Substance-free housing and choosing a school

Parent Cafe
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<p>Sorry the whole lets lower the drinking age to make the problem go away argument is hogwash to me. You will have the same behavior or worse . Actually look on some other threads and there are parents here who have condoned high school students drinking. </p>

<p>Some kids will drink no matter what the drinking age is. Some parents will condone and actually support it no matter what the drinking age is. Non-drinking students will continue to struggle to find like people in colleges filled with those who imbibe far too much.</p>

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<p>We have been conducting a sort of controlled experiment with the drinking age for quite awhile, since Ontario and Quebec have drinking ages of 19 and 18, respectively, and places like the Universities of Toronto and Waterloo and McGill University not only resemble American universities but have a sizable number of American students. They are all diverse, more or less urban universities without really substantial sports cultures (but some).</p>

<p>I have no idea what the statistics are. My impression from friends and relatives who have recently attended or currently attend them is that there is a lot less drinking culture there than at equivalent American universities. (Although on Day 3 of her McGill orientation four years ago, my daughter’s BFF – not an abstainer – called to say she had joined the Communists because they were the only campus group not serving liquor, and if she never spoke to another drunk boy again it would be too soon. Things calmed down within a few weeks, however, and the boys got coherent enough to be entertaining again.)</p>

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<p>Even when students select substance-free dorms on their own (and aren’t just pressured by parents) there can be a different feel to the dorm community when the majority of the residents have been non-drinkers (or drug-users) all of their lives as opposed to the substance-free dorms that are primarily populated by former abusers who are trying to stay clean and sober. </p>

<p>In many cases–and especially at large and diverse universities–the wellness dorms may include a mix of both groups. But when investigating specific living situations, it’s important to ask if the population falls pretty squarely into one of these camps and not the other, for this can affect a student’s comfort level in the dorm considerably.</p>

<p>Also, at large universities in particular, “theme” dorms (e.g., foreign language, community service, etc.) are rarely dubbed “substance-free” but often attract students who aren’t heavy party-goers and whose priorities tend to be more academic.</p>

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<p>I think that can be true about themed dorms. </p>

<p>My son was in a sub-free dorm and loved it. I guess it depends on the college, but the tales of former-abusers populating sub-free dorms seem a bit exaggerated to me. I wonder if it isn’t something embellished for parents by kids who are making an argument for living in social dorms, or else just that experience of a kid here and kid there who fits the description because it’s an interesting bit of drama. I also think parents repeat this because it’s a way to rationalize why their own kids don’t want to live in an alcohol free (or alcohol reduced) environment when the main reason is their kids just think it would be uncool to do so. But that’s just my take.</p>

<p>Anyway, my D lives in a themed dorm – the “honors dorm” – and it’s not identified as sub-free, but there isn’t much drinking in that dorm.</p>

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<p>Stupid question: Are the non-substance-free dorms at least non-smoking? Are most dorms non-smoking? And are non-smoking rules generally followed and enforced if not followed?</p>

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<p>I think that at this point:</p>

<p>All dorms are non-smoking.</p>

<p>Compliance probably varies from place to place, but I think there is more compliance if you are looking at tobacco than at other things college students may smoke. Ditto enforcement (but I don’t think anyone has an “anything goes” practice, especially if other students complain).</p>

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<p>Ive never encountered a dorm that wasn’t nonsmoking, on top of being annoying I imagine they’d be concerned about a fire hazard. College students are stupid about things like that.</p>

<p>My school, as well as having all dorms designated nonsmoking, also makes an effort to only place nonsmokers with other nonsmokers, and tries to place people who are allergic together to avoid the likelihood of someone beginning to smoke after being placed with an allergic student. That was a lifesaver for me, living with a smoker even if they don’t smoke in my presence would make me constantly ill.</p>

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<p>Williams has no themed dorms, and the entry system is one of its hallowed traditions – twenty to twenty-five frosh, two sophomore JA’s (unpaid student big brother and sister who want to be there for mentor students) and a lot of planned group (non-alcohol related) activity.</p>

<p>There were some on his entry who drank, athletes who totally abstained, athletes who drank, virgins, non-virgins, very rich kids, hipsters who smoked pot, kids who just sat in their rooms studying, and kids who just didn’t drink.</p>

<p>My S fell into the last category. And some of the other more abstinent ones too. Not going to invade his privacy. </p>

<p>He did not drink.</p>

<p>He did have a drunk girl crawl into his bed looking for the bathroom, and he escorted her out and helped her find the bathroom after grabbed some of his Latin textbooks and threw up right next to them where she placed them on the floor in the hallway.</p>

<p>He 1) did not get involved sexually; 2) did not freak out or disapprove of the girl but did counsel her the next day to drink less and she listened 3) did not become her drinking buddy and 4) did not use his Latin text books for week until he got the courage to pick them up off the floor and to find out they were unsoiled.</p>

<p>What do I think of this? I know some mothers of sons are very considered that their boys will be accused of sexual impropriety in this situation. They were all friends in the entry, and thankfully this did not happen.</p>

<p>I think it was all fine, except for the poor girl and her embarrassment. However, having such a sober fellow at the end of the hall was really a godsend to her.</p>

<p>Being a good samaritan made him feel good.</p>

<p>Having a witness helped the girl get the entire story of her behavior (she was so wasted that she blacked out) and made her vow to drink less, a vow she kept.</p>

<p>Witnessing the scene made my son vow never to get drunk. A vow I think he’s kept.</p>

<p>And, as I’ve said, being around kids who drink nudged him into having a beer once in a while. Many of you might not agree, but I think this was good.</p>

<p>Does this mean he would have been uncomfortable in a substance free dorm? Probably not. It probably would have been fine for him. However, I don’t think he would have asked for one (not his style – doesn’t want to make waves or, I suspect, be seen as tne nerdy goody-goody he is) so he would have been left housed with even more drinkers.</p>

<p>I think many other options can work – I am not an apologist for Williams’ entry system. However, I was pleased that S got close to cross section of the entire community, became comfortable with everyone, and has maintained friendships with many kinds of people.</p>

<p>Mine is just one point of view. Nothing normative about it.</p>

<p>Binge drinking is obviously a health risk, and a serious one.</p>

<p>Having said that, I got obnoxiously drunk at 17, my first year at college, drinking Southern Comfort and trying to be Janis Joplin, and I think that was the last time I drank when in college and hardly ever drink now – maybe three glasses of champagne a year.</p>

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<p>Perhaps a Christian school: Liberty, Messiah, etc.</p>

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<p>“Sorry but the whole let’s lower the drinking age to make the problem go away argument is hogwash to me.”</p>

<p>I was leaning in that direction, until I talked about it with my husband. He pointed out that unless the kids have a huge leap in growth in judgment between the ages of 17 and 18 (doubtful) there could be huge cost in human lives, since the drunk driving statistics of teenagers is so abysmal. They are simply not able to calculate risk at that age. So any experiment to find out if kids drinking at 18 would be more “civilized” than they are now could have terrible consequences.</p>

<p>In addition, I believe that several European countries with lower drinking ages than ours have even higher rates of alcoholism. What is the age in Britain? I have been reading that several cities there have been having tragic problems with out of control drinking, of the sort we are seeing on campuses today.</p>

<p>I do find it amusing when kids who have been drinking since high school, with or without parental approval, so much more vastly sophisticated than their greenhorn non-drinking peers, feel qualified to give advice to them as to how to fit into college life today. Let’s just hope they invited some of these poor social misfits to chauffeur them to and from the parties where they built up this admirable resume.:)</p>

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<p>My kids have told me that bingeing among peers occurs partly because the drinking is surreptitious, so there is pressure to finish whatever amount of alcohol was “scored.” This may be more true in high school. High school kids are not going to leave alcohol in the woods, unconsumed,and they aren’t going to leave evidence in homes or cars. </p>

<p>I have seen alcohol stored in college rooms, so perhaps the pressure isn’t the same there. </p>

<p>Nevertheless, it is true in my 23 year-old son’s case, that he now very much enjoys ordering an alcoholic beverage before a meal or with a meal, when he goes out with co-workers, and he told me he thought many of his friends’ drinking habits calmed down once they were legal.</p>

<p>I make no pretense of having studied this on a larger scale. Some college presidents are pushing for the age to go down to 18, but I certainly can imagine what some of their motives are.</p>

<p>My son, when he first went to college, carefully drank 2 oz of liquor or one beer per hour, because, before he left, I told him that his body could metabolize that much in that amount of time. He played with it a little, I’m sure, in his mathematical way, but I don’t think he made a habit of overdoing it.</p>

<p>In general, I have been bothered by the alcohol education done in public schools, at least in our area. Too rigid, and the program sets it up so that the kids either don’t drink, or they binge. I do wish (and of course this is not legal, unless done by parents in their own homes) that kids could learn, say, to handle a glass of wine with meal, starting in mid-teens, and get trained on how to drink.</p>

<p>Adults constantly predicting dire things from drinking, and the constant message that alcohol is somehow evil, can be counterproductive. I am wondering if some of the kids who want to abstain, have been educated that alcohol is “bad.” Alcohol has been used for celebration and connection throughout human history, and can be “good.” It’s a paradox, but it seems as if talking about it as a benign (though illegal under 21) substance, as parents, can help to moderate things a bit.</p>

<p>Anyway, I think my kids have met some great people who do sometimes overdo. My daughter, the one who can’t drink anyway, also “enjoys” helping other people out. She’s the one those boys upstairs call at 2 am to help them get back upstairs safely. If someone seems to be in trouble, she talks with them. But she wouldn’t want to miss out on knowing them otherwise. Some of them are very serious students, and quite interesting people.</p>

<p>Full disclosure, I really don’t drink at all, myself. Like my daughter, I now have allergies. But I do remember savoring the first glass of sherry that I was given by my parents at a holiday when I was 15.</p>