<p>My son goes to a prepaid tuition state college. People in state colleges get fine jobs, too. Otherwise there would be no state colleges.</p>
<p>I would like to see Rebecca back on the show later and see how it turns out.</p>
<p>momofthreeboys notes,"I think the number one “mistake” kids make (and parents, too) is to not understand what are the starting salaries for newly minted BA/BS/BFA "</p>
<p>Response: This is EXACTLY the problem. Many folks assume that graduating from a top name schoool will translate into huge starting salaries. Yes, there are a few jobs such as IB jobs that have gone to kids from top tier school.However, these a VERY few and far between. The reality is far different than the perception.</p>
<p>For example, I have seen statistics for median starting salaries for top tier vs. state schools. Starting salaries for top tier are from $30,000 t0 $60,000 ( not counting the very few jobs that pay above that). Starting salaries for a decent state university ( not necessarily top tier) would be $30,000 to about $50,000. Again, these are median numbers. Top state schools such as Berkeley match the top tier private schools in average salaries.</p>
<p>Thus, starting salaries, on the average, for top tier schools might…just might result in an extra $5,000- $10,000 (based on the statistics that I have seen) , which does also vary by the type of job as well. Taking taxes into account, this means that they might have an extra $3,200-$6,300 net income in starting salary only. Thus, incurring an extra $500 a month or more in college debt payments for 10 years or more would NOT economically justify going to a top tier school even if the student got that extra salary, which many do NOT get. Let me emphasize this again: Which many do not get! Moreover, all future salary increases are then determined based on performance, drive and personality. The cache of the school’s name never enters into the equation again</p>
<p>Likewise, even if NO debt is required, spending $200,000 more for an undergraduate education would likewise not be economically justifable for the possible small salary increase. In fact, if one were to invest the $200,000+, they would get returns greater than the potential median salary increase resulting from attending an expensive private school. As an accountant, I just can’t see how attending an expensive private school is economically viable over attending a decent in-state university especially if that state university will give the student a sustantial scholarship.</p>
<p>However, before I get flamed over this, I do understand that there are special circumstances that warrant going to a private school. These include special programs not available in state, learning disabilty programs, majors that are not available or of poor quality in state etc. </p>
<p>By the way, I met Suze Orman personally.We did a program together. Although I found her to be very obnoxious, she also feels strongly against sending kids to expensive private schools if there is a good in-state university alternative. She would be the first to say ( at least at that time) to take the free ride from decent state u vs. full pay from expensive named school unless the parents had more than enough money or income to fund their retirements.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>LOL Taxguy</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Taxguy, you seem to live in extremes. Many posters on this thread pointed out that they received scholarships to private schools, so the expensive private schools wouldn’t be as expensive for them.</p>
<p>Takeitallin…
Well, if you must know, I used to work and I made a lot of money that I invested and made even more money. This money is currently in a CD and will be used to pay off the student loans. Plus my husband and I own our home because when we purchased our home we chose NOT to buy our dream home and we chose something moderate. Our retirement is set because we have always lived on one income and my H’s job has a retirement system set in because he is a cop and has been for 24 years and will retire with full benefits.
“We resent people who refuse to live within their means and saddle the rest of us with their debt and with having to bail them out.”
I am not clear about this statement~who are you bailing out? Certainly not me! My point is that just because you made your choices, which with your S you didn’t have many options due to grades, does not mean that is the only, best, or right choice for someone else. I wouldn’t judge anyone for choosing an education of THEIR choice, that is a personal decision and if they suffer later that too will be their choice. I think that the best thing to do is to respect other people’s choices and not judge, everyone’s situation is unique and that is why I keep saying that it’s a personal choice.</p>
<p>"However, before I get flamed over this, I do understand that there are special circumstances that warrant going to a private school. These include special programs not available in state, learning disabilty programs, majors that are not available or of poor quality in state etc. "</p>
<p>No flaming from me. But, for some kids, going to a private school is less expensive or competitive with a state school. My D’s financial aid package from Williams was far less than the sticker price for the state flagship where my son currently goes. She did get a scholarship to the state flagship making the price difference about 1-2K/year. So, you might want to add the reason to go to a private is that they are sometimes less expensive for some kids (yes, there are a lot of some and if type words). </p>
<p>We and my D have no preconceived notions that she will be paid more as a result of going to an elite school. But, she has always wanted that type of small class and intense education with the community of a small campus. We think the 1-2K difference is worth it for her.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I disagree with everything you posted, madlock, but in particular that statement. I honestly believe that the “Rebeccas” are only saying what their parents and peers (via their own parents) have been telling them - they’re better than others and deserve the best education, which in their opinion is expensive private schools.</p>
<p>I came to this board years ago to try to understand why so many people choose expensive privates over less expensive publics. I’ve learned that there are good reasons to do so in some situations, but in the end I still believe that if you can’t afford it, you shouldn’t consider it, unless you’re throwing the dice to try for good non-loan financial aid aka a tuition discount.</p>
<p>I have no doubt that I would benefit from and fully appreciate a lengthy tour of the world. Tough luck - I’ll never be able to afford it!</p>
<p>I watched this when it aired, as I do every week, and all I must say is that girl is so naive. Seriously, she should be so grateful her parents were intelligent enough to guarantee her college tuition. She is such a brat.</p>
<p>She is also a complete moron - seriously, it’s not like she’s going to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, or Stanford - she wants to go to Drexel, but let’s put the cherry on top, to major in communications?</p>
<p>Oh man, what a dumbass.</p>
<p>Gtalum, of course I was assuming that the private school didn’t give a significant scholarship. Yes, getting a very significant scholarhip from a top tier school would be an exception to the rule. However, most of these top schools don’t give scholarships except for need. Even then, they can be fairly chincy.</p>
<p>Pea, if you met Suze Orman, I promise you that you wouldn’t have liked her. I found her to be very unappealing for many reason that I don’t care to state. In fact, I stopped doing any programs with her partly because of this.</p>
<p>I was wondering…there has been talk for a couple of years about the fact that the “bubble” in higher education will deflate in a few years. Is this really going to happen? When? Because the capacity of people being able to pay for higher education (whether state or private) has long outstripped tuition increases and at a much higher rate than inflation. Just like real-estate. Something has to give, right? </p>
<p>ps - (my son is out of college, and I don’t have much skin in the game, yet a lot of my friends do).</p>
<p>I found Suze Orman to be very condescending in her manners when she speaks. But she has for ages given good solid, sound, practical advice and I suppose we should thank her for it. When people were telling us to buy real-estate or stocks (at each point in the bubbles that came and went), she was giving good common sense tips.</p>
<p>"However, most of these top schools don’t give scholarships except for need. "</p>
<p>But, several of the Ivy’s and “Ivy like” will give significant money for those making less than 150K due to Harvard’s “middle-class” initiative. My point is, if you have Harvard like stats, elite and expensive schools may be an option for some kids at some schools (HYPS and maybe some elite LAC’s like Williams and Amherst). Out of the 8 schools (all claimed to meet demonstrated need) applied, 5 were “chincy.”</p>
<p>achat, Suze said
</p>
<p>I would like to hear more about this, but I assume that this lack of availability is the reason the bubble will burst.</p>
<p>Not to bash Drexel, but how is it that someone will pay 2X as much to go to Drexel over a Virginia school. I don’t believe that Drexel grads get a boost of any kind over a UVA, W&M, Tech, VCU, etc. graduate in terms of pay.</p>
<p>Widely speaking (and not in this case), many students and parents seem to base their college decisions purely off rankings. I don’t know how going to a private school can be worth twice as much money as opposed to going to a state university. By their own criterion (the rankings), many state schools must be very good seeing as there are 4 in the USNWR top 25.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That’s probably why she can be condescending. I have to admit, it does get grating to try to explain to a kid whose parents are divorcing and who are drowning in debt from legal bills and split property that it might be a bit challenging to take out $200k in private loans to pay for their dream education. I like to think that I could retain my sunny disposition if this was actually my job rather than something I do to give back to this community, but I honestly don’t think that I could. I think that if I had a Gardna Show I would be strangling starry-eyed NYU applicants by the 4th episode.</p>
<p>I agree that there is certainly a lot of misinformation and foolish thinking out there on the part of both parents and students.</p>
<p>However, I don’t understand the anger or self-righteousness of some of these posts. </p>
<p>How does anyone benefit from having an adversarial attitude?</p>
<p>I <em>did</em> save enough for both kids to go to elite privates by paying our very sizable mortgage in ten years. Both parents worked, I worked 1 1/2 jobs and still raised my kids without nannies or the like.</p>
<p>However, extreme business reversals ate up our money. I refinanced by house (yes mine from before I knew H) to bail out his business.</p>
<p>My H had told me he had a fully funded college fund managed by his accountant. Not true. My mom, who is very comfortable, told me not to worry about college, that she’d pay for it. She said, “Oh, I thought I’d be dead. I meant inheritance.” No reason to think that, her dad lived to be 100, and believe me, I’m not waiting for her to die for her money. I just wished she hadn’t led me on.</p>
<p>Okay. Two kids who were encouraged to aim high. Dad’s business fell apart just before D was about to go to college. In state school (best in state, not flagship) admitted her. But for many reasons was not a good match.</p>
<p>We are the people you would all be adversarial too – the kids with a sense of entitlement, yadayadayda. Well, she applied to many schools that promise to meet full need and three pretty much did. So she did get the education of her dreams.</p>
<p>Same exact scenario for S.</p>
<p>I think if the kids work very hard and have the stats to back them up there are many options beyond instates. For many kids, the instate options will still be best, financially, and meet their needs, but not for all.</p>
<p>Without being condescending, the only sad thing about Rebecca’s situation is that she doesn’t realize how good an education VA schools provide – yes, UVA and W & M, but also Mary Washington, VATech, JMU and even George Mason. </p>
<p>Her angst in unnecessary.</p>
<p>Excellent post, mythmom, I agree with so much of it. I never understand how people can be so judgemental and condescending, knowing just a snippet of information. How smart we all could be if we knew the future. I am sorry about your husband’s business, but glad your daughter got her dream education anyways.</p>
<p>Funny about Suzy Orman, taxguy. Sounds like she is as annoying and obnoxious in person as she is on tv. I can’t even listen to her for a minute, even if what she’s saying makes sense.</p>
<p>“I think if the kids work very hard and have the stats to back them up there are many options beyond instates. For many kids, the instate options will still be best, financially, and meet their needs, but not for all.”</p>
<p>Thanks mythmom. That’s exactly what I was trying to say. For my S, in-state is the best option. My D has other affordable options.</p>
<p>mythmom - great post. You restated something that was the main point of my post way back - “I think if the kids work very hard and have the stats to back them up there are many options beyond instates.” I would add the word “affordable”.</p>
<p>I don’t think the argument should be about instates vs. privates. The real point is planning ahead and having open, honest discussions within the family.</p>
<p>“However, most of these top schools don’t give scholarships except for need. Even then, they can be fairly chincy.”</p>
<p>The Ivy Group does not give merit $$ in principle. OTOH several of them have very generous need programs (grants for most or all the entire need package) for what they define as middle class families.</p>
<p>Outside the Ivy group, merit aid is not all that uncommon. Depends on the school and how much they want you. Of the 3 “match schools” that accepted our DD, two gave fairly generous grant packages. Neither would be quite as cheap as in state at our State schools, but both would a far cry from an all loan package. Given our daughters areas of interest and needs in terms of a campus where she can thrive, private u makes sense for us. </p>
<p>I think this is a really individual decision. You can’t second guess either way without all the facts.</p>