UR will not guarantee you better opportunities in some unspecified future. Finding/making opportunities is your responsibility no matter where you go to college. No one at UR is going to tap you on the shoulder and ask if you want a research job.
Yeah, I know. Maybe I shouldn’t have used the word “guarantee”. I chatted with someone from UR who said she emailed 15 labs before getting a spot, and that’s not even that bad. My point was that although, sure, students will always compete for positions, there’s still a difference between a huge school and a medium/small school.
The actual ratio of students to positions (whether for research or at hospitals) is likely smaller. Smaller faculty:student ratio could also mean that while you still have to work to stand out, you don’t have as many burnt out professors, and the professors may be more open. Of course, it’s all going to be a lot of speculation. None of us have any way for sure of knowing how it’s like.
It’s been interesting to see everyone’s responses. I expected the potential changes in need-based financial aid to be the main argument for choosing UB (which many did bring up, so it’s good to see that match), and I didn’t expect that much focus on competition and whether my intelligence and motivation is sufficient to even consider UR in the first place. I’m not expecting anyone to be able to properly judge my academic abilities off just a few posts, so I’m going to think on that on my own.
We’ve focused a lot on med school. Are there any other factors I might need to consider if I, after another semester or two, strike med school from my options and decide to pursue research only? The path to med school is more or less clear cut, while research is more vague.
If you might like to pursue graduate school in one of the sciences, then you will most likely want the opportunity to complete a faculty-mentored, for-credit thesis across one or two semesters in your senior year. The culture and expectation for this type of activity is much higher at some schools than at others. Also, at a well-endowed school, a stipend for summer research (on or off campus) would not be uncommon.
30 years ago there was a weed out culture for premeds at the U of R. Don’t know if it’s still true.
Don’t know if Rochester provides stipends etc. It’s endowment per student is fine, but not super high.
I don’t know what the right answer is . . . I imagine Rochester is a better school by a bunch of different measures, but is it appreciably different for the OP? I can’t say, and there’s a decent chance it isn’t.
Btw, your intelligence shines through your posts, you are clearly very bright!
The consensus on this thread seems to be for UB. I think that there is a case to be made for UR.
First, it is very impressive to make the jump from CC to University of Rochester. I think it places a resume in a whole different category than CC to UB precisely because UR balances the 2 years at CC in a way that UB doesn’t.
Second, there’s a legitimate risk that financial aid might change. But that risk is for only one more year. This student invested 2 years at CC precisely so she wouldn’t be in over her head financially. Financing 1 year of college is a whole lot different than financing 3 or 4 years of college.
Third, statistically there’s a good chance that any pre-med student will not go to med school. So, pre-meds need a Plan B. In that case, I think that the value of the Rochester degree takes on more value. But in specific terms, UR offers a bachelor’s/master’s program in epidemiology and public health called HEAL which is a very nice alternative for anyone interested in health sciences. Not only does it guarantee completion of the master’s with just a 5th year, which is a cost savings in itself, but every student accepted into th program receives a 40% tuition reduction automatically.
I’m not offering an alternative to dispute the case made by those who have promoted the UB route because those are all valid arguments and should be taken seriously. I’m just looking through a different lens simply because there is more than on way to evaluate these options.
There is still a weed out culture at UR. D2’s freshman year fully 40% of the freshman class identified themselves as pre-med.
The joke D2 used to tell was freshman year, you walk down the hallway and every other dorm room has a pre-med in it. At winter break after gen chem 1 grades are released, everyone is suddenly an Econ major. Then when everyone is packing to leave for the summer and.after calc 2 grades have come out, everyone is suddenly a sociology major.
As for grad school, that entirely depends on whether you have the backing of faculty members in your specialty area (you’ll need strong LORs), your grades in UL elective courses in your specialty area and to some extent your GRE score. But many, many individuals from public colleges are accepted into grad programs.
So a lot of your competitiveness for grad school will be on you and how well you perform in the lab,
P.S. as word of caution–the life of researcher sounds important and interesting, but there’s a lot of grinding that goes into it. Unless you have prior research lab work, you may not realize just how repetitive and boring it can be. Science advances incrementally.
Also you should be aware that there is a HIGE oversupply of bio PhDs. Fewer than 1/3 of bio PhDs find jobs in biology–even when you consider industry jobs. Most end up teaching at the high school and CC level or as more-or-less permanent research assistants (which doesn’t pay especially well since those jobs only require a BS degree.)
You need to keep an open mind about your career track.
There is still a weed out culture at UR. D2’s freshman year fully 40% of the freshman class identified themselves as pre-med.
Interesting to hear. A big part of UR’s image seems to be them pushing their value of community, tight-knit relationships, and helping each other rather than cut-throat competition. But they never claimed their classes were easy, so it could be that the students are mostly nice to each other, but the classes weed them out anyway. Not really sure. It’s hard to unwrap a college’s marketing.
P.S. as word of caution–the life of researcher sounds important and interesting, but there’s a lot of grinding that goes into it. Unless you have prior research lab work, you may not realize just how repetitive and boring it can be.
Yes, that’s a good point, and why I’m hesitant to pick between premed or research yet. It’s why I said I need a school with research and medical setting opportunities, because at my community college there have been none of those opportunities and I need to try it out before I know. Same for med. It may be more rewarding job/pay wise in the end (depending on the exact path) but some people still don’t make it through medical school and end up hating it.
There appears to be uncertainty with UR financial aid the second year (sibling will graduate from college).
Given that the OP started at community college to save money, that uncertainty can be a problem if UR becomes unaffordable for senior year, when it is also difficult to transfer to another college.
Can your parents afford a potentially higher second ( or third) year cost at UR and at what sacrifice? Enjoying reading the interesting points in the thread. UB is the safer choice and UR is higher risk and maybe higher reward. You are clearly a bright student and thoughtfully weighing your choices- my guess is you will be successful in either path - just make sure you have a financial plan in place if you take the UR option.
Pre-med is inherently a weed-out process at any college. A large percentage of frosh pre-meds never apply to medical school, and only about 40% of medical school (MD programs in the US) applicants get any admissions.
If you are a pre-med, one other concern with UR transfer credit uncertainty is that if some of your prior course work is denied subject credit, you could have to repeat it with a substantially similar course, which looks bad on medical school applications.
Again, 30 years ago, the UR weeding out was done by the grading curve. Many of my friends began as premeds, and I believe their experience was a collaborative, not a cutthroat one.
I’ll be sitting down with my parents sometime soon. I believe we could afford a higher second year cost, but of course that would bump up the day I’ll have to take out loans for my grad school stuff.
I little irony here: the OP clearly told you why he/she attended CC.
You have zero basis upon which to assert this. Zero. Again, the OP told you why he/she attended CC: to save money. All of the unicorns you think attend Rochester came from a high school, and the quality and rigor of high schools around the country varies greatly. Are you saying that most kids at Rochester attended HSs with rigor that make the CC classes OP took and mastered pale by comparison?
Most state flagships have agreements that reserve spots for CC transfers in their state. Kids transfer into Berkeley, Michigan, Washington, and other top state schools every year from CCs. Is there data that shows they ‘crash and burn’? I haven’t seen it if there is. We’re not advising a kid who is showing trouble hitting a division 1 curve ball to maybe check their dreams of playing in the major leagues. The ability to get through school involves more subtle factors. Maybe there would be a transition period, or maybe not. Community college courses may not be as rigorous as your Ivy League school’s were, but they’re not a joke either. You should not be so quick to dismiss OP’s accomplishments, both because it’s not helpful and because you don’t really know what you’re talking about.
But the most curious thing about your post is its fundamental reasoning. You are saying that the OP is a ‘high risk’ for academic failure at Rochester, and then advise he/she attend Buffalo to up his/her odds of medical school. Does that make sense? If the OP can’t make it through Rochester in one piece, why on earth would you suggest medical school?
OP: I express no opinion on which school you should attend; I have no experience with medical school admissions. It seems you’ve been given solid advice here, overall, as far as I can tell. The only opinion I do express is that you should not make the decision based on a fear that you can’t cut it at Rochester. It’s a fine school, and yes, of course, the overall level of academic rigor will be higher than the CC you’ve attended, though I’m sure you know that already. But assuming you won’t flourish at Rochester because you’ve been at a CC would be like Dean Smith assuming Michael Jordan wouldn’t cut it at North Carolina because he didn’t make his HS varsity until junior year.
OP, congrats on all your hard work paying off. You have 2 great opportunities. Yes, UR has more prestige, but SUNY Buffalo is also a solid and respected school. Med schools will not care which one you went to. I am a doctor, and my medical school classmates came from all sorts of undergrad situations: Ivys, local state directionals, state flagships, tribal colleges, LACs, little non-selective regional religious schools. The same is true of Biology PhD programs where what will matter is grades, GRE scores, and letters of rec. Go where your heart is telling you. And if your heart isn’t telling you, then flip a coin. You will do fine anywhere as long as you work your butt off. My best tip for anyone making a transition whether hs–>college or CC–>4 year is to use all resources available to you whether you need them or not for at least the 1st semester: writing centers, math centers, office hours etc. Just for extra insurance as you make the transition. If nothing else, you will make friends there, and studying will be less lonely. Best wishes!!!
There is no doubt in my mind that you will do well at either school. The admissions folks at UR know what they are doing. Fear shouldn’t be the deciding factor, especially unfounded fear.
If you’d like to experience the feel of a smaller, private school like UR, you should go for it (after you talk to your parents). You’ve earned this opportunity and you should choose the school that appeals most to you.
But if UB makes you happy and feels right to you, you should feel comfortable saying yes. Among my parent friends who send their kids to SUNY schools, Buffalo is easily in the top three. Lots of kids no longer choose Binghamton because of its surrounding town. I can easily see smart kids choosing Buffalo or Stony Brook for the same reasons you chose CC: they like the vibe and they want to save money. So you will find smart people no matter where you choose to go.
When I made this thread, I was leaning slightly towards UB, for the feel and because I liked the degree (and credit transfer) better. I didn’t indicate that, because I’d actually expected more people to be favorable to UR, and I guess I wanted to see people’s opinions without them knowing mine. I was wondering if anyone would help sway me towards UR, because though I knew it is more prestigious, I was still hesitant about its cons and didn’t feel as connected to the campus when I visited.
Ultimately, I think Auntlydia summed it up best. I’m factoring out whether or not I’m likely to perform academically better at one school over another, because I’ve decided that’s a dead end. If I weigh the degree/credits, finances, housing options, college surroundings, and the vibe, it’s likely to be UB. But I’m a pretty thorough person and like to feel like I’ve explored all the options and answered all my questions first, so it’ll be a few more days before I put it down for certain.
Poster’s well-meaning tendencies often honor an OP’s criteria. However, the general differences between UR and UB extend beyond intangible aspects. For example, in this analysis based on standardized scoring profiles, UR placed 60th nationally in comparison to UB’s 293rd: The 610 Smartest Colleges in America. Although the analysis dates from several years ago, I believe the relationship between these schools remains roughly the same today.
To be thorough, you may want to consider whether the above information suggests anything to you about the academic atmospheres of your current choices, especially since, in your affinity for Columbia (8th in the analysis), it seems you have revealed at least some degree of preference related to statistics of this type.