<p>Can we please try to be a little less sanctimonious here? 3365, that was unnecessary. Jesus, you'd think he committed murder or something.</p>
<p>I agree with Hamman: lapse in judgement =/= character flaw.</p>
<p>i guess our moral values differ. i grew up in a family that has strong moral values and stealing is one of the worst things one can do.</p>
<p>"i only feel sorry for the op's parents who raised such a child"</p>
<p>so I guess having strong morals mean you don't need to be considerate or respectful?</p>
<p>for someone who stole a test, a TEACHER's test, and is academically dishonest, to me deserves neither consideration nor respect.</p>
<p>you really don't think that it would be disrespectful to the parents for you to say something like that? I'm sure my parents would be furious. No matter what you do, your parents will always be the first ones to back you up. I don't think you're insulting just one person here...</p>
<p>the only people i am insulting are people who are tolerable of academic dishonesty and stealing.</p>
<p>right, so college admins who admit people that show progress after mistakes, priests who listen to your confessions, God who forgives those that are repentful....and many, many more....</p>
<p>This guy cracks me up. It's easy to sound all moral and mighty on the internet, huh? I'm sure you've stolen something in your life, whether it's a piece of candy or 1000$, so don't try to act like you are so much better. As I have said, people are not perfect, and I don't expect people to be perfect. But your lack of understanding seems just as bad as stealing at this point.</p>
<p>Cheating is worse than petty theft. After all, the per-pupil cost of public education ranges from 5k to 20k a year, depending on where you live. If you successfully cheat on quiz, which may be responsible for say, 1% of that year's GPA, haven't you cheated the State of at least fifty dollars, if not more? Not only that, the ramifications of that cheating, last forever, falsifying your achievement on a transcript that you can never be proud of, worse than stealing perishable consumer goods.</p>
<p>Naturally, character flaw isn't a lapse in judgment. That is what I have been trying to stress. The thing I was getting at is, "Is this kid's 'sorry' genuine? Is he someone that deserves our help?" It is my opinion that fundamental character change needs to occur in order to redeem oneself from a cheating incident. It may have only been one incident, but the sort of moral and psychological barriers one must cross in order to cheat means many faults leading up to the incident has already been committed. Thoughtful, well-raised individuals in stressful situations do not suddenly decide to go ahead with cheating; the single incident of being caught usually suggests a long strong of pre-existing, previously-uncaught incidents.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm sure you've stolen something in your life
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You crack me up. The arrogance and pretension you assumed with that statement -- that everybody in the world must have cheated or stole once because it's acceptable in your school culture -- is worse than any haughtiness than 3365 is displaying.</p>
<p>i actually once did technically steal something; however, after much thought, i returned it. if you are interested, it was a pack of pokemon cards because my parents would not consider buying it for me. other than that, i have never stole anything and kept it. so if you think that i think i am better than people who steal, then yes you are correct.</p>
<p>Give it a rest and quit blowing things out of proportion. You did the same thing in that guy's thread about being possibly rescinded from U-Penn because SOMEONE ELSE egged him on into cheating. This one is slightly worse, since he acted pretty much out of his own free will, but still. I believe in the second chances, where you are allowed to mess up badly once, as long as the person learns from it and promises himself and others to never do it again. And by the way, I am NOT supporting what he did, but merely stating that railing on him like he is evil is just unnecessary.</p>
<p>Also, your comparison of this to rape is beyond laughable. Seriously, do you even read what you type?</p>
<p>Edit: This is a reply to post #49.</p>
<p>I agree with Galoisien.</p>
<p>Also, some of the posters here are forming bogus arguments. How are you to judge gal's circle of friends without ever knowing them? No one in my circle of friends cheats, and pretty much no one in my school does either. There are occasional incidents, but almost all of the students are pretty clean. </p>
<p>If galiosien chooses to make friends with those who are actually principled and have a sense of morality, then that's his choice. I don't see why you would have a problem with that. So his circle of friends is small because none of the people are disgustingly dishonest and unscrupulous! Oh no! I would rather have four of those friends, whom I truly respect, than the couple dozen of dubious ethical spirit I have right now.</p>
<p>@Collegeguy, who says that cheaters are just having a good time: Nice try. Cheating is wrong. Period. If you do it then you are committing an unjustifiable, unethical act. Period.</p>
<p>Tons of kids are stressed and don't cheat. To say that this was a simple lapse in judgment is not true. Even if someone just saw the test and decided to take it still made a conscious choice that continued as his body moved closer to the test and his hand reached to take it. It shows at best a lack of a steadfast code of ethics and at worst a lack of integrity. However, like galoisien, I believe that people can change. In that respect, writing a candid essay about the incident is probably the best thing to do. If the teacher is willing, a similarly honest letter to the college expressing how you have truly changed would also be helpful. Don't try to hide it, that will raise even more questions.</p>
<p>BTW: I have not cheated or stolen. By no means am I perfect: I struggle with my own demons, per se, but I have been stressed, tempted, etc. and didn't seriously consider going through with whatever I was thinking. Again, it is hard not to be too/not judgmental (/enough) in cases like this. However, remorse most likely leads to change.</p>
<p>Alright dude. My turn. </p>
<p>I wont say I never did nothing like that before, cause I did. I am almost positive that you (along with everyone else) are only sorry that you got caught. So was I. I seriously doubt that if you didnt get caught, you would've felt bad about doing it later. I just don't feel that's in anyone's true nature. </p>
<p>One thing i'm a little iffy about is if it's considered as 2 things. Cheating is one thing, stealing is another. Did they count it as 2 reports, or 1? Cause stealing and being suspended is more likely than cheating and suspension.</p>
<p>whoa, he never said anything about cheating or stealing being acceptable in his culture. Now you're being just as pretentious. Just because we're trying to stick up for the OP doesn't mean we commit or tolerate those kind of actions. </p>
<p>and no, no one is trumping 3365's arrogance</p>
<p>Heck, I am not even really sticking up for the OP. I am, however, countering gaiolosen's and 3365's horrible logic about what they believe is a "flaw in character". I do think the OP deserves to be punished, and I would leave it at that. But wow, these people are going way too far...it's rather sickening.</p>
<p>ok, let's be clear</p>
<p>I don't think anyone here is arguing that cheating isn't wrong. The fact of the matter is, the severity of cheating depends on specific incidents. Compared to someone who shows no remorse for what he did, I would have to say that I don't have any sympathy for that person. </p>
<p>However, the OP sounds like he regrets the whole situation and have said that he has learned great lessons from it. Don't go and say that he's fundamentally unstable. That's not something you can just generalize.</p>
<p>EDIT: I just realized, gailosen and 3365 reminds me of Nathan Price from the Poisonwood Bible</p>
<p>severity of incident does not matter. its like saying person A who killed 3 is better than person B who killed 6. it's the principle that counts.</p>
<p>^^ I agree. I actually don't know which is worse, galoisien's longwinded, sanctimonious arguments or the outright nonsense 3365 spews.</p>
<p>3365, first you say that you feel sorry for the OP's parents in having raised "such a child, and that the OP deserves "neither consideration nor respect," and THEN you go on to admit you stole a pack of Pokemon cards. From your post, you seem to be under the delusion that just because you returned the cards, you're somehow exempt from from being categorized with those other people who chose to steal in the first place.</p>
<p>...Wha....?</p>
<p>if A is remorseful while B isn't, I think there is a difference. At least in the eyes of God (I really did not want to bring that in, oh well)</p>