<p>I do feel kinda bad…these “hit and run” sort of postings imply a certain amount of nascent bitterness. Perhaps someone close to him has already met a musician?</p>
<p>^Or perhaps have plans to marry one. Perish the thought.</p>
<p>Toshtemirov, you are preaching to the choir.</p>
<p>We know the sermon.</p>
<p>Rats, my daughter just gave up pre-med at a great school to transfer to a music school. I better have her read that article right away, because I’m sure she’ll suddenly become as passionate about pre-med as she is about music. (Okay, I’m feeling a little snarky today.) </p>
<p>But seriously, Toshtemirov, we all ponder how to steer our kids into productive lives, but at some point we have to support them in their passion in the hopes that it will lead them to happy (and productive) lives, even if it wasn’t the life we imagined for them. And the poor kids that have to find the balance between their talents and interests and their parents desires for them … any kid with a non-musician parent has an extra struggle to convince their parents that music may not make them rich, but it will give them a path that they can be passionate about their whole lives. How many musicians have to live the life of corporate rules (engineers) or HMO’s reductions in doctor’s fees? Every career path has their pro’s and con’s, so you may as well pick one that you’re good at and that you are passionate.</p>
<p>Hello, this is my first post here, hope this is the right place to post. </p>
<p>I am the parent of an aspiring jazz musician, instrument trombone. He’s a high school senior and as this is the end of October, we’ve been feverish getting the college applications in, and planning audition dates. Neither my husband nor I have any experience with the music school application process; our older son was an engineering major and it was a lot simpler. We’ve found this music school process involves two applications (general and music school), in one case, compiling a comprehensive repertoire list and composing a music resume, and shoe-horning Jan/Feb audition dates into son’s already loaded regular schedule, as well as all the personal statements & essays son has had to write. Please excuse the venting :-}, it’s been a busy month!
Also, our son was not committed to a music career until end of sophmore year. I feel like we’ve been getting a late start in educating ourselves about music careers and music schools. I do think it is a good choice for him seeing as all his interests and extracurricular activities have been music, it is without a doubt his passion.
Anyway, he has applied to three in-state colleges who offer jazz studies: Michigan State, Univ of Mich, Western Michigan, and two out-of-state colleges: Indiana (Jacobs School of Music) and University of North Texas. He does want to apply also to Berklee, but we, his parents, prefer a university setting over a conservatory, and also want him closer to home (Mich). We made an exception for North Texas based on its reputaion for mainstram jazz, which is what my son is interested in.
Are there any mid-west colleges that we’re missing that have a superlative jazz department preferably combined with a strong trombone program? Also would welcome any comments about the colleges that he has already applied to. I have read the thread on Berklee, found it very helpful. TIA :-)</p>
<p>Welcome JazzTromboneMom! My son is also looking to study jazz trombone, though he is currently a HS junior. One school on his list that might fit your criteria is U. Cincinnati - CCM. I don’t know what CCM is like for jazz but we’re going to visit next week. He has a lesson lined up with the jazz trombone professor and will be able to sit in on a big band rehearsal. We’re also going to visit IU where my older son is a freshman studying jazz piano. IU has an excellent jazz program, and is one of very few schools that has a full-time jazz trombone professor. Also noteworthy for your son is that IU got no new jazz trombone students this year, so presumably they will be especially interested in admitting jazz trombone players for Fall 2011. My older S is very happy at IU , and is very pleased with the professors and the level of ability of the other jazz students.</p>
<p>It sounds like you’re in good shape on those applications. My son had barely begun at this point last year (now that was a lot of stress to compress into one month).</p>
<p>Thank you for your reply! Very useful information about IU and jazz trombones this year. I did speak to an IU admission person who told me the statistics for Fall 2009, 18 trombones accepted in the Classical area, and 2 in the jazz area. I find some admissions don’t want to tell you the figures. UNT, for instance. I had called for other application clarification and brought that question up as a matter of interest. She was rather tart about it and said she wouldn’t tell me since it had no relevance. Also at one point she said “just who is filling out this application, you or your son”. I was taken aback and felt, yeah I’m a bad stage parent, but later on, thought I’m the one who’s going to be paying the tuition, I think I have a right to be involved, and if I can get some questions answered during their business hours when he is in school or band and can’t call, what is wrong with that? Anyhow, just venting again! But I do find how I feel about a school is shaped in part by my contact with their admissions department…MSU, U of M, IU, Western so far all very pleasant to deal with.
Really good to hear that your older son likes IU! And will be interested in how your younger son likes CCM. Is your younger son planning on combining classical with jazz study on the trombone, and music education or performance?</p>
<p>JazzTromboneMom: You are not at all a bad stage parent: the admissions person needs some lessons in tact and perhaps needs to work through the whole admissions process with a child of her own. </p>
<p>There are many good reasons for parents to do some of the legwork; your child’s future and your bank account’s future are at stake. Often there are difficult or delicate questions to ask; some probing is necessary; and accurately reported nuanced answers are important. While our children will be on their own for these things once they enter college and they do need to learn to negotiate the adult world, not nearly as much is at stake once they are in: they will have secured admission and their scholarships by then.</p>
<p>While some parents do stand back and let their children handle everything, I think they are in the minority when it comes to highly competitive admissions like music admissions at top schools such as IndianaU and U of Mich. </p>
<p>As difficult as it is, try not to let the admissions dep’t’s climate influence your overall feel for the school. We found that there was often little correlation: schools which had wonderfully warm and supportive profs sometimes had a couple of real duds in the admissions office.</p>
<p>That’s helpful advice, violindad. My kids don’t like to call people on the telephone, but even if I can get them to do it, I can’t be sure that they will be assertive enough or ask enough follow-up questions. With the stakes so high, I just can’t leave it to them to handle everything.</p>
<p>JazzTromboneMom, my son is mainly looking to study jazz trombone performance as a major, but realizes that being well versed in classical music is important since a performing musician needs to be open to as many gigs as possible. One of his two in-state options only offers a classical performance major with a jazz minor. He’ll apply to that school since we need some financial safeties, but otherwise, he’s primarily interested in jazz.</p>
<p>We have just returned this evening from a concert of the SF Jazz Collective where S met trombonist Luis Bonilla. Bonilla told S to email him so that they chat about schools for trombone. S just put the picture I took of the 2 of them on his FB page.</p>
<p>Thank you, violindad, for the validation! I do think the whole music school application process is very work/research-intensive, I can’t imagine my son doing it without some help. Especially with kids intent on music careers, they are so busy. Besides keeping up their academic studies, they have their school band/orchestra, many times an outside-of-school music group, lessons on their instrument, maybe master lessons on their instrument in preparation for auditions, non-music clubs/activities, oh, and all the hoopla that goes along with being in your senior year in high school. Many times my son will fall asleep in the car, or on the sofa when he gets home from school. </p>
<p>Do you know by any chance if somewhere in these forums it is discussed how many music schools one should apply to? I remember one of my first conversations I had with a music school admissions person last year, and I mentioned how a very fine musician graduating in our HS did not get into UofM’s music school, and so settled for liberal arts, with intent on reapplying as a sophmore. He said you can’t control who your competition is or how many spots are available or if you mess up your audition, but you can apply to more music schools and thus increase your chances. But I think we’ve reached our on personal limit on applications and audition scheduling at 5 schools!</p>
<p>My son is the same way about talking on the telephone, I think they are young and inexperienced. Heck, it is a challenge to me, to remember what I’ve read on a college’s website, and keep the different requirements straight between each college. Also the follow-up questions, and the probing that violindad mentioned, sometimes is a dynamic process, you think of it while you are talking. Maybe some kids can do that, not mine, not yet.</p>
<p>Wonderful your son is getting contact with a professional jazz trombonist! When my son was a freshman in HS, a couple musicians from the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra who were in town came and spoke with his youth jazz group, one was a trombonist, Vincent Gardner, I believe. My son was a newbie to jazz at the time so didn’t go up and meet him personally (probably the college mentors did, though!). Son has been drifting away from classical trombone ever since caught the jazz bug but is gearing up for the classical audition that is required by most schools even if you’re majoring in jazz. And we’ve heard the same thing…if you want to make a living as a performer, you need to be versatile, and also the classical training helps you be a better player, period. So schools that have both a classical/orchestral trombone professor and require one to be part of their studio for the first two years even though you are a jazz major have an advantage in my mind.</p>
<p>The how many schools issue has been discussed a few times and violadad will probably come up with some references for you.</p>
<p>There are different philosophies that people have followed, for example applying to just a few highly competitive schools with the intention of taking a gap year or pursuing a different major if there were no acceptances vs. applying to lots of schools including some where there is a fairly high probability of acceptance (I hesitate to say “safety school” where an audition is involved) as well as a financial safety or two and perhaps a school or two where the student could be involved in music without necessarily majoring in it.</p>
<p>From my viewpoint, the limiting factor was the number of live auditions. My daughter did five of those and we were both pretty tired (I did all the driving and handled logistics so she could sleep and keep up with school work) by the time the last one was over. I can’t imagine us having done many more than that. Note that she originally applied to a total of ten schools, but planned to drop some of them depending on whether or not she was accepted by a school that offered a non-binding early review in December. When that acceptance came through, she immediately dropped four off the bottom of the list.</p>
<p>If you are doing recorded auditions, it may be possible to increase the number of applications if the same recording can be used for several of them. Note that conventional wisdom says that using a recorded audition when a live audition was possible can be a drawback both in terms of acceptance and scholarship money at some schools.</p>
<p>The “how many schools to apply to” question is a tricky one, especially for a less popular instrument with a specific focus. (My S is a jazz t-bone player who applied to dual degree programs last year). Part of the acceptance equation has to do with the number of other jazz trombone players applying to a school and the number already in the program. My S took a lesson with a teacher at one school who generously shared this information about his school and others. (It was the only lesson like this he took …).</p>
<p>Jazzkat - It’s wonderful that your S hooked up w/ Luis Bonilla! My son is studying w/ him at NEC and tells us that Luis is not only an absolutely amazing t-bone player but is a great teacher and all-around interesting, nice guy.</p>
<p>JazzTromboneMom, welcome. </p>
<p>Just a “heads up, FYI” about these pinned (or sticky) threads at page top. They are largely informational, and it’s often best to ask specific questions by starting a new thread or tacking on to an existing similar topical thread within the forum itself. </p>
<p>I agree with violindad’s assessment regarding parental involvement in the process, as the nuances of audition based admissions, teacher selection, program makeup, travel schedules add a multitude of additional layers to the undergrad application process. Seems that there are far too many items that may well slip through the cracks, and two, three or four heads are often far better than one. </p>
<p>I agree as well with not letting a single exchange with an admissions rep color the judgment of a program. It may or may not be indicative of anything. One thing that I tried to show my “kids” through the process was how to cut through bureaucracy and misinformation without stepping on toes or burning bridges, important life lessons for music school and beyond.</p>
<p>The magic number is elusive. I think a few of us old timers were a bit awed by a student from last year, with 14 acceptances reported. My personal take on the number is “just enough” to satisfy the individual and collective family need. You can under do it, and over do it. This is a case of one size by no means fits all.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/883420-auditions-dont-kill-yourself.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/883420-auditions-dont-kill-yourself.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/379897-number-auditions-applications-etc.html?highlight=number[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/379897-number-auditions-applications-etc.html?highlight=number</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/309522-auditions-there-magic-number.html?highlight=number[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/309522-auditions-there-magic-number.html?highlight=number</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/249741-number-schools.html?highlight=number[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/249741-number-schools.html?highlight=number</a></p>
<p>And a couple that may help as you go through this
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/901390-2010-collective-experience.html?highlight=2010[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/901390-2010-collective-experience.html?highlight=2010</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/892168-search-tips-other-insights.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/892168-search-tips-other-insights.html</a></p>
<p>Hello jtmom - my son is a freshman BM in Trombone Performance at Northwestern and the trombone program at the Bienen School of Music is amazing! He was accepted at IU as well on scholarship in addition to 5 other colleges. He auditioned at Juilliard but no acceptances/openings last year from what I hear on classical trombone, though. NU was his top choice school and we were thrilled he got in. The association with Mulcahy, Hawes, and Ellefson (P.E. - who is usually there one day a week but is there more this year while on sabbatical from IU) and their jazz tbone prof is a Lincoln Center Jazz trombonist. My kid is at the CSO performances at least once a week, some weeks twice. He is IN HEAVEN - truly a music conservatory-style program within NU which is just an amazing university. PM with questions if needed. My son turned down 5 full rides for NU - it is that good (and has even exceeded our expectations). We are from the deep south, so he actually went to the school farthest away from home that he auditioned at. Last year with 7 college apps + 7 auditions (with my mom passing away in January) and two national trombone events he played in - I was EXHAUSTED - so I understand what a hectic time this is for your family - wait until audition “season”!</p>
<p>Thanks all for the very helpful information! I wish I had discovered this site last year :-)</p>
<p>One of my problems is each time I hear of a new school especially in the midwest, I think should he be applying there? Just tonight at a band event I learned from a band parent that her talented saxophonist son who graduated last year is now going to Lawrence in Wisconsin as a dual music/science major and that he loves it, the jazz professor there won a Downbeat award, etc. So I’ll probably go to their site and see what I can find out about the trombone faculty.</p>
<p>But other than those occasions I think we (son & Mom & Dad) are satisfied with the applications so far. Some highly competitive schools and some schools with large jazz ensembles that could accomodate an extra trombone player if he/she good enough. And if he gets no offers then maybe that is telling us something. I’m also excited that my son is going to get the opportunity to tutor band at the middle school if the scheduling works out. We’ve really wanted him to consider music education and maybe he’ll find it to his liking.</p>
<p>Thanks violadad for those links, they all are pertinent to questions in my mind! And, yeah, I have to not let one person color my view of a school and get beyond that, set a good example for the kid 
There is a lot of bureacracy and red tape in life!</p>
<p>BassDad and t-boneParent, thanks for relating your audition experiences. It is helpful to know that yes, it is a difficult thing to do, all the driving, scheduling, taking off from school, and that I’m not underestimating it. t-boneParent sounds like you had some extra challenges, too. I’m sorry about your mother passing away, especially during the hectic time. Great that your son is at Northwestern, maybe someday our sons will cross paths in the professional trombone world :-)</p>
<p>BassDad, glad you brought up the recorded vs live audition. Son almost checked the “will be sending in recording” box on his IU application because he wanted to do Pit Orchestra this year for his high school musical instead, but Dad and I said you need to do it live, even if we have to fly you in, and you can get a sub for your part for one show.</p>
<p>JazzTromboneMom - good luck to you - hang in there and it is a very exciting experience as well as tiring. I wish your son the best and hope everything goes smoothly for him. There are simply some AMAZING trombone teachers across the country in our universities and conservatories.</p>
<p>Have you looked at the Lionel Hampton School of Music at the University of Idaho?</p>
<p>As someone from the Northwest with loads of family & friends who have attended and taught at U of Idaho - you should really look carefully at the music program (especially jazz) before considering it. On the plus side, it is small; however, it isn’t in the same realm as U of N. Tx, Indiana U, Northwestern, Oberlin, etc. with respect to the calibur and range of teaching. Also, Moscow is small and remote - the performance opportunities are extremely limited. Part of an exciting jazz conservatory is being exposed to all sorts of music and having the chance to play with many different muscians.</p>
<p>The places my S (also jazz trombone) really liked were Indiana U, Northwestern, Oberlin, McGill, NYU, and New England Conservatory.</p>
<p>Not true that Lawrence is a regional school - less than 30% of students are from Wisconsin, and NY and China tie for 5th place most students call home.</p>
<p>I’m very surprised at how so few people mentioned Florida State University.</p>