Haven’t checked in to the Music major forum for about 4 years, but glad to see some regulars still here giving great advice! (Hi @compmom!) Didn’t scroll through all 42 pages to check, but wanted to put in a plug for the BM program at the College of Wooster! DD14 was a Composition and Theory major there. Discovered she really loved Theory, and specifically Music Cognition, which falls under the Theory umbrella. She ended up with several fully funded assistantship MM offers in Theory, including FSU, University of London, UMass Amherst and Tufts. All schools were familiar with and praised Wooster’s music program. DD ultimately chose to attend UMass for her MM due to the work a prof there was doing in Cognition. Her current roommate did her undergrad at Ithaca, then got into Eastman for her Masters.
My DD is just wrapping up the PhD admissions cycle, and has had admission (fully funded with assistantships) offers from FSU, Northwestern, Ohio State, UCSB, and is awaiting a decision from Eastman after her interview.
All that is to say don’t overlook liberal arts colleges with good music programs. And DO pay attention to individual professors - DD would say that connecting with the right profs has made all the difference.
@Collegefortwins what great news. I have heard from others who were happy with College of Wooster. It is also one of the Colleges that Change Lives https://ctcl.org/category/college-profiles/ and it sounds like it lived up to that for your daughter. Good luck to her in choosing a PhD program among so many great programs! ps PM’ed you!
pps for others, note that this student found funded MM programs, probably with a verycareful search, so it IS possible (and is now doing a funded doctorate program).
Unless you’re part of Julliard Pre-College, acceptance into the Columbia Julliard Program will be very difficult. Case Western has a dual program with CIM, which is easier to get into if that interests you.
As we visited various schools, it was really helpful to get a feel of the school and the campus in general. We visited some in junior year and some as part of the audition rounds. I think the community feel is one of the most important factors in picking a school and helps students figure out where they will be most at home.
I confess I didn’t read all the replies, but as a research mathematician with the federal government I would like to add that several of my colleagues have double degrees in math and music. One was even a professional musician for awhile before deciding to complete a Phd in math (still freelances, too). Math departments tend to be larger than what would be needed only for their majors and a result of that is that they often take good care of their own.
Computer science is a much harder degree to double with music. Too many time consuming projects. Classes are often difficult to schedule (meaning will conflict with times for music classes). This can be true for any major though. Computer science departments at the big state schools are over-enrolled, so those departments are not likely to work with the student and will happily boot the student over a bad semester.
Another 'College That Changes Lives" is Lawrence (College and Conservatory) in WI. The conservatory is warm and friendly with an emphasis on creating “real world applications.” The school highly encourages double majors, minors, creating one’s own program, etc. And the people are just so amazing–including the very strong alumni network. We ended up going with another school in the end, but it was very difficult to let go of this amazing school.
your posts are all very informative. We are new to this area. Thank you for the sneak peak into the curriculum. My S (rising HS junior) is into string bass and would like to continue with a performance major in college. At the same time, S does not want to lose touch with sciences (usual suspects like physics, chem…) and math while in college. Are there any schools that would give the BM students an opportunity to take non-music academic classes from the college of letters and sciences?
As compmom mentions, if BM curriculum has 3/4 of the classes from Music, what type of general ed classes the BM students get to take? Physics, Chem, linear algebra?
Some conservatories don’t require math or science for gen eds. Your son might be better off at a school of music within a university, or doing a double degree (not double major) at a liberal arts college or university with a BM. The other option is to major in math or science and continue lessons and extracurricular performance (many schools will give credit for these).
Double majoring is tough with music and science. I have heard of people doing it, but both majors are intensive and foundational, with set sequences of courses, and there can be scheduling conflicts with labs and rehearsals etc.
Have you or your son read the Double Degree Dilemma essay closer to the top of this forum? It can be helpful. It details the different ways to study music, and uses hypothetical individual examples to help clarify.
For double degree, there are many possibilities . a few LAX examples are Oberlin, Bard, Lawrence, Ithaca, Tufts/NEC, Harvard/NEC. Larger universities with schools of music are also possible, including Michigan, Northwestern, USC, BU…many more.
@common, thank you for the detailed response. He would.like to be part of a university ( definitely not a conservatory) and passionate about performance want to continue the learning in math and science, not necessarily to have a minor or a double major in math or science field. Just looking for school that gives the ability to take course work in those fileds for performance majors. USC is a good option. Recommendations for any other LACs and other state schools like Ucs?
@tugogi Not a music major, but Vanderbilt is a strong undergraduate school that allows students to study across the four schools (Blair School of Music, Engineering, Arts & Sciences, and Peabody.) I believe there is an audition process for Blair.
Although extremely competitive, Vanderbilt does meet full demonstrated need, so run the financial aid calculators if interested.
Oberlin would work. Bard requires a double degree of BM students. Oberlin also has a new Musical Studies degree that would allow for more non-music coursies.
If total number of credits is 120, and 80- 90 of those are music, hypothetically, you need to research how many credits are required gen eds. There may be very little room for math and science electives, even if he is at a school that has them on campus.
Gen eds will usually require at least some English composition, as well.
UCLA’s School of Music is a BA, not a BM, so there might be some extra room.
I think Oberlin is a really good option.
He can also consider doing a BS in math or science and doing lessons and performance. OR a BA in music with more room for other classes. (I know a kid who did physics at Tufts but continued music at a high level, without the double degree). Or a double major, double degree, major/minor.
A BM often doesn’t have that much room for other classes but maybe someone can come on and share how they did it. Math would be easier than science since science has labs.
You will have to look at required courses for the BM, and the required gen eds, and figure out how many credits remain, then look at math and science courses to see how many credits they carry. Also, he could spend an extra semester or year maybe-?
@tugogi Just wanted to clarify that I AM not a music major; Vanderbilt, on the other hand, DOES HAVE A SCHOOL OF MUSIC. That might not have been very clear in my original comment.
You may want to try to get your hands on the “semester-by-semester curriculums” at different schools for different degrees. I found that enlightening. It really shows you degree expectations and time slots available for other course work. My D was also looking at theatre and when she looked at BA vs BFA on a 4 year semester-by-semester curriculum, she could really see the difference. She ended up doing a BS in music that allowed some additional study in theater. The curriculum guide helped her see exactly how she would be spending her time. There was very little wiggle room…but with a few AP courses…she was able to free up some time by replacing gen ed requirements with classes of her choice and a potential minor (that went down the drain as her performance time greatly increased one critical semester and she actually was encouraged to drop her credit hours for her first opera performance…which she did). So, just know that even the best researched plans can still change…which was fine in my D’s case.
As explained above, if he takes AP courses and the tests, he may be able to knock out some gen ed requirements in English, History, Science etc freeing up time in his schedule for classes of his choice. But schools differ on AP course policies so you should check each school. Be aware that Music Theory AP may not get you out of the music schools theory class requirements (but may give you credits towards graduation).
If you can’t find the curriculum guides or AP rules (by spending hours on each school’s website hunting them down) just contact music admissions and they should be able to help you.
@compmom A lot of private schools/top state schools won’t accept CLEP exams. Dual-credit should transfer to any public school (private schools tend to require a signed statement from your school or CC that it didn’t apply towards HS degree requirements, meaning dual-credit wouldn’t be accepted,) even if just as elective credit. AP/IB exams are your best chance at getting credit at any school.
@bridgenail suggestion is a good one. Many or most schools do have those semester by semester degree plans and that can give you an idea of what will fit. My son is music Ed. The degree plan is four years, which includes a bunch of summer classes two summers out of three, just to fit everything in. It does include the university core curriculum, which is basically one class in each major category (not lots of exploring). We were told most students take 4.5 or 5 years to graduate With a BMEd, not four. It has become apparent to us why that is.
So. Many. Required. Classes.
My son does not want to explore coursework outside of music, but he does want some coursework from a second concentration within music. In addition to a few AP and dual enrollment credits towards that core curriculum, my son placement tested out of class piano and some theory and aural skills coursework, and this has freed up space for a few extra classes. It’s very tight, but a year and a summer in, he’s still on track to graduate in four years. I still wouldn’t be shocked if it ends up being 4.5.
All that to say, it’s certainly not impossible to do something in addition to that BM degree, but it might take more time, and as others have said, some schools make it easier than others. Time management is important.
Our state university accepts many CLEP exams, as does the private school my daughter goes to. So I would change “can” to “may” in my previous post.
With music and science, even if you can fit it in somehow, there can be major scheduling issues. Labs versus rehearsals, practice, performance, lessons. But there have been a few on this forum over the years who managed it.
@Compmom, Picachurocks15, Bridgenails and Parentof2014grad,
Thank you thank you. Semester by semester degree plan is an option to explore. The discussion is highly educating for me. This is our first one and wants to pursue music…
@compmom, you are right, S may have to spend an extra sem or year to fit in any science or math classes if he wanted. Bard is a good option… I think more options will open up, if we consider conservatories since some colleges have dual programs with conservatories like John hopkins and Peabody, Harvard and NEC… But they are extremely hard to get admission into.
TUGOGI : Very important for your son to look into who the bass teacher is at the colleges and universities that might work for him. My child is a high school senior musician currently applying. We spent the past few months researching schools. He finally decided not to apply to conservatory programs, because although he plans to major in music performance, he also wanted to be able to take academic and science classes, and said that even at Universities with excellent schools of music, he would be so busy with the music curriculum and practicing that he wouldn’t be able to take academic classes easily. So that ruled out conservatories, joint programs, and very highly competitive, highly regarded schools of music which just happen to be at Universities. But we started the entire process by looking at TEACHERS for his instrument - who was at which schools. For example, for his instrument, there was no one with whom he wanted to study at certain schools. This really narrowed the list. So TUGOGI - your son should be looking very closely at who is the bass teacher at schools with strong academics. It would be important for you that the school of music there has strong strings overall, too, since most people aren’t becoming solo artists in string bass. Just for an example - my son found out that the teacher for his instrument at a prestigious state flagship for which my son is a quadruple legacy, is unfortunately ill. That means that for the time my son would be there, he would be taught not by the professor, but by various musicians rotating through to cover for him. So my son is not applying there. Oberlin has strong academics and strong music, but isn’t particularly good in my son’s instrument. No go. There were a LOT of great schools that we eliminated because they weren’t great for my son’s instrument. Assuming that your son is already studying with the principal bassist in your local symphony, or with the bass teacher at the local conservatory, they can probably help your son in identifying who is at which schools. For us, we finally came up with a list that included a couple of flagship state schools, with fantastic teachers for my son’s instrument, same for McGill in Canada and BU, and Yale, and Harvard for long shot schools, because of Yale’s school of music, and a connection with Harvard (and kid already has a lot of musical connections in Boston, could probably arrange to study privately with someone at the Conservatories, and hopefully play with Boston Philharmonic Youth, and so continue with high level orchestral playing). Start with identifying potential teachers - it will greatly narrow your list.
