My S23 is considering a number of schools, but would like more options to consider. He is interested in schools with really strong research facilities and opportunities for undergrads and prefers an urban setting, but would consider other ‘interesting’ settings. He prefers to not attend schools in the south (we are in TN), but again, if the vibe/fit are there, he may consider. He is a 3.94 GPA student, who will graduate with approx. 11 AP classes/with 5s and all so far. He is interested in biological sciences, data science and D schools, like those at Stanford and MIT, but realizes those are far reach, just to give you an idea of what he really likes. He is planning to apply to: U of M Twin Cities, MIT, Butler, U Mich, Tulane, to name a few. He prefers medium-sized schools, over small. He really loves NYC and LA - Any other ideas out there?
Doesn’t fit your location preferences but if Michigan is on the list, check out Purdue.
I’ve never been to West Lafayette - how is it? Is it all Purdue, predominantly?
W Lafayette is definitely centered around Purdue but there are a ton of companies located there so it’s growing by leaps and bounds.
If research is important, your student would have countless opportunities.
It’s not Ann Arbor, but it’s a really nice community with a ton going on.
Any cost constraints? Any test scores? I though MIT was requiring test scores?
Pitt fits the bill. Tons of medical research. Always top 10 for NIH money. Only about 18k undergrads. Urban.
Case in Cleveland. I still think Boston offers the best college experience. Lots of schools to choose from.
Yes, cost constraints: merit will likely be only option for any aid, so looking to be around $40K-$50K/year max, all in, and would love it if some APs were actually granted credit to help ease the $$ burden. Test Scores: ACT 33; AP Scholar Award last year/junior year. I am also asking him to look at Pitt again. Will look at Boston as well. He is not hip on Cleveland.
It may not work out financially, but it’s worth looking at U Rochester. They’re super high with getting undergrads into research. It’s a culture there. I often wonder why students go there if they aren’t interested in research.
If you’re not in state Pitt might not work out financially either, but worth a look.
It doesn’t hit your size or urban but when I think research and merit, I think College of Wooster. I put a link below. It’s legit - know a Vandy prof whose kid went. They’re always linked with Princeton on some best research or research project type topics.
Truth is - you can do research most anywhere. But one needs to ask professors and seek it out. Some profs also send emails asking for people. I see it at both my kids schools (Bama and Charleston).
I am also in TN (Williamson County) and sought merit.
For LA, why not USC or a Loyola Marymount. For NYC and it’s not, but a Stony Brook. Boston - Brandeis. USC is unlikely - but - even admission will be unlikely but you never know.
So I read further - and you mention no need aid but need $40-50K - and this is the issue and why so many kids from here go to Bama - who buy the way has the Randall Research Scholars and you’d be under $20K a year. When you chase merit, you have to apply to the right schools - so the Stanford/MITs are no gos because they don’t have merit aid - and those should immediately come off the list.
A Tulane is unlikely to meet cost - but not impossible. I suggest you get the “guaranteed to meet cost” schools - so a UTK - so you have one in the bag.
The rest then are - maybe they don’t meet cost but they could. Example - a BU or Northeastern…far unlikely but not impossible. Just near impossible - to meet cost. But on the flipside, UMass Boston would…a Brandeis may, etc. WPI in Worcester will have research and has a Bio minor with Bio Technology degree. IUMASS Lowell.
Others you might look at like a Case Western or Rochester - unlikely to meet cost but you never know.
More likely would be - and maybe too small - but a Macalester in Minneapolis, UMN for sure as you’ve got, a Michigan State (Michigan is highly unlikely to award merit), a Pitt…Purdue was mentioned and it works at full pay as does Florida State, for example.
In the NY area - a Hofstra will work, Stevens, Seton Hall.
Pitt will be over and it’s hard to get merit - even with a 33 - you need to apply early. If you’re not applying to 20 schools, get their app in ASAP - in other words, just apply and see what happens (if you have spots left on the common app). Do a virtual session and they’ll give you (or did two years ago) a free app code.
Since you have Butler, how about a Dayton or U Denver.
Finally - they’re South but you’re not totally against - College of Charleston for urban and small. My daughter goes there - check out the Charleston Fellows Program. Charleston, the city, isn’t cheap but her scholarship is more than tuition. So it is cheap…for us. Not the highest rated school but the Fellows are all top students. And then U of SC and it’s Honors College. U of Arizona and Arizona State would both also meet your budget needs and have fine Honors Colleges - Arizona will “crush” your budget needs - you’d be under $30K. And U Denver, a private mid size on the outskirts of the downtown (a few miles from downtown) - will definitely hit budget.
These are the kind of schools you can afford. With budget issues and no need aid, that’s the first thing - we learned after visiting Gtown - no merit aid. That night in the hotel room, our list drastically shrank - I went school by school and found those that only had need aid and they came off. But you have to be realistic - at least one safety / assured hitting the $$ you need and then the rest - they have to at least have potential (like Pitt - unlikely to meet your budget but not impossible). A U Denver will. An MIT or Stanford shouldn’t even be on the list, reach or not.
Good luck
Since no FA, schools like MIT and Stanford will be full-pay at about $80k/year. UC’s like UCLA will also be full-pay. Most likely Michigan too. Run the NPC but most likely off the list.
Out-of-state schools like Pitt and Minnesota will probably be $50k/year. Merit odds are low. Your son’s stats are excellent but Pitt’s merit used to start at 1480/33 and that’s probably gone up since my S20 applied.
A few northern public schools like Ohio State or Michigan State offer merit.
Southern and some western schools will be cheaper.
Some private schools outside the T30 might offer enough merit to get around the $40-50k COA. Look at the Jesuit schools.
Public schools such as University of Utah and UT Austin might check the boxes, although the location may not align perfectly. Both would be above cost the first year, but have defined paths to residency for the further years. Additionally, both would be much more generous than private schools with the AP credit.
Thanks so much! You’ve given me several additional schools to research. Yes, we are trying to balance the hopes and dreams with the reality of the budget - not an easy task, as each school calculates aid differently, awards merit or need-based only, on and on with the differences. Thanks for helping us wade through!
I looked back at the threada - it was ramble - but that’s me - I was full pay and knew I wanted to be at $50K.
My daughter loved American. We expressed so much interest. She applied for the Douglas (full ride). They gave $15K. Need $30K but I know their max was $25K and I would have let it slide.
I had set her expectations - so she didn’t flinch that i didn’t let her have it in her selector set - and as much as she said she loved it. I’m quite sure she loved Charleston more.
One of her BFs at Charleston turned down Vandy, Rice, and Penn to go. The point is not to steer you there - but to let you know - there are smart, Ivy level kids at most every large college - they choose for a reason. So Michigan State doesn’t have the cachet of Michigan but I assure you many are there that could get into Michigan - they went for location, budget, major…whatever.
So don’t feel like not going to the most reputed means you’re not in a good place.
Just know that - you can retire one day - allowing for that is what is most important in your son’s school choice.
Hit me up PM for more ideas/thoughts.
With respect to undergraduate research opportunities, this site may be of interest: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/undergrad-research-programs.
That list is really off. Just going from the schools I know I’m amazed and wondering why they picked X and not Y.
Anything to sell magazines though, right?
Michigan is not going to be close to your budget and they are stingy with OOS merit.
Purdue full COA for OOS is $40-42K/year depending on what dorm your child picks.
Another caution about schools that grant a lot of AP credit. While it can help with having priority registration or freeing up space of a minor or concentration, in some majors, it won’t help in graduating early because of course sequencing.
Yes I would consider the University of Utah as mentioned above. Certainly within budget over 4 years with residency in years 2-4, and the possibility of some merit to reduce the OOS costs in year 1.
SLC is a great city and the campus is ideally placed 5-10 mins from the center. It is particularly good for outdoorsy students with amazing skiing 30 mins away and national parks in all directions. There are lots of research opportunities for strong, motivated students.
We found that quite a few universities gave enough merit to get the price down to this level. BU and Northeastern were the only two that either daughter applied to that did NOT get down to that approximate price range with only merit aid and with similar stats. However, the top schools (MIT, Stanford, Harvard, …) also would not give any merit aid at all. The same is true of the various campuses of the University of California.
Since you mentioned MIT in your original post I will mention the obvious: There is no merit aid, it is a reach, and it is a lot of work for students who go there. A different contributor to this web site described it as a “fit” school, and I think that this is exactly correct. It is great if you are an exceptionally strong student and you want to work that hard for a full four years (and if you can afford it).
However, quite a few other universities do appear to give some merit aid, including to out of state students at public universities.
One daughter attended a small primarily undergraduate university with very few graduate students (essentially the Canadian equivalent to a liberal arts college) and found a lot of very good research opportunities. One issue at a small school is that it is relatively easier to get to know your professors. Another issue at a liberal arts college (or equivalent) is that you are not as likely to be competing with graduate students for research opportunities. I think that you will find quite a bit of research goes on at a wide range of colleges and universities.
This of course suggests that you are likely to find a huge number of colleges and universities that are likely to fit your criteria, which does not make the choice easy.
Among schools that haven’t been mentioned yet (that I recall), I’d take a look at:
- DePaul (IL) in Chicago
- Loyola Chicago (IL)
- Loyola Maryland in Baltimore
- Marquette (WI) in Milwaukee
- New Jersey Institute of Technology in Newark, just outside NYC
- Saint Louis (MO)
- Seattle (WA)
- Suffolk (MA) in Boston
- Temple (PA ) in Philadelphia
- U. of Arkansas – as you’re from a state that neighbors Arkansas, there are some major discounts/scholarships available to make the price very competitive with your in-state publics. The Fayetteville/Bentonville area is increasingly popular and it’s a very different feel from “the south.”
- U. of Cincinnati – has a lot of coop emphasis, similar to Northeastern and Drexel
- U. of Kentucky in Lexington
- U. of Louisville (KY)
- U. of St Thomas (MN) in St. Paul
- U. of Wisconsin – Madison
Per this source, these are likely to fall within budget after merit aid.
Thanks! D23 has added Loyola Chicago and Marquette to the list to research further - Will look at more suggestions as well.
Also, thanks for sending the merit aid source, very helpful!