This is a good point. My exposure to selective private universities tells me that this is a big risk at Rochester. The schools we’ve dealt with very stingy with offering IB credit with a high IB score in the subject.
I realize that’s different from CC transfer credits, but I’d dig into that and understand how much time you’re effectively losing if you pursue Rochester.
Actual class sizes are best found in the actual class schedules, since upper level classes are usually smaller, but popular major (like biology) courses are usually larger:
https://www.buffalo.edu/class-schedule?semester=fall
https://cdcs.ur.rochester.edu/
Median New York high school students barely made it to college, and did not get to junior year of college (according to https://steinhardt.nyu.edu/research-alliance/research/spotlight-nyc-schools/how-have-nycs-high-school-graduation-and-college , 80% of class of 2018 graduated high school, 58% of class of 2017 enrolled in college, and 39% of class of 2015 made it to junior year of college).
So the college juniors who will be the OP’s classmates after transfer (to any four year college) are automatically all above the median high school student in academic achievement.
That’s right, I’m trying to. Unfortunately my timeline is very tight–I met with a counselor at UR only on Friday due to scheduling conflicts–so I only found out then who to contact about credit transfer.
I’ve emailed the right people who should hopefully be able to give me an unofficial, but pretty accurate, estimate of what transfers and what doesn’t… but I only have until Tuesday. So UB is definitely safer in that respect, because my desire to retake my physics classes (those are the classes most in doubt right now) is very low.
I didn’t think of finding out class sizes from the schedules–thanks! Looks like classes I’d take at UR would mostly range from 60-120, while UB could range widely from 30-375. Several UB classes I’d need to take are filling up with 200 people already. I feel like some of those classes at UB should have recitations, but I’m having trouble figuring that out.
Ha ha! Yes, I don’t blame you.
Good luck with your decision. I’m betting on you doing well whichever school you choose.
I knew when I wrote my post, someone would nitpick it, lol. I was referring to median achievers among those going to 4-year colleges.
SUNY Buffalo is a very good school, I know many successful alumni, my own brother included.
And it does have some specific programs that attract top students – If you are a New York resident who wants to study engineering at a low tuition, it’s the best option, for example.
But overall, on average, it does attract a different type of student than UR. Median SATs are just slightly above the national median. Where University of Rochester is mostly students who took lots of honors and AP classes, SUNY Buffalo is mostly people who did ok in regular classes in high school.
And this contributes to a different atmosphere.
And I’m definitely not saying one atmosphere is better or worse than the other.
Considering OP specifically chose to go first 2 years at Community College in order to save money and expand options for the last 2 years… I’d simply encourage OP to pick the school she thinks she would enjoy most. Whether academically, socially, culturally, etc. The schools are very different, it’s not an apples to apples comparison. It’s like choosing between a Hawaii vacation and a Paris vacation. Both are spectacular options, but there is no objective standard to say one is better than the other. It is entirely a subjective question.
UB’s 25th percentile scores register above national medians, correct?
Just barely. The 25th percentile at SUNY Buffalo is maybe 60-80 points above the SAT 50th percentile.
Median SAT at SUNY BUffalo, I see 1245 is reported. That’s about 70th-75th percentile for SATs. But remember, not everyone taking the SAT goes to a 4-year-college… not everyone who takes the SAT goes to college at all.
50th percentile for SATs is about 1050-1080, depending on the year. I’m confident that most people going to 4-year colleges are over 1000 on the SATs. The bottom 30-40% of SAT takers are not typically attending 4-year-schools.
With an acceptance rate of 67%, in terms of admission competitiveness, it typifies the “average” type of school that an “average 4-year college anticipating student” will get in to. (though some programs within the school are indeed far more competitive than that).
Since the OP will be transferring in as a junior, the other students encountered will generally be academically stronger than entering frosh because:
I’m talking about how it affects the culture of the entire university, not the competitiveness of the classes at UB. It leads to an entirely different atmosphere.
And believe me, top Universities weed out plenty. But they are weeding out those that got 4’s on AP exams, or had “only” 1450 on SATs… or did absolutely great in high school but aren’t hacking college for whatever reason.
But again, I encourage OP to look beyond just “which school is cheaper” and which school may have the right level of academic competitiveness to simply decide which school will make her happier. What type of people does she want to be surrounded by, which campus is more appealing, how will the class size affect her, outside her major – what elective classes appeal to her, what extracurricular possibilities are most appealing.
More selective colleges have higher retention and graduation rates (i.e. very little weed-out), because they (have the luxury to) select students who are generally better prepared for college. Harvard says that “The College’s graduation rate is normally 98 percent, among the highest at American colleges and universities. Everyone admitted to Harvard has the ability to complete all academic requirements successfully.”
This is really a silly tangent that has nothing to do with the discussion. But we aren’t talking about Harvard. University of Rochester has about a 84% 6-year-graduation rate, and SUNY Buffalo has about a 74% 6-year graduation rate.
And remember – It’s not just bottom students being weeded out. It’s also top students transferring out. (another reason top schools have higher graduation rates… fewer students transferring out).
Anyway… it’s silly… weeding out the bottom 10% of the Buffalo class doesn’t bring the academic level of the student body suddenly up to the same level of Rochester. While they certainly have some overlap in students, overall, they come from slightly different pools. (with some overlap).
I still feel uneasy that you are comparing the intellectual capacity for student learning in a difficult major between UR vs Buffalo based on high school SAT scores and graduation rates. I just don’t buy into that it’s that great of a difference for the same degree.
I do agree that the atmosphere of a large school is different than a smaller school and OP is trying to determine best fit and experience - along with cost - but the outcomes may likely be the same at either school while we know the costs will be different.
I’m not at all. I’m not talking about intellectual capacity for student learning.
I’m talking about a different type of demographic and student body.
I’m talking about, “what types of kids do you enjoy hanging out with” – Do you enjoy hanging out with kids that were near the top of their schools, who always took lots of honors classes and AP classes. Or do you generally make friends with people who were the more typical high school achievers.
Do you prefer a group of people that comes from all over the nation and all over the world, or a group of people that primarily comes from New York State.
The type of crowd that would go to a state university versus the type of crowd that gravitates to a private school.
Different types of people gravitate towards different types of vacations.
Just like some people might gravitate towards an active vacation with hiking and biking, while another person may gravitate towards a vacation of lying on a beach and getting spa treatments.
This has NOTHING to do with intellectual capacity. I know lots of people who did not excel at all in high school who went on to extremely successful collegiate years and post-college professions.
As I said, I encourage OP to look beyond the academic competitiveness. Just a question of, “which people do I tend to gravitate towards in my friendships.”
To a large extent, this is associated with family finances. Rochester has 18% Pell grant, while Buffalo has 34%.
Yes… it’s finances, high school achievement, geographics. All of the above and more, attracting a different student body creating a different atmosphere.
@readingsheep , please report back with your decision. I believe you will do well no matter which choice you make. Wishing you the best!
As a physician who did undergrad and med school at UB, and internship and fellowship at UR, I will say you can’t make a bad choice. One of my fellow fellows did undergrad at UR. You will be challenged at either school. I think it comes down to knowing yourself. I very much prefer the notion of a kickass state university, with its access mission, with perhaps a bit less cache, over what a better ranked private school with its associated elitism. But that is just me. It is highly individual. I loved UB, knowing me, I would not have been as happy at UR. UB felt giant, but friendly. If I wanted to take Swahili next semester, it was offered. Any science, offered. I was in engineering at UB, and was harder than anything I did in med school. Finished at top of my med school class. In fact the number 2 student was a nursing grad from a small college. Of the top five students, none were Ivy League. And there were alot of students from Ivy League schools. I think school rank in this situation is overrated. Good luck.
My daughter did a dual major at UB EE/CS.
It was extremely hard (via tears/calls/emails) but she was fortunate because she went to the tutors daily, and she also had an advantage in that Dad also did a dual major in EE/CS who could explain new concepts to her. She said many students dropped out of the program because it was so difficult.
She took a difficult English class and was always the top grade. The professor asked her if she was an English lit major. She stated that she wasn’t and said that he was surprised and disappointed that she wouldn’t be in his department.
Then, he asked her if she would consider switching to English and she said that she liked engineering and CS (and pay scales), which surprised him even further, but he stated that if anyone could do it, it would be her.
I took a bunch of English classes, and to be honest, was better at it. But for rigor, UB engineering was epic. Served me well. UB had a highly acclaimed English department. Hope it still does. Loved the contrast from my small private boys school.