situation.
Until there is widespread commitment to substantial increases in aid, the
situation for this economic group will not change - in fact without that the
number of low income students going to college is likely to decline. Information,
fee waivers etc are no substitute for generous financial aid.</p>