Suggestions for getting a low-cost undergrad degree abroad?

Applying to College
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My oldest is in HS 9th grade now, and I’m beginning to educate myself about college!
Recently saw Michael Moore documentary “Where to Invade Next?” in which I learned about the University of Ljubljana in Slovenia, at which foreigners can graduate with English language coursework for a cheap price. For us, Spanish coursework would also be possible.

My basic criteria would be

  1. safe country/city – don’t want to rough it! (i.e. not India, for example, bless its heart)
  2. cheap
  3. can graduate with coursework in either English or Spanish
  4. hopefully a notable U, or at least not UN-prestigious!
  5. interesting place is a plus
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My relative is at University of British Columbia. She’s happy and doing well. It’s cheaper than a comparable OOS option at many US places.

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German unis are tuition-free. A decent number have English bachelor’s programs now.

Some degrees at McGill are about in-state costs (McGill is a giant public with grade deflation, though).
Bard Berlin and the University Colleges in the Netherlands also teach in English and are about the same as in-state. But their majors are very general; they seem very much for preparation for grad school only.

Keio and Waseda have English programs, but the rigor of their English-speaking programs may be pretty lacking despite their names; you may actually have to go on exchange in the US to get a more rigorous education.

University of London International has some really cheap majors and degrees that you can do all over the world, but that’s because it’s almost entirely self-study. They’ll send you some reading material and you take proctored tests, but they aren’t really teaching you (in Russia, it seems that studying at a Russian university and also signing up for the UoL International programs is popular, because if you do well enough (and the honors level of your degree is entirely based on year-end tests), you may get a scholarship to a tuition-free Masters at LSE).

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Only the US seems to have such insanely expensive undergrad. I mean, $250 K now at the “select” ones? It no longer seems worth it, given the debt most would graduate with. We took our kids to see American unis and they were like a combination of Club Med and pseudo-aristocratic estates - I am sure an excellent education can be got in them, but the customer-coddling and politically correct cultures really turned us off.

We sent our daughter (as an EU resident) to a uni in the UK for literally about 1/4 quarter the cost in the US. We got our son French nationality (he was born in France and that’s where we live) because McGill has a deal with France, so he can get Canadian tuition rates (about $5K per year). French unis are all publicly subsidized as are German and Italian ones. You can find a lot on the web about these options. But I would recommend considering doing them in the local languages, though it would take a bit more time. You get a lot from living outside the US, new perspectives and culture.

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Most in-state tuition rates at publics in the States are comparable to or less than what the English/EU pay for English unis.

A big problem is that public higher education in the US is fragmented (thus why you have in-state and OOS rates) and most states have been starving their publics.

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Quest U in Canada – anything in Canada gives US a favorable exchange rate.

Echoing Germany as a place to go to school. There are hundreds of free programs AND really cheap German language courses before you start the other programs. Many are taught in English, though.
https://www.daad.de/deutschland/studienangebote/international-programs/en/?p=l&q=&fos=0&fee=0&sortBy=1&page=1&display=list

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I would strongly recommend that you have a look at the Netherlands, particularly Utrecht and Maastricht. Cheap tuition, great academics, very international students. Courses are in English.

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Aren’t the tuition-free German colleges only taught in German though?

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@philbegas: Mostly, but some have all-English courses/majors now. I can not vouch for the quality of the English, though.

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I would definitely look in Canada. Great universities, very reasonable prices, relatively safe cities, and the exchange rate is currently very favorable (or perhaps favourable) for Americans.

We found the small universities in Canada will cost about the same as our local flagship in-state university in the US. Our local in-state university (and the whole in-state system) is very good, but our flagship in-state university is very large. On the most part we haven’t priced out the larger (and better known) universities in Canada. The smaller universities in Canada are not well known, but there is information available on-line (such as the Maclean’s survey, which of course also covers the larger and better known schools).

One thing to look out for: Relative to the US, the top name universities (McGill, Toronto, UBC) are somewhat easier to get into than any academically comparable university in the US, but in general significantly more demanding. Toronto is probably comparable to MIT in terms of how hard it is to graduate from – probably more difficult even than Harvard or Stanford (I know people who went to pretty much any pair of these universities, as well as Toronto/Princeton, and their comments are quite consistent). Toronto is however much easier than MIT or Harvard or Stanford to get into. A significant number of students go to Toronto or McGill and find that it is academically too difficult.

At the larger Canadian universities (probably including anything that you have heard of) you are going to be treated as an adult. Dorms are optional. Drinking is legal at 18 in Alberta, Manitoba, and Quebec and 19 everywhere else. If you can handle the coursework great. If not there is help available if you look for it. If you can’t handle the course work and don’t go looking for help, or if you get drunk and don’t show up for class, in the larger schools that is your problem, not theirs.

I will admit that not including our in-state system, I am finding the US university system overall to be frankly rather deplorable and unconscionable in multiple ways. Admission seems to be pretty much random and academically-neutral. I see many examples where very hardworking, kind and considerate students who have gotten only A’s and A+'s in every subject always in their life get rejected, while students with as many B’s as A’s get into the same school. The pricing is insane and scholarships somewhat arbitrary. US students are taking on an amount of debt which is unconscionable. US universities advertise very aggressively to teenagers. After taking the PSAT, my daughter got multiple advertisements in the mail every day for more than a year (the ads tailed off a bit until she took the SAT, then resumed). One local relatively strong university sent her an ad in the mail every two weeks for more than a year – she tells me that she actually got more email ads from the same university than physical ads. Students are made to think that they have to get into the very top big-name universities, and to do this it is not enough to have straight A’s, they need mostly A+'s and also the right extra-curricular’s (not just any extra-curriculars, of course). The result is that our kids are under insane amounts of pressure. I have heard multiple reports of kids freaking out because they only got a 97 on an ordinary test. There are a lot of sleep-deprived kids, stressed out kids, stress-related illnesses, and Prozac being consumed in our high schools, probably particularly suburban schools.

As such I think that there are a LOT of reasons to go to university outside of the USA. Price is one reason. Getting a second view of the world is another reason. Applying to universities where you are just going to get in (or not) based on grades is another. If you have the grades you will get in, if you don’t have the grades then you want to go somewhere easier anyway, no stress.

Oh, and I agree with people who have suggested Netherlands and/or Germany. It is probably worth looking in other parts of Europe also (such as Sweden). Obviously language is something to look at carefully in each case, but I am told that some universities have sufficient classes in English. If the timing is right it might be worth checking out the University of Melbourne. Melbourne is one of the nicest cities I have ever visited, and a great university. Of course it is a long way away (as such better probably for graduate school).

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Great link, Dustyfeathers.
Thanks to all. I’m making a list of the suggestions.
You’ve also inspired me to surf around for Latin American Univs using world rankings as a guide. Generally most Latin American Us aren’t ranked very high, but some aren’t bad. If I’m reading right, seems like international tuition/fee at say Univ of Chile (Santiago) is about 2K (not sure if semester or year). Chile is a nice place, too.

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Isn’t Chile pretty backwards when it comes to women’s rights (relative to birth control/termination)

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An issue is that if your child wants to work in the US, save for a few universities, it’ll be quite difficult to find internships and jobs, as universities abroad don’t have a career center and may not be known. Some enjoy relative prestige and would thus ease her admission to grad school which she could then leverage for US jobs.
Another aspect is number of contact hours and level of academic support. Many universities there are sink or swim, with numbers such as 60% failing considered normal. For the American student, it can be dispiriting and, most importantly, while Europeans can just go to another school or start another program, for the US they’re considered failed transfer students and must go back to community college, which can be quite difficult to swallow for strong students.

There’s a lot going for the 3-year European degrees, but the students often need to know what they want to major in. If they change their minds, they have to start from scratch, and some countries have limits on how many times you can have do-overs. So you have to be sure you pick what you’re good at and what you love.
The Netherlands’ Liberal Arts Colleges are another option for students who aren’t sure of their major. Watch tomorrow’s elections though.
There’s also ESSEC International BBA, only for students who are interested in Business, it’s in Paris but it’s in English (it helps to speak some French but they provide lessons) and they’re trying hard to recruit international students. Tuition is 12K. Watch elections there too…

UK universities are often more expensive than instate choices for American residents and offer less in terms of amenities/career centers, outside of a few very prestigious universities. Attending a random midtier UK university will be LESS good than attending a midtier flagship due to lack of networking and career services, as well as tutoring and such. It will also provide less of a community feel witha majority of commuter students (again, talking about midtiers here, not St Andrews or Oxford) and outside of science will offer as few as 8-10 contact hours per semester the first two years, and fewer still later on.

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@MYOS1634: The ESSEC BBA sounds pretty neat! BTW, they also have campuses in Singapore, Morocco, and Mauritius.

How hard is it to get in there as an American?

Also, do you know of other English-language programs in France (where the teaching is at least decent; the reviews by Americans of the instruction and curriculum even at places like Sciences Po has not been great)?
Actually, I wonder how it is at ESSEC (which I know has a high reputation in the Francophone world).

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Pretty easy compared to their reputation, because they want to build a connection to North America, so I’m guessing Americans and Canadians would get relaxed admission criteria for a couple years. I don’t mean a B student would get in, but considering the regular level of selectivity, it’d probably be way easier than for Europeans. But I’m thinking a 3.5 and a decent SAT score (1350?) would be sufficient for now. There’s a special admission process and I assume some AP’s would be expected.
As far as I know, the teaching is better than at French universities and overall better than at Sciences Po.

If you want good teaching, I’d recommend IUT and BTS programs. The advantage of the BTS is that if the student doesn’t like it, they save their freshman status the first year. The huge disadvantage is that the program is in French only. if you like it, IUT’s lead to Masters in Engineering (total time: 2+1+3) and BTS to specific BS degrees in professional and applied subjects (2+1 or 1+2+1 depending on how many AP’s students have). Fees are like $200 and there’s no tuition, so it can be a cheap gap year/year abroad after high school.

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Good point, MYOS about the internships and job placement afterward. I can see that, if you expect to live in the US later in life, it is advantageous to graduate from a school here–but, like you say, there’s usu the possibility of grad school after undergrad here.

DadTwo, I agree that the system is getting very warped here, and I agree with your analysis. Part of the dynamic too, I think, is that parents are having fewer children and are taking each decision more seriously, perhaps too seriously. Also I think there is something like a “credit bubble” in student loans–one that has not burst yet.

This discussion also made me interested in learning about the Univ of WA international exchange programs (we live near UW), so I’ve just done that to find more details.

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FSU offers in-state tuition if you study abroad freshman year through them.

However, if you live in WA, you have a good in-state option at prices that aren’t too bad (and study-abroad programs may cost the same or less, though some may cost more).

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Came across a very relevant article on this same topic, detailing study abroad in a number of countries.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/education/edlife/a-guide-to-getting-a-bachelors-abroad.html
However, I also found that my local “mega-U” (Univ of WA) does have a variety of fairly affordable undergrad study-abroad opportunities, even some that are related to specific programs such as engineering. This may be the best route for us.

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If your child may want to go to med school in the future, evidently there is a problem with getting your undergraduate degree abroad because the med schools might not accept the foreign undergraduate work.