<p>DD, rising senior, is honing down her list of colleges this summer--most of them are within her range and she has about 5 or 6 on the list. I noticed she left off her long time dream school (Rice) and asked why. "I am never going to get in so don't want to waste my time applying". </p>
<p>She has been disappointed by her completely average SAT (500's)and ACT scores (mid low 20s) despite rounds of prep classes. She's intellectual, deliberate--not the best standardized test taker. Going to give the ACT another go in fall, need a miracle.</p>
<p>Her GPA is a 3.4, all academic courses, not counting a couple college history courses taken. No APs. A demanding public high school. A hook or 2. Serious about her intended field of history. Good ECs. Hard working.</p>
<p>She visited Rice & loved it. Despite her mismatched stats, I want to encourage her to apply for Fall 2011 only because I don't want her to look back in 10 years and wonder if she might have been admitted. Her choice of course. Thoughts?</p>
<p>Her stats are pretty low for Rice, but that shouldn’t stop her from submitting an application. There’s really no downside to doing it if she has the time, unless she’s trying to shield herself from disappointment. Rice is known for looking at students in a holistic manner. Essays make a big difference in who’s admitted at Rice. I say go for it!</p>
<p>Your daughter’s plan to not apply to a dream school where scores are far below their norm makes sense to me. Odds of her getting in are very slim. She has time now, though, to set her sites on another dream school that is not as much of a reach.</p>
<p>if one is looking for “fit”, it’s not just about “getting in”; it’s about succeeding…do you think she can succeed academically in a place like Rice? or will she be killing herself just to stay above water?</p>
<p>there are reaches and there are reaches; like Northstarmom says, maybe you can find a more reasonable reach…</p>
<p>I’ll agree with NSM on this one. Having been through this with our daughter, I wish I’d told her “no” to a school that was a huge reach. Our daughter was ridiculously optimistic that she could get in; she was waitlisted (due to legacy status I believe, which dragged out the process even longer.) And Rice is getting more competitive, as are all of the top-20’s. OP didn’t mention any URM status, so I’ll assume it’s not there. Unless there’s another hook, I wouldn’t encourage her to apply.</p>
<p>You know, it’s not the way that most of us are inclined to operate, but I think it would be a good thing to not have a “dream” school. I’ve read so many posts from heartbroken CC kids who didn’t get into the college of their dreams, and then I find that they’re discouraged at having to choose between acceptances that most college applicants would love to have as options.</p>
<p>I don’t have a problem with her applying to Rice if she, and you, are realistic about her chances, which admittedly are slim. My ds applied to Stanford even though only 7% of kids get admitted, but he didn’t hang his hopes on it at all. He had a free app so we said, Why not? That was his only rejection, but imagine if he hadn’t applied with 9 yays and one WL in hand; he’d always have wondered what if.</p>
<p>It totally depends on the student. Some kids can very easily say “what the heck I’m going to try” and not have a moment of disappointment if it doesn’t work out. Other kids just cannot handle rejection. My #2 applied to a school that he didn’t have much if any chance and got the rejection. It was his only rejection and it didn’t bother him. I think he kept the letter as proof that he tried. I have his acceptance letters in his college file but he snagged the rejection letter and scooted away with it. If she likes Rice and can handle a rejection then she could certainly try. If she’s sending clear signals that she wants to move on and forget Rice even after you suggest that she “try” then she’s telling you she doesn’t want to deal with that rejection and understands the consequences of the “what ifs.” My older son “shot low” simply because he didn’t want to deal with rejections or hassles or wait lists or really any kind of indifference on the part of colleges. Different kids. Different tolerances. Let your D make the decision.</p>
<p>Maybe if you could identify some of the things that she loved about Rice, other posters here could suggest some similar choices where she might have a better chance.</p>
<p>From what I know of Rice, it doesn’t sound like a good “fit” for your D. As a previous poster said, I would be concerned about her ability to perform well and be happy at a school that might be an unrealistic reach. </p>
<p>Gadad is right about the dream-schools; it’s like house-hunting: it’s fine to know what you’re looking for and what your prio
rities are, but it’s best not to fall in love with that one particular house (school) when there are so many factors out of your
control…and so many other great options out there.</p>
<p>I hope your D is getting excited about some of the other schools on her “pruned” list.</p>
<p>Though chances of admission are low I think it’s kind of good to learn that sometimes you have to put yourself out there even if you know there’s a high probability of failure. Though the college admissions process can really suck, there are definitely some good lessons to learn from it.</p>
<p>I don’t know where you stand as far as essay writing… but a kick-ass essay never hurts. I would say “write a kickass essay!” so long as it doesn’t detract her attention and focus from more reasonable applications. I’m pretty sure Rice does a “Why Rice?” type essay so that would be a great place for her to see how she could fit into her dream school (and convince the adcom of a thing or two). As long she goes through the process with a sense of reality and levelheadedness (which it sounds like she totally is) then definitely encourage her to ‘reach’ for the stars (pardon the atrocious pun).</p>
<p>OP here. Thanks for all your thoughts. DD has some other fine choices with more realistic “fits” as far as academics and test scores, and she has one choice that she is particularly interested in. The thing with Rice was, she felt she would mesh with the student body there, liked the location, size, “feel”, and program(s). It is hard to say or know if she would be out-classed there intellectually but it certainly is something to consider. Methinks she is a late bloomer, and an “easier” academic transition might be the way to go. Will see what she wants to do.</p>
<p>As someone who advises students with regard to college admissions, I always leave it up to the student to decide where to apply and would not stop them. However, I believe in honest and realistic assessments of chances. I don’t know enough about your daughter to assess her odds entirely (you say “good ECs” and you say “one or two hooks” and “no APs but demanding high school” and these are too vague and I don’t know what courses she took in relation to her school, her rank or decile in her class, or the level of her achievements in ECs or what sort of hooks you mean, etc.). </p>
<p>But just based on the GPA and SAT / ACT scores (which also are not exact that you provided) and likely didn’t take the most demanding curriculum offered…it appears that Rice would be a FAR REACH for your daughter. I truly believe that every student should have some Reach schools on the list where the odds are very chancy. But a reach school should be within grasp, even if the odds are on the low side. I truly am not into applying to FAR Reaches where the student’s odds of admission are “out of reach” or close to impossible odds. Sure, one can say no harm in trying. But in my view, if the odds are close to zero, it is not worth the time and focus in applying and more attention should be paid to realistic schools that are remotely within grasp. The reaches should not be IMPOSSIBLE odds, in other words, but simply low odds, but where the applicant’s profile is one that the school is willing to admit and has admitted in the past. On the little you shared (which isn’t really enough for me to accurately evaluate!), it sounds like Rice may be out of reach for your daughter. In my view, she should find REACH schools for that portion of her list where she realistically has SOME chance. She should try to find schools that have some things in common with what appeals to her about Rice. Visit realistic reaches to get excited about them. </p>
<p>I also agree with others to not have a “dream school” but rather a few favorites, which is only natural to have. Focusing on one “must have” school is often a recipe for disappointment. And in this case, the “dream school” doesn’t appear to be within grasp and I tend to advise against that. Build a list with reaches, matches and safeties and certainly aim high, but be REALISTIC at the same time. Reaches should be schools that DO accept students with your child’s profile, even if the odds are slimmer. Reaches shouldn’t be schools that are so far out of reach where the school doesn’t tend to accept anyone with that profile. </p>
<p>If your D still wants to apply, I would not stand in her way but I’d make all of that very very clear. And I’d really encourage DIFFERENT reach schools that are remotely within reach with her profile.</p>
<p>It is certainly up to the student. Some kids want to give it the try even if the stats are way off. Not a problem as long there are some realistic schools on the list too. But if she sees that it is completely unreasonable and does not want to throw a “Hail Mary” that is her decision.</p>
<p>Rice requires two SAT subject tests. If none of her other schools do, that’s a large commitment of time and money. Is she the type that considers how much she has “invested” in something as part of the disappointment if she doesn’t get it? I would let it drop if she doesn’t want to push it.</p>
<p>I would look at it this way. From an enrollment management perspective her only shot, assuming there is something compelling in her application, is if she is full pay. So before getting too far down this road, are you willing and able to pay full fare for this dream school?</p>
<p>Time to have a dream is when there is still time to make it happen. Senior year is not the time to have unrealistic dream. It is time for parents to sit down and have a realistic discussion with the kid.</p>
<p>D2 always had a dream to go to Yale. I am absolutely all supportive of it. This year, as a sophomore, she received her first B and an A-. She took an SAT II test and got a 690. If she continues this trend, would Yale still be a possibility? Probably not. Would she still be able to have a great junior year and improve her SAT II score to mid 700 and get over 2200 in SAT I? Maybe. If not, would she be able to find a good school she would be happy yet? Absolutely. </p>
<p>Now, I am telling her that she still has a chance at Yale if she pushes herself. Come Senior year, if this is still her trend, I don’t think I would encourage her to pursue Yale, but maybe find a school similar to Yale.</p>
<p>Your daughter seems to have made a reasonable decision not to apply to a former dream school that more than likely will reject her. She’s got a lot of good sense, far more than do students who keep holding on to their dreams even though anyone could see that due to their stats, they’ll likely to be rejected.</p>
<p>To me, it would make sense to help your daughter find another dream school that has attributes that are similar to Rice’s but is much more likely to accept her.</p>
<p>Right now, to me the person in your family who seems to be hanging on to a dream is the OP. The daughter seems to have moved on.</p>