Summer Program for student w/unusual background

College Majors Music Major
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<p>I have an 18yo dd who has a highly eclectic musical background, having played a little piano and flute, with trumpet as her major ensemble instrument for the last 6 years. She has performed at and done well at state solo & ensemble festival for 3 years in trumpet solo & trio events. However, Irish traditional music became her musical first love several years ago, and she has played fiddle for a little more than 3.5 years. For fiddle camps, she would register as an "advanced" player, and she performs regularly in her own "alternative/folk/rock" group.</p>

<p>Dd let me know as we got into the college application process after the summer break that she has decided she really wants to study music. Without classical training on violin, she is hard-pressed to enter a college music program on violin, however. She really would like future classical training to support her growth as an alternative styles player- fiddle, jazz, improv- and is not aiming for orchestral performance as a professional goal. She has applied to and will audition at several schools and all the schools are well aware of her situation. The audition piece she's working on with her new teacher is listed as a Grade 4/(Class B?) solo & ensemble festival piece. </p>

<p>My question is: What summer programs would be most accessible to her & helpful in giving her a jumpstart on either getting ready for starting college music in the fall, or barring that help her prepare for a re-audition in one year should she not receive an acceptance in any college music school this year? In the summer she will be a 19yo, 2007 high school graduate, so programs that accept only rising 12th graders or younger are out.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>fiddlemom -- welcome to cc! I've got a couple of questions and your answers might help the combined wisdom on this board (and there is a LOT of it) help you out:</p>

<p>First of all, where is she auditioning, and does the piece she's currently preparing meet their audition requirements? Do you have a good sense of the competitiveness of the programs at these schools? Can your D's new teacher be helpful with suggesitons for summer programs? Is there a particular reason you're focused on the summer program option rather than more intensive one-on-one instruction to help her accelerate?</p>

<p>Good luck! My violinist daughter is a Junior, so we are at the beginning stages of this process.</p>

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<p>No idea of summer programs, but wanted to pass on a tip that may interest your D. The violin teacher at Denison, (Ohio), Andy Carlson, is an amazing fiddler. Has a band here in Georgia. He teaches mainly classical, but also teaches fiddle to any student who wants it. My D is very enthusiastic about applying there and that is one reason.</p>

<p>The music program isn't as advanced as some, and therefore, a violinist with less of a classical background might not be too disadvantaged. And I suspect Mr. Carlson would be excited to have a student who loves fiddle. You might want to send him an email (from the Denison web site) and ask if he knows of any summer programs in your area (or in general.) I'm pretty sure there is a program somewhere in TN/NC - Appalachian Mtn area - but I can't remember enough about it.</p>

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<p>orchestramom: Thanks for the welcome! I've been deliberately vague about where she's applied, partly for reasons that even describing her background will identify us to anyone who might have a clue who we are.</p>

<p>That said, I'll describe the schools a bit:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Large State University, National Tier 1- Top 30 or so music school- application in progress, interested for one particular degree program that is a bit different and may well fit dd's profile well. </p></li>
<li><p>Large State University, National Tier 2- Top 30 or so music school- application complete, haven't heard yet on academic admission but stats are above the middle 50%ile. Scheduled to audition for BA program.</p></li>
<li><p>State University, National Tier 3- accepted to university with honors program invitation & probable full tuition scholarship (probably coming in mail soon), music school has good regional rep. & one or two particular programs that would fit dd's interests well</p></li>
<li><p>State University, Regional Tier 3- application complete, waiting for decision, music school not known but feeds into #1 &#2 above for grad school. There is only one violin faculty member, though. </p></li>
<li><p>Private Liberal Arts University, Regional, Tier 2- accepted w/academic scholarship, audition is mainly for scholarship purposes</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Dd's new teacher is a recent master's grad of #1 and is very interested in talking with the dept. head about dd. Final submission of application is waiting to see if this person is interested.</p>

<p>In any case, the professors at these schools, and possibly her teacher, will be able to give us some guidance, I'm sure, but I thought I'd ask here for experience with programs that could work for students who are not at the absolute top level of development on their instruments for their age, yet probably do have signficant potential based on previous evaluations of general musical ability. </p>

<p>Any summer program will, of course, not influence the outcome of this year's admission audition, but would give her an intensive experience which would better prepare her for fall ensemble auditions should a school decide to take a risk and admit her to their music program. </p>

<p>What kind of structure would you be thinking of for intensive one-on-one? Her new teacher is giving her 1.5 hrs per week, divided on classical technique, improvisation, and theory. </p>

<p>Hopefully, this gives enough of a feel without giving away too many identifiers.</p>

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<p>binx: Thanks for the tip on Dennison. The school does have a bluegrass ensemble which would be fun! Dd hasn't done much with bluegrass- she's done mainly Irish tunes- but recently she has been experimenting with a wider variety of fiddle styles. </p>

<p>We have stayed away from the most selective private universities for financial reasons. Academically, she would be a reasonable candidate for all but the highest of the highly selective schools, but may not be a candidate for significant merit aid. We qualify for $0 of need-based aid but, based on our own budget needs, can only contribute up to the cost of the typical state university tuition, R&B without being irreponsible with our funds. </p>

<p>If we wanted to apply, we'd need to get on it this week though!</p>

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<p>FiddleMom,
My Q about goals for summer study really grew out of your description of your D's situation: it sounds like she has a lot of performance experience, as well as experience in audition-like situations (festivals, all-state, etc) and specialty summer programs. If her college auditions are successful (and it sounds like she's made thoughtful and appropriate school selections), it may be that the the most useful thing she could do to get ready for fall might be more in-depth work on technique, etc to move her playing up a notch or two level-wise. That would make her more prepared and more competitive for ensemble auditions in the fall. My thoughts for intensive independent study were along the lines of the kind of lessons it seems she's already having, plus LOTS of practice time. Among my daughter's orchestra friends over the last year or so, those who decided a little late to go the college music route and weren't quite ready, and those whose first round of auditions weren't successful and decided to take a gap year and re-apply, really spent that extra time doing intensive independent work with their primary teacher and perhaps some additional master classes, coaching etc.</p>

<p>You may have seen the very excellent thread here about summer music programs, and of course you have some experience since your D has done fiddle camps, but here is a link to a wonderful resource produced by Strings magazine: and it's searchable, so you should be able to enter various criteria and come up with some "likely suspects" of programs that might meet her objectives. Good luck to your Daughter!</p>

<p><a href="http://www.stringsmagazine.com/search/summer/index.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.stringsmagazine.com/search/summer/index.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Thanks for the link! I've seen a couple of other lists but this one has some programs I hadn't noticed before. </p>

<p>I guess part of my thinking about summer would be that it would give her orchestra ensemble experience and the daily practice in an environment where people are living and breathing music. She understands the dynamic of rehearsal in large and small ensembles from playing trumpet, as well as her own fiddle/folk rock group. But she needs to build classical violin repertoire, of which she really has none. I also think the experience of being with other serious musicians and the structure of the day would give her the collegial atmosphere that would stretch her and help her put her own experience into perspective. In a family atmosphere, especially in summer, there is less structure and no musical peers to encourage her on a daily basis. Not that she wouldn't practice, but it's not the same as being with other people who care about what she's doing and can give her feedback on more than a weekly basis. </p>

<p>But the only way this will work is to find a program- even a couple of weeks would help, I'm sure- that would have a repertoire level that is accessible to her, while still being serious. Do they exist? </p>

<p>I guess maybe I'm back to just asking the pros. I was hoping that getting some BTDT advice on particular programs- and the hope that someone out there has walked a less well worn path- would arm me with an understanding of the range of options available.</p>

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<p>Your thinking makes a lot of sense, but I'm not sure the ideal program that fits her needs, level of playing AND age-group exists. That's why I thought the searchable database at Strings might help. In terms of building the basic classical violin rep, it takes a lot of effort and independent practice time. Ensemble playing can enrich that of course, but it does not build the same skills. </p>

<p>You mentioned your d's new teacher is working on classical technique, improv and theory -- are you including sight-reading practice in her studies as well? That's a critical skill that will also help accelerate her playing level (especially for ensembles). Can you share what the level 4 piece is that she is working up for auditions? And what etude book she's using?</p>

<p>Our BTDT experience: my daughter has done several summer programs, in addition to years of experience in a competitive youth orchestra. In middle school she was in programs where the kids were typically playing at level 5 and above. By high school, they were at level 6 and up. The summer programs also tended to be playing at a higher level than her strong youth orchestra (even though their required levels were the same), probably because they were drawing from a broader geographical area. In these programs, ensemble playing is the top priority-- great orchestral training, not so much emphasis on solo work. It was assumed that the kids would be working on their solo rep separately, perhaps using their weekly private lessons with coaches to work on technique as well as problems with the ensemble music. Or some kids put their solo rep aside in the summer to focus on the ensemble aspect of the summer program. There are, of course some programs that do both, but I think they tend to look for students already playing at a somewhat higher level than your D.</p>

<p>It sounds to me that of the two goals you describe (more experience with ensemble playing and building more repertoire) the second might be more valuable for her. If she is able to play comfortably at level 5 by the fall, she will find far more orchestral and other ensemble playing experiences open to her when she gets to college (and within her peer age group).</p>

<p>Another place to pose your question and get some really good feedback might be <a href="http://www.violinist.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.violinist.com&lt;/a>. They have a great discussion group with lots of professional and amateur string players of all ages and abilities sharing a wealth of knowledge and information.</p>

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<p>OK, so I've been doing some more surfing to try to understand levels. I so hate being a greenhorn at this stage of the game! </p>

<p>The level I previously mentioned was taken from the list at this site: <a href="http://www.mmea-maryland.org/html/orc_solo_grade.php?id=2%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mmea-maryland.org/html/orc_solo_grade.php?id=2&lt;/a>. </p>

<p>The piece her teacher has assigned her to work on is 6 Airs Varies op.89 (series 1), Dancla. The list above calls it grade 4. </p>

<p>I just found a document at the ASTA site that seems very helpful in describing skills for the different levels: <a href="http://www.asta.net/pdfdirectory/virgviolin.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.asta.net/pdfdirectory/virgviolin.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The Dancla Airs 4,5,6 are listed under level 5. A work that dd had chosen to work on before starting with her new teacher is Keler-Bela: Son of the Puszta, Op. 134, No. 2, from “37 Pieces You Like to Play", listed under level 7. She had just started to work with it for a couple of weeks when she played for one of the professors at a trial lesson. He thought that would be a good level piece for her. </p>

<p>Looking at the various skills listed in each level, she has developed or is developing skills from all of levels 5-7. Her teacher has not assigned her an etude book. She has Whistler's Introducing the Positions 1 & 2 and Barber's Scales for Advanced Violinists for practicing scales. She hasn't done a ton of sight-reading as we've gotten going on this, and I know from previous experience that sight-reading is probably one of her biggest limitations. We've collected enough material recently that she's got plenty to work with for practicing sight reading. </p>

<p>Could you share what your daughter's practice routine is in terms of how much time she spends, how she breaks it down with respect to working on various skills, etc.? My dd is not a logical-sequential thinker, and so tends to go with what strikes her fancy at the moment. She eventually hits everything, but it seems that she could be much more structured- even to the point of working with a list. But I know she needs a routine that will work for her, not her logical-sequential, detail oriented mom!</p>

<p>I have been so focused on the next couple of months- and I think that focus is still most important- but after surfing around I realized if we do want to do something for summer we need to get on that very soon. </p>

<p>I really appreciate your input! This is so helpful.</p>

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<p>Fiddlemom, it?s helpful to understand what pieces your daughter is working on and against which grading system. Like you, it?s been my observation that my daughter has worked on pieces in a range of difficulty spanning a couple of grades, or even do pieces out of order, but overall the ASTA grades are a very useful guideline. [For example, she?s right now working on Lalo/symphonie espagnole (level 9), but she completed Mozart Concerto 5 (level 10) over a year ago.]</p>

<p>You are right that time is growing short for applying for summer programs. Besides the research to find good possibilities for what she?s looking for, many also require in-person auditions, or at least audition tapes. But of course, that may not be a problem if she?s able to use the same rep that she?s preparing for college auditions. </p>

<p>IMHO, from what you?ve described, I think practice sight-reading will be enormously helpful to your D. My D?s teachers have usually set aside 10 minutes each lesson for sight-reading; in the early stages it?s much harder to practice sight-reading effectively without an outside prompt. Her new teacher may also at some point decide that one or two specific etudes would be helpful with certain technical issues, but that?s something that will evolve as s/he gets to know your daughter and understand her playing better. My D?s teachers have never approached etude books from first page to last, rather chose what helped with a particular problem. </p>

<p>As for my daughter?s practice routine: Ha! she?s not logical-sequential either!, but she manages to set her own objectives for practicing so that she makes progress between bi-weekly lessons and from one weekly orchestra rehearsal to another. She practices about two hours a day, sometimes more on weekends, less if at all on Tuesday nights, when she has a 3-1/2 hr orchestra rehearsal. She usually does one session after school/before dinner, and since she?s a night owl, will often do part two late at night, after homework and IM/email time with friends. On the one hand, she can be extremely lazy about scales and etudes, and just fool around to ?warm up? but on the other hand there are practice sessions that she ONLY works on technical stuff?scales, etudes, hand exercises (no bowing at all). Whatever she?s working on, she usually practices 45 minutes and takes a break. Sometimes practicing consists of reading her music while playing a recording of the piece she?s working on (or more than one recording in order to compare interpretations), and she?ll mark up the music for tempo/dynamics, or even put fingerings in as she listens. </p>

<p>She has two-hour lessons twice a month. They usually follow a similar pattern: 15 minutes of scales, exercises, discussions about thorny technical problems, and then 45-50 minutes each on the two major pieces she?s working on (right now, the Lalo and some solo Bach). (Sometimes they will only focus on a couple of bars of a piece in that 45 minutes.) They often spend time at the end focused on interpretation and musical ideas. Sometimes that pattern is interrupted; for example at her last lesson she?d just received some very challenging music that her orchestra would begin after the holiday break (Tchaik symphony #2) and almost half of the session was spent working out fingerings. Next lesson will probably focus mostly on the Lalo, since it needs to be performance ready by the end of January.</p>

<p>But, as to your daughter?s situation: it?s great that she?s already got a couple of college acceptances in hand so she?ll have some good options, academically and musically, to choose from. So what are HER thoughts about what would help her most, musically speaking, this summer?</p>

<p>I just previewed this -- OMG I am sooo long-winded!</p>

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<p>Fiddlemom, you might want to check out Sewanee Summer Music Festival. When our daughter went there 3 years ago, there was an age range of about 12 through college and two orchestras with different levels of difficulty. The strings were sometimes moved from one orchestra to the other, so they must have had mini-auditions throughout the summer.</p>

<p>At that time, they were offering lots of scholarships to get strings because they still had openings late in the spring. My impression is that it is easier to get in there than other places.</p>

<p>It is a beautiful setting and it might be worth checking out.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the link about levels. That is something I felt like I was lacking knowledge about. When D was younger, she took Suzuki, so we always knew "how far" she was. According to that listing, she is playing pieces off levels 9 and 10, but I suspect that at a certain point, levels start mingling quite a bit. I also know she has revisited some pieces she'd played when younger, and they are a whole lot more fun to listen to now!</p>

<p>Thanks also for the suggestion of Sewanee. I had checked the link above for string camps in the south, and couldn't seem to plug in anything that got results. Even just "violin" and "south" turned up nothing! I looked at Sewanee's site - and will show it to D today. I don't know how I feel about an extra 3 grand right before college! (And you have to apply by March - long before we know what we're paying for college.) I couldn't find anything on the site about scholarships. Anybody know?</p>

<p>I see that Harvey Thurmer is one of the violin teachers this summer. He is the teacher D met when we visited Miami-Ohio, and she liked him a lot. Since he studied at the Mozarteum, as did her teacher in Germany, she noticed that they taught similarly, which made her comfortable. She said everything he complimented her on was something her German teacher had taught her.</p>

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<p>Re: Sewanee scholarships. All I remember from when our daughter was there was that I think they sent emails to the accepted people late in the spring and said that they had openings for strings with scholarships attached. The other thing I remember was that you could get scholarships that required you to usher at the concerts. Our experience was that the more advanced a student is, they might do better at a different festival. There was a pretty big range of abilities at Sewanee and there were some excellent teachers in individual studios.</p>

<p>It isn't far from Chattanooga, so it wouldn't be a bad drive for you from Atlanta.</p>

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<p>Just getting back to you all after the server downtime. I actually wrote this yesterday but just when I was trying to post it the server went down. </p>

<p>ASW: Thanks for the tip on Sewanee! We obviously have a lot to consider as we think about the summer but having some information about possible options will make our decision a lot easier. </p>

<p>binx: I played around with the search a bit. It seems to me that it doesn't do well if you plug in more than one parameter. </p>

<p>orchestramom: Thanks so much for your feedback on your dd's practice and lesson routines. I know each student and teacher is different but it helps to have some idea how others approach it. My dd is also a night owl, and sometimes will pick up her instrument about 10pm. I hate to shut her down at 11:30 when she seems to still be going stong but some of us do need our sleep! I think I need to talk to her and suggest in those cases that she use the basement, use her mute, or work on something that we can't hear. She doesn't only have one place in the house she works. Her violin tends to stay out where she can pick it up quickly and she'll pick it up through the day when she's home and play 10 or 15 minutes at a time outside of her long practice for the day. </p>

<p>As for her thoughts on the summer. I'm waiting until this last college app is submitted before we talk about summer. That should be done by early next week (Jan. 15th deadline).</p>

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<p>Tracy Silverman teaches at Belmont in Nashville. He is Julliard trained and was a member of the Turtle Island String Quartet. He is a great jazz violinist who tours the world as well as records and teaches in Nashville. Google his name to find his web site. </p>

<p>My son studied violin since the age of five, but he did not want to play in an orchestra or teach for a living. Belmont was a very good fit for him. He continued his classical studies at Belmont but took commercial lessons all four years as well. My son graduated from Belmont in Violin Performance in 2005. He is now very good at improvisation and plays all music types. He has a day job in Nashville with a music publishing company but has "gigs" on a very regular basis in studios and live performances at nights and on weekends. He is doing what he loves. I am very pleased with his growth as an overall violinist.</p>

<p>You may want to consider Belmont. The school wants classically trained string players but is also very interested in the non-tradition trained violinist or fiddler. Belmont also has a summer string camp you may want to consider for your daughter. Info on it is at Belmont's web site, <a href="http://www.belmont.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.belmont.edu&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p>

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<p>Henrob: Thanks for posting this. It almost looks like it could be a "perfect" program for my dd! I think she would be excited if she saw the website. </p>

<p>It's getting so late in the applications cycle to do this, though. If we get on it, it might be possible, although it says that consideration for merit scholarships require apps to be in by Dec. 1, which we've obviously missed. Dd is not able to attend a private university without significant merit aid since we are ineligible for need-based aid yet fall into a range where we also cannot afford full private tuition.</p>