<p>My friend was just telling me about how strict Santa Clara is about drinking-- her freshamn son is complaining about it! He says there’s no drinking anywhere, and they are very strong about a “three strikes” rule-- three times with alcohol and you’re expelled. He said he’s not seeing drinking on campus at all, at least where freshman are.</p>
<p>The Jesuit schools have traditionally been big drinking schools (a vice allowed to Catholics!), and the same friend’s older son is at Notre Dame, where apparently the no-alcohol rules are not enforced, and there’s a big drinking culture. Sounds like Santa Clara is trying to combat that.</p>
<p>My older D is at LMU, and she can’t drink for health reasons. That meant she dropped out of a club she started out with freshman year, because partying was a major component. But there wasn’t a lot of drinking in her dorm, and she had no trouble finding sophomore suitemates who are not party animals.</p>
<p>You have to look at the culture and the big picture. For example, Swarthmore has one of the lower binge drinking rates you’ll find, well below the national average. It averages no more than a couple of alcohol transports a semester – 3 one year, 0 another – compared to double digits even high double digits at some peer schools. Yet, this isn’t the result of enforcement. Alcohol is available every weekend at campus parties. There’a pub night with beer kegs and music on Thursday night. You can have beer in your fridge in your dorm room.</p>
<p>Each dorm votes on a guiet hour at night – usually around 10:30. My daughter said that they more or less abided by it. Not perfect, but generally speaking. </p>
<p>The last time a sub-free proposal came up, the Deans agreed to offer a trial run. They had one stipulation, though. Anyone signing up had to pledge to be substance-free period. They did not want students going off to drink and trashing somebody else’s dorm and then coming back to a their dorm with no accountability to where they were drinking. That’s actually a pretty sophisticated way to look at the issue – which is really one of being respectful and responsible to your own dorm and the people who live in it.</p>
<p>Some problems that I have heard about schools like Santa Clara are that after they initiate these type rules, the kids go off campus and drink and that is when the bad if not deadly drinking and driving occurs. I would far prefer the drinking to take place on and about the campus than off campus. </p>
<p>Bottom line is there will always be a contingency of students that drink. If your children do not like drinking then they will seek out kids that don’t. There is less and less pressure for kids to drink at colleges these days. We are becoming more tolerant all around and therefore there is less pressure to push people into something they don’t want to participate in.</p>
<p>I agree with interesteddad in that some schools like Swarthmore have less problems with drinking when they have alcohol available. Perhaps that is why many foreign students don’t go crazy with it.</p>
<p>Ironically (because he is pretty unhappy about his situation right now), my S did not sign up for the sub-free dorm, because it was labeled as a “health” dorm (or something to that effect, I forget the exact title). He is in no way a health minded kind guy (in terms of diet or exercise) so he dismissed the idea when requesting dorms. He has since found out that it is essentially a sub-free dorm (retitled) and is kicking himself because he has the misfortune to be in a heavy drinking dorm (it seems a matter of luck to some extent–some dorms seem to have more drinking than others). He is considering trying to transfer to Swarthmore, which might be a better fit, he thinks. But he’ll see–if he finds his niche of kids by Christmas, he’ll stay put.</p>
<p>My son had a sub-free dorm for 2 out of 3 years and liked it. Some kids drank but not in the dorm. It was much quieter. Sometimes he said, whether at another dorm or another college, the students would get so wild, it was scary. There is something to be said for a wild, drunk and “lost all boundries” group in your dorm. They tend to not only make a mess, but be inconsiderate of not just other students, but property. The amount of money some dorms owe at the end of year is really high and I was happy to always have my son’s very low.
My daughter’s didn’t like that some colleges like Providence and St. Joes’ only had “we match roommates” not sub-free, because you can have a like-minded roommate, but a noisy party dorm and not much peace and quiet. Nothing is perfect, but you have to weigh the type of school, reputation for parties, etc. and hope for the best.</p>
<p>How do we find out about the binge drinking reps of various schools?</p>
<p>a parent of three now college grads tells me they saw a big correlation between schools in more remote locals vs schools in areas with more constructive things to do…also all three of her kids had sports so they had hw and pratice and a pretty full schedule.</p>
<p>Ironically–drinking was practically a sport when I where I was in college…before they named it binge drinking. And 18 was legal…</p>
<p>So as much as things have changed in 25 yrs or so…they remain…</p>
<p>drbruns - subfree and wellness dorms are generally much quieter. My kids really, really liked that. I think getting used to the constant noise is a frequent complaint of freshmen.</p>
<p>Actually, asking students on a tour probably won’t give you accurate information. Questions about “binge drinking” are on every national survey administered by colleges. The question is “How many times have you had five or more drinks on one occassion (four for women in some surveys) over the last two weeks?”</p>
<p>Have done so once gets counted as a binge drinker. The national average is 44% of college students. More than twice gets counted as a “frequent binge drinker” and that number is typically hafl of the binge drinkers.</p>
<p>A college at or above the national average is going to feel like a heavy drinking school in ost cases. The real disruption comes from the frequent binge drinkers. A low binge drinking school (the women’s colleges and others like Swarthmore, Pomona, and so forth) might have 33% binge drinkers, 33% light/occasional drinkers, and 33% non-drinkers. This gives the light and non-drinkers a strong, even dominant, determiining presense on campsus and shift peer pressure/community standards against frequent binge drinking.</p>
<p>A school with a 50% binge drinking rate is likely to have a full quarter of the students getting plastered drunk more than once a week. That is a very oppressive culture for light and non-drinkers.</p>
<p>I think that a belief that a school can control drinking or other substance abuse is naive. The best bet is to live off campus with like minded individuals.</p>
<p>When you tour campuses if you can visit on a weekend use your senses. Look for empties, smell the bathrooms etc. </p>
<p>Sub free housing was a bit of consideration for mine but neither chose a sub free dorm. One chose freshman honors housing and that sort of self selected for less partying but it still goes on. The other is in regular frosh housing and there is no more or less partying that goes on around her than at most other college campuses in similar living situations. Both of my Ds are slow to warm up and reserved but neither reports any sort of trouble finding sober things to do or people to do them with.</p>
<p>Drinking happens on college campuses. The best way to circumvent the problem will be for your S to find like minded kids either in his sport or in other venues around campus. The opportunities are out there but have to be sought out sometimes.</p>
<p>Something to consider for some people… When I was applying to colleges out of high school, I was planning to go to a particular school and wanted to live in their substance free housing. But I talked to a bunch of students that go there and was informed that a lot of the people who choose to live there are more conservative than the rest of the population, too, in areas besides just drug use. So, if possible, that is something to research if that would be something that would make your kids more/less comfortable. At the time I wasn’t sure if I liked that idea. I have had lots of friends that are more conservative than me but we never seemed to click on the same level as my other friends… I think they seemed a little sheltered to me, and I seemed a little barbaric to them!</p>
<p>(Though once I did move into a regular dorm a few years later I realized I’ve grown into someone MUCH more conservative than I would have expected!)</p>
<p>I wish everyone, whether teetotaler or binger, could somehow meet in the middle and learn to enjoy alcohol responsibly. Our culture has polarized this issue so much, and it is too bad. Getting drunk every weekend is not the answer, of course, but perhaps neither is the whole “just say no” mentality. </p>
<p>In our experience, once kids reach 21, the whole thing becomes much more civilized, because they can then go out and have some drinks at a restaurant, club or bar. I think it would help the dorm situation to lower the drinking age to 18!</p>
<p>One of my kids cannot drink at all due to various health problems. She doesn’t tell people that is why she doesn’t drink. She hasn’t run into any problems socially because she can’t partake. Some of her favorite people drink, and she would regret not having gotten to know them on that basis alone.</p>
<p>Unfortunately a lot of college drinking isn’t “normal” to me. I never really liked drinking myself, just would have a few beers and even that, I gave up by 30. My children don’t want to drink (at least now) and don’t understand why you have to learn to like a drink. They like Pepsi, they liked it the first time, cultivating a like for a drink, that is not legal for them or taste good, seems silly. I have to agree with them, why have to learn to like something you don’t even like the smell of now? For some, they might like the feeling they get, the buzz, but we all know it’s not usually kept under control. Sober students looking at a guy with a hose in his mouth guzzling bear or stumbling over his things to vomit on the floor isn’t attractive. I don’t think most student partying on videos is attractive when it’s out of control. “Getting used to that” might be necessary to some degree, but liking it, is something else. I don’t think that anyone should have to tolerate some of the things students have to tolerate today, especially for the money they are spending.
As my niece told her roommate, I am paying almost 9,000 for this room and I should have a say in what goes on here, same as you. (she became an accountant later) : )</p>
<p>fogfog: I know you haven’t asked this, and I think I mentioned it on another thread, but a friend has a sophomore at Colby in a substance free dorm for his second year and he hasn’t seen any drinking in his dorm I don’t think. He’s very, very happy there.</p>
<p>My kid, who is twenty, went to college hating alcohol. He said he hated the smell of it. He attends a school that is known as a binge drinking school – rural and isolated.</p>
<p>It’s very academically rigorous so the kids can’t drink all the time and succeed, and i think there are many Friday classes, so they certainly don’t start weekend festivities on Thursday night.</p>
<p>He never felt a problem when others were drinking. He enjoyed helping people who got into difficulties.</p>
<p>And now he can drink an occasional beer. I think that’s a good thing.</p>
<p>We had a vegetarian household for many years. We had a private reason for going back to meat on a limited basis. I am also happy when I see him eat a hamburger, which he wouldn’t do for many years – only chicken fingers. </p>
<p>I like the idea of him fitting in. I wouldn’t say that about crappy fast food every night or binge drinking or a lot of drinking, but a limited number of Whoppers and beers, just means he can go more places with more people and fit into more situations.</p>
<p>Since he’s a violin playing, Classics major I think the nerd factor is so high already that i am glad to see him loosen up a bit.</p>
<p>“In our experience, once kids reach 21, the whole thing becomes much more civilized, because they can then go out and have some drinks at a restaurant, club or bar. I think it would help the dorm situation to lower the drinking age to 18!”</p>
<p>When and where I went to school, the drinking age was 18. It didn’t make any difference whatsoever.</p>
<p>What schools–other than women’s colleges and religious colleges–have comparatively lower binge drinking rates? I am committed to being a non-drinker but am quite the opposite of conservative; I just have picky taste buds (no coffee, very little tea) and like being in control of myself.</p>
<p>Someone should start a list. I hear Swarthmore and Pomona mentioned a lot… others?</p>
<p>I gotta say my friend’s son left his substance-free dorm at the U of R because all the kids in treatment lived there, and several were relapsing.</p>
<p>Keilexandra, urban schools on average have less binge drinking, as do schools with more Asians, schools where students are less affluent, schools with few or no fraternities, and schools that don’t have a strong spectator sport culture.</p>
<p>When I was in school --the drinking age was 18</p>
<p>and binge drinking wasn’t a name–
drinking for us was a sport-- so 4-6-8 solo cups of beer, long necks --whatever…
you could drink for 10 cent drafts, 25 cent long necks…</p>
<p>and nothing changed from year to year to year…frosh to sr…</p>
<p>When we lived in Europe–I noted it is FAR less fashionable to drink to excess–and our oldest boys was given spumante at a birthday party for a 10 yr old…
There isnt a drinkin age per se–but its considered bar form in Italy where we lived…</p>
<p>Our S is committed to good health, educationm athletics, abstinence…and we support that.
He and Tim Tebow may be the only college boys who are not drinkers and are virgins but thats fine…</p>
<p>Better to be true to himself than choose to participate in something he doesnt believe in…</p>
<p>He has a great future ahead of him and that he is even thinking about navigating the college binge drinking of friends and how to handle their choices vs his own is admirable.</p>
<p>Frankly while some say that our kids learn so much out of the classroom etc(true–both good and bad) and how the whole college experience is a growing thing (also true–I feel alot younger than I am)
–I think they forget that MUCH of that “growing” mis-behavior is not something one writes on a resume or puts in an headline “above the fold”…</p>
<p>Wish I had made some of the better choices myself ;o) but substance free dorms didn’t exist then …
The first day I got to my campus–later in the afternoon after mny parents had left…a sophmore came over–and said “let’s go to happy hour”…
“What’s a happy hour?” I ask…</p>