<p>My son is in process of completing his application to the academy. He has completed the medical exam and is about to take the fitness tests - which he will pass easily. He is a college freshman and an outstanding candidate in every respect (except a small problem I will mention later). He has interviewed with his ALO and has been assured by him that, even though he does not have a MOC recommendation, he is so superior that he will likely not need one. This is somewhat confusing to me inasmuch as everything I read says he must have one. Can anyone respond to this? In addition, and of great concern to me and my son, he made a mistake this past fall and was cited for underage drinking - stupid college freshman mistake. I know that he must disclose this. It was a terrible mistake on his part and did show very poor judgement. Notwithstanding this, will this become a serious enough impediment to deny an offer of appointment? Does anyone have any suggestions on how he can overcome this or how to address it?</p>
<p>I can't comment on the Drinking under age. I know the academy frowns on this, but how much weight to lend to that offense is up to them. Plus, if there's more than enough applicants, they may not feel compelled to need to cut any slack. Remember; they start out with approximately 10,000 prospects. That goes down to about 6000 applicants. That then goes down to about 2500 candidates. Out of that, they select approximately 1600. Of those, approximately 1350 will walk into BCT summer training in June. Of that; approximately 1270 will make it out of there and actually become a "Cadet" and start school. 4 years later, there will be approximately 975 that graduate. How much weight they will put on his drinking offense is totally up to them.</p>
<p>Concerning the nomination; someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone must have a nomination in order to get into the academies. This includes athletes and such. Now, prior military (Active enlisted) have a different process. Also, there are different types of nominations besides a senator or congressman/woman. These include presidentials as 1 example. But, for all intent and purpose, every candidate will need a nomination.</p>
<p>Having said that; if the academy thinks highly of the candidate, and gives them a Letter of Assurance; many senators and representatives will give the benefit of the doubt and give the nomination. They figure if the academy thinks highly enough of this individual, then they will trust that opinion. Not a guarantee, but it helps. If they still don't get the nomination, they can be put into a national pool for slots that free up. If your son is going at it head to head with the other state applicants and doesn't have an LOA or some sort of special consideration, then it's going to be difficult. I have senators here who won't even interview a person if they have ANY legal issues against them. They feel that there are plenty other candidates with just as good of grades without such problems. Why even consider it. But then again, each senator or rep is different.</p>
<p>Anyway, hope this info helps. If I got any part of it incorrect, hopefully one of the others can correct me. Merry Christmas.</p>
<p>Alcat, not real familiar with all the inner workings of AFA but since all three major service academies work basically the same, I will throw out my thoughts. I would be more inclined to listen to what the ALO said than the moralizings of a random poster. Good kids do make mistakes. At USNA, these candidates will write a statement and their package will go before a ‘character’ review board. If the board feels, from the statement, that the candidate has learned a lesson and will not repeat the mistake, the incident is not normally held against them. I would imagine that AFA has a somewhat similar process. There are mids/cadets today at all three academies who fall under this category.</p>
<p>There are several current threads over on the USNA forum which describe various ways that a ‘back door’ nomination may be obtained. Those in the ‘national pool’ do, in fact, need nominations and as your ALO alludes, the AFA will assist him in obtaining one.</p>
<p>Good luck. The only downside is that your situation probably forebodes a long wait. The qualified alternate pool can only be firmed up after the primary nominations have been awarded and the qualified alternate pool will have to be pretty much in place before your situation can be addressed.</p>
<p>I think the "moralizings of a random poster" were quite spot on. He is correct that nominations are required, but that will be something you should discuss with your representatives to see if his citation will prevent them from offering one. </p>
<p>I know people that were sent to a prep school first and they believed it was because of such an infraction. While I'm not saying it will happen or that's a reason to go to prep school, I know people with similar or worse offenses that are at the academy. It isn't a show killer, but it will be a problem, especially with the crackdown on alcohol that begun this year.</p>
<p>I was in the exact same situation 2 years ago. I applied as a college feshman, and I also got into a little bit of trouble for underage drinking. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have to disclose it unless he got into serious trouble with the law... if you want any more specifics just ask me</p>
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<p>If I am not mistaken, alcat stated that his son did not receive a MOC nomination, and combined with the ALO comment, lead me to believe that he believes the reason is due to the alcohol infraction. </p>
<p>Federal law requires the academies to develop a system of merit and use it for all applicants. They are not at liberty to simply dismiss a candidate due to perceived shortcomings. In this situation, there will be a formal go/no go decision made and then, if ‘go’, he will reenter the process with his merit score intact, his situation no more difficult than any other candidate. If he receives a ‘no go’, no amount of merit in the world will get him appointed. Cut and dry. Black and white.</p>
<p>In alcat’s situation, the lack of nomination problem will remain. </p>
<p> [quote=PatriotCPM] I'm pretty sure he doesn't have to disclose it unless he got into serious trouble with the law
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<p>Not sure exactly what the AFA application asks, but would a very common “have you ever been in trouble with the law” question from your ALO have jeopardized your application? My advice would be to be totally up front and, if in doubt, disclose.</p>
<p>I sprecifically said that I wasn't commenting on the drinking part, other than how our congressman and such luck at it. I was commenting specifically on the nomination requirements. Other than enlisted personnel and prep school possibly, I believe the poster's alo is incorrect in stating that their son wouldn't need a nomination. That is what is vague.</p>
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<p>It's not uncommon at all for someone not to have their MOC nomination by now, many MOC's make their decisions in January, I saw nothing here that said he was denied, just that he didn't have one. And the comment of the ALO seems more to point to the fact that he is a stellar candidate and would get a nomination even if it isn't from a MOC source. I didn't see anything to connect the alcohol incident to the MOC.</p>
<p>As far as go, no go alcat, to keep from becoming too fearful, there are cadets who have done marijuana and are at the academy (and admitted to using). While the alcohol citation, if he admits, is a black spot, it probably won't completely kill his application unless the new alcohol policies enacted this year for cadets somehow trickled down into the admissions process.</p>
<p>^^^^^^ Yep, you could be correct. However, if your scenario proves to be correct, of course I will blame alcat for not explaing himself properly instead of admitting to having egg on my face.</p>
<p>Hornetguy is right @ many MOC's have not submitted their list yet. S received nom yesterday from Sen. Dole, interview with Sen. Burr is Jan. 5th. and MOC is meeting now (1st cut was in Oct., 2nd cut paperwork was due Dec.15th). </p>
<p>Only you can answer if he didn't get the nom b/c you should know the cut-off dates.</p>
<p>USNA is also right you can only expect honest answers if the entire scenario is laid out, I am not asking for you to place out there, but if there is more to it than the answer might be different</p>
<p>HAPPY HOLIDAYS</p>
<p>Alcat the Academy knows young adults make mistakes. They are also very specific in the application questionaire for a reason. Even if it isn't a problem in the application phase, if accepted he will be screened for security clearence. The Air Force usually screens for at least a "Secret" level security clearence. During that screening any violation he may have as a part of public record would be discovered. That could present problems later. Review everything with the ALO, and if you have questions call the Admissions Counselor. Most of all remember what Patriot said, you can make that type of mistake and still be accepted. As for the nomination more information maybe needed. Did he apply for the Congressional and Presidential nominations available to him? Was he rejected by all nominating sources? Is he waiting to here about a nominating source? Many still have not completed their process, and you should be aware they can nominate more than one candidate for each slot they have available. Some nominating sources may not use all the slots available to them, others may have multiple candidates against an available slot.</p>
<p>Hello and happy holidays everyone, I am alcat's son... which perhaps makes me al-kitten but I would prefer not to think of myself as such. In any case, my father informed me of this thread he started on my dilemma and I was both surprised and very appreciate of all of your responses thus far. To clarify some information I can explain the situation somewhat more. I realized how greatly my desires to attend the USAFA had intensified towards the end of my first semester in college. I am attending a fairly rigorous public university and took a decent load of challenging courses. The challenge is not what has thrown my attention back towards the Academy; in many regards it is the lack of challenges rather. I maintained a 4.0 GPA in college and tried to participate in plenty of clubs and intramural sports which I hope can keep me competitive in the application process. Why I am so determined to attend the Academy is somewhat of a long story but I can assure everyone my reasons are compelling and something I believe fully in. As far as the process went, I came to a my realizations too late to secure a nomination. While I have sent letters to all my representatives, I highly doubt that I can get a last minute nomination from any of them (they have already made their selections for the year). My ALO was very helpful following my interview in which I informed him of this predicament and he indicated that I was very competitive and sometimes the Academy has other ways to go about securing a nomination... because one is still necessary to enter as I have gathered. So this brings about my major question, does anybody have any personal experience with this situation, particularly anyone who has gotten accepted to the academy through such a channel. Also, concerning my... well stupidity in receiving a citation for underage possession of alcohol I have a few questions. I have not yet appeared in court for this but when I do, there is somewhat of a chance that the charges may be dismissed. In this case, does anybody know whether I must list the offense at all? Also, does anybody here have any knowledge of someone in a similar position or with similar charges being accepted or rejected based on the circumstances in this type of situation. Thank you all again for your thorough responses thus far; happy holidays.
Al(kitten)?</p>
<p>I am in a similar situation to you, al-kitten. I got a citation for damage to property when I was in high school. Although it is not a chemical offense, it is still very similar in that the Academies see it as a red flag in the candidate's character. I got into West Point and am still waiting on the Navy and Air Force with disclosing the entire incident (police records, probation officer reviews, etc.). My only concern with you is that this is something that is still pending because you have not yet appeared in court. I think it would be in your best interest to get it taken care of right away. I do not think the Academies care if you have a citation on your record or not. The fact is that it happened. Also, it may look bad to USAFA that you did not apply early enough so that you could receive nominations. I mean I am no expert on the admissions process, but it seems like if you really wanted to go to USAFA, you would have read their Drug/Alcohol policy and would have abided by it at least during the application process. You have to disclose the entire situation because they want anything legal including things that have expunged. I mean you cannot be embarrassed about the situation. Cadets get separated for lying out of embarrassment of little things like not shaving. This is a profession where honesty and character are everything. You do not want to walk into USAFA with anything but a clear conscience. In my opinion, your best option as of right now is to demonstrate that you have matured from this incident and show that this type of behavior will not happen again.</p>
<p>Alcat-Alkitten you have a range of options. If you look through the Service Academy threads you will see people have been accepted with offenses like yours. Be sure they are the exception not the rule. You may wish to consider making your application and nomination the best it can be for 2013. Makes for a long college career, but who knows. Consider and be open to prep school. Contact all your nominating sources and discuss your situation. If you are in a less competative area they may consider you. Be sure you have the Nomination paperwork for the Pres/VP if eligible, I don't think those close until January. Work with your ALO and the Counselors office at USAFA they are there to help you. Good luck, whether your Blue or Silver if you want it don't give up.</p>