Swarthmore, Haverford, Williams, Middlebury, and Bates

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
1

<p>Those are the schools under consideration for my D after many college visits - several other were ruled out after visits (Colby, Bowdoin,....) because they just did not "feel right". Have yet to visit Swarthmore and Haverford. Interested in studying biology and mathematics, and participate in sports. Wants a strong and friendly academic environment but not overly intense, wants to be with students that enjoy the outdoors, wants environmental awareness and plenty of vegetarian options, wants to be in an active environment and participate in sports but not a "jock" or "fill-the-stands" environment. Most of all wants down-to-earth nice fellow students and teachers that are not snobby, pretentious, or preppy - and smart students that are not all about intelect or shows-offs. She can probably get in to any school, but does not feel a need to go to the most prestigious she can get in to. Wants a happy 4 years and a strong academic experience. Where? </p>

<p>She expected to like Middlebury most, but it almost felt "too nice" (Stepford Wives?). She was surprised to find that she really liked Bates - probably the least prestigious and easiest to get in to of the group. All visits were in the summer with no students around.</p>

2

<p>If you and your D are open to schools outside the Northeast, I would look into Whitman in Washington State. It is not really close to any major metro area, and perhaps for that reason has a great outdoors program. It is generally well regarded, has good merit scholarship aid, and has good science programs. Walla Walla is also a nice place to visit if you like wine tasting -- it is the premier and up and coming wine growing center in Washington, though it is a long drive from either Seattle or Portland and not all that much closer to Spokane.</p>

<p>Swarthmore has the largely deserved reputation as being quite academically intense. My daughter considered Haverford and Swarthmore in the end, and was concerned that Swarthmore would be just too much work after working so hard in the IB program in high school. In the end she decided on Swarthmore and loved it. Did just fine academically, too.</p>

<p>Interesteddad has personal knowledge of Williams and strong opinions on the subject. I leave it to him to give you his perspective, which I am sure he will.</p>

3

<p>Depends on whether she wants to be near a big city, such as Philly. Also suggest if possible she go to her top choices when there are students around. Does she like very cold weather? That's another consideration for the NE schools, such Bates, Williams or Middlebury.</p>

4

<p>If open to the midwest, how about Carleton (or Macalester or Oberlin?)</p>

<p>These schools strike me as having the qualities you described above ("strong, friendly academic environment, but not overly intense...Most of all wants down-to-earth nice fellow students and teachers that are not snobby, pretentious, or preppy - and smart students that are not all about intelect or shows-offs.")</p>

<p>Also agree that Whitman would fit this description, too.</p>

5

<p>My daughter considered two of the schools on your list, Williams and Swarthmore -- although she was familiar with all of them. She was kind of the inverse of dadx3's. Went to a decent but hardly intense public high school, was never terribly concerned about being able to handle the academics at Swarthmore, although she did do an overnight, talk to a lot of people, and sit in on classes to size it up for herself. Applied early decision, did fine, and loved pretty much every minute of her four years there, with the possible exception of the tail end of sophmore year when she was ready for a big study abroad adventure. A semester later, she was equally happy to be returning to Swarthmore from Argentina, China, and India.</p>

<p>While all of the schools you mention are fine schools and anyone would be lucky to attend any of them, they are almost jarringly different in some important ways. So maybe the thing to do would be to focus on the qualities that make Swarthmore unique (or more unique) in that comparison group.</p>

<p>[ul][li]I don't mean to take anything away from Williams and Haverford, which are as good as it gets academically, but Swarthmore is a championship caliber course played from the back tees. There are no easy birdie holes and par is a good score. There is something very special about the dynamics with students fully engaged in academics and challenging their professors. It is an amazingly cooperative acadmic experience with study groups, peer mentoring, and friends studying together as a part of daily life. For example, Swarthmore's student writing center is a model program that other liberal arts college wish they could match. IMO, it's the best undergrad academic program in the United States. Bio, Econ, and Poli Sci are the three most popular majors. A higher percentage of Swarthmore grads get Econ and Poli Sci PhDs than at any other college or university in the country. Swarthmore is third on the per capita Biology PhD production list, just behind CalTech and Reed College.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Swarthmore has by far the most ethnic diversity of the colleges you mention. It is one of the most diverse elite colleges in the country (only 56% white US students) and diversity is a defining quality of the school and the campus culture. There are no racially segregated theme dorms; the students won’t allow it. The school has been co-ed since its founding and the bylaws have always required an equal number of men and women on the governing board. The campus culture and the curriculum in almost every department is very heavily focused on international cultures. The diversity hits you instantly at any campus function -- orientation, parents weekend, etc. It's quite remarkable.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Swarthmore and Haverford share a location that is very, very different from the other schools you mention. They are not in the middle of rural New England, hours away from the nearest large city. From Swarthmore’s campus, a shopping mall is a ten minute walk, downtown Philadelphia is 20 minutes from train station on campus. New York City is two hours by train. The airport is 20 minutes by car, less than an hour by train. Swarthmore appeals to students who occasionally take a break from the ivory tower to sample life in the city whether it’s rock venues, symphony orchestra, art museums, theater, or just dinner with friends. A day trip on a charter bus from Swarthmore is going to Washington to lobby Congressmen about Darfur. Weatherwise, suburban Philly is a fairly mild climate with just enough winter for a taste, but not the heavy cold and snow of rural New England.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]I believe that Swarthmore’s mission statement is unique among the schools you mention in that, in addition to academics, it emphasizes two additional aspects of a Swarthmore education: ethical intelligence (the ability to examine all aspect of a complex problem and arrive at ethically sound options) and training to use the elite education to improve society in some way.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Swarthmore has the lowest binge drinking rate and fewest alcohol poisoning hospitalizations of the schools on your list, by a significant margin in several cases. While it has a sizeable per student athletic budget, Swarthmore has the least “jock” feel in term of campus culture, again by very significant margins in some cases. Swarthmore’s athletics are much more of a old-school student-athlete endeavor. Swarthmore does not have freshmen ghetto dorms. First year students, in all cases, live in dorms with experienced college students, which is a huge advantage in learning how to become a successful college student and in passing along a palpable campus culture. This is likely a major factor in the lower binge drinking rate.</p>[/li]
<p>[*]Swarthmore has the largest per student endowment (right at $1 million per student) and largest per student expenditures ($70k to $75k per student per year, not including financial aid). Williams is about the same. None of the others are close.[/ul]</p>

6

<p>Beautiful summary! They should give that to all prospective students to read!</p>

7

<p>Thanks you interesteddad, and others. Those are all excellent qualities for Swarthmore, and mostly factors that are important to my D as well. </p>

<p>Some additional factors we are trying to also understand that are important are the academic intensity, the location, the access to (and interest in?) the outdoors, degree of environmental awareness and programs, and suitability for dedicated vegetarians and vegans. My D is a terrific student, works very hard, will graduate first in her class at a quite competitive HS - but does not want to stress out over the academics. She works hard but likes to have a nice balance of acedemics and fun (sports, cooking, "playing"). She leaves the "brainy" stuff in the classroom, and is not real interested in political engagement and debates over the dinner table. She likes to go in to the city now and then, if available, but it is more important to be in a quiet and peaceful environment most of the time, and if there are hiking trails out the back door then that is a big bonus. She wants to be part of a student body that enjoys the outdoors, enjoy participating in sports but are not "jocky", are environmentally aware and concerned (w/o being hard core activists), and includes plenty of vegetarians/vegans who all have some good options on and off campus. You will never find a place where all the stars line up, so it is a matter of finding a place where most of the more important ones do, and that then has that right comfortable "feel" that just can't be well described with words.</p>

8

<p>It's hard to answer your daughter's questions with black and white answers. Colleges are collections of 1200 to 2700 individual students and it's not really accurate to to generalize:</p>

<p>
[quote]
My D is a terrific student, works very hard, will graduate first in her class at a quite competitive HS - but does not want to stress out over the academics. She works hard but likes to have a nice balance of acedemics and fun (sports, cooking, "playing").

[/quote]
</p>

<p>She would do fine academically at any of these schools. My daughter approached Swarthmore as a diligent, organized student. She went to her classes. She and friends made it a habit of going to the library every night after dinner. She did the assigned reading that had to be done. She took advantage of the study groups when appropriate and generally got drafts of papers finished early enough to do a cycle of revisions at the Writing Center. She did not spend four years "stressing out about academics", except of course during final exam week when papers are due and stuff. I don't know a college student who isn't "stressing out" one week per semester. I believe the first all-nighter she pulled was working on her senior thesis. </p>

<p>Are there students at Swarthmore who "stress out" over academics? Sure. My daughter used to tell prospective students on overnight visits that there are two kinds of people who shouldn't go to Swarthmore: students who have no intention of doing the work and students who are going to impose on themselves an arbitrary GPA that they must achieve "or else". Conversely, it's a wonderful place fo a student who intends to pick courses they enjoy and do the work because they are enjoying learning. It's not like high school.</p>

<p>
[quote]
She leaves the "brainy" stuff in the classroom, and is not real interested in political engagement and debates over the dinner table.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Some do, some don't. My daughter said that generally avoided debaters as dinner companions. She and her friends were hardly political zealots, but some are, of course. Having said that, she and her friends took courses together, some of which were so fascinating on issues that they couldn't avoid talking about them outside of class from time to time. I know they shared their adventures traveling around the world with each other.</p>

<p>
[quote]
She likes to go in to the city now and then, if available, but it is more important to be in a quiet and peaceful environment most of the time, and if there are hiking trails out the back door then that is a big bonus.</p>

<p>Swarthmore has an environmentally protected nature area on campus called the Crum Woods. I believe it's the largest natural habitat in the Philadelphia metro area. Students routinely walk in the woods, along the Crum Creek. </p>

<p>Crum</a> Woods - Garden Tour - Scott Arboretum</p>

<p>Swarthmore</a> College :: Crum Woods Stewardship Committee :: Crum Woods Stewardship Committee</p>

<p>Just walking around Swarthmore's campus is a pleasant hike. It is an arboretum with a $22 million endowment and the essentially the entire campus is maintained as a landscaped garden. It is stunning. </p>

<p>Here are a few of my favorite spots on campus:</p>

<p>Theresa</a> Lang Fragrance Garden - Garden Tour - Scott Arboretum</p>

<p>Scott</a> Outdoor Amphitheater - Garden Tour - Scott Arboretum</p>

<p>John</a> W. Nason Garden - Garden Tour - Scott Arboretum</p>

<p>Terry</a> Shane Teaching Garden - Garden Tour - Scott Arboretum</p>

<p>Dean</a> Bond Rose Garden - Garden Tour - Scott Arboretum</p>

<p>The aboretum gives every Swarthmore student a plant during freshman orientation and another during graduation. One of the coolest traditions is that every graduating senior goes to the Rose Garden the morning of graduation and cuts a rose to pin to the gown.</p>

<p>But, obviously, if you daughter wants to routinely hike, climb mountains, and cross country ski, or snowboard then the mountains of New England will be a better choice.</p>

<p>
[quote]
She wants to be part of a student body that enjoys the outdoors, enjoy participating in sports but are not "jocky",

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</p>

<p>Jocks that aren't jocky is kind of a narrow niche! I'm not sure how to answer that one. In general, Swarthmore's recruited varsity athletes are Swarthmore students first. They don't exist in a separate universe. In general, they don't wear their baseball caps backwards. But, are some of the jocks jockey? Some are, some aren't.</p>

<p>
[quote]
are environmentally aware and concerned (w/o being hard core activists),

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's also a narrow, if not mythical niche. Anytime you have an issue-oriented student group, such as an environmental organization, you are going to have some students are hard core activists and some who aren't. Swarthmore has a very active environmental group that has been very effective in pusing the college forward with green initiatives. They also have a significant environmental studies program with particular emphasis from the Engineering Department.</p>

<p>Swarthmore</a> College :: The Greening of Swarthmore :: The Greening of Swarthmore</p>

<p>
[quote]
and includes plenty of vegetarians/vegans who all have some good options on and off campus.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think all of these colleges have very sizeable veggie/vegan populations now. I know that Swarthmore does and that there is a whole section of the dining hall with veggie/vegan options at every meal. As far as dining options off campus, it's Philadelphia -- a metro area of 5 million people. I just had the best meal of my life at graduation when we went to Iron Chef Morimoto's restaurant downtown. Swarthmore kids tend to do more affordable dining: anything from the Iron Horse Brew Pub nearby to chinatown to Indian.</p>

<p>
[quote]
You will never find a place where all the stars line up, so it is a matter of finding a place where most of the more important ones do, and that then has that right comfortable "feel" that just can't be well described with words

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</p>

<p>Yep. That and the little matter of getting in. My gut says that, if your daughter is verbalizing that she doesn't want a demanding or intense academic college experience, then Swarthmore is not the right school for her. As I say, it's a championship course played from the back tees. On the other hand, I would probably be trying to tease out a bit more discussion on that topic. I think most high school students have no clue what college academics are like and are surprised to find out they are "really into it". I would strongy recommend that your daughter do an overnight visit somewhere soon and sit in on a couple of good college classes.</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
Those are the schools under consideration for my D after many college visits - several other were ruled out after visits (Colby, Bowdoin,....) because they just did not "feel right". Have yet to visit Swarthmore and Haverford. Interested in studying biology and mathematics, and participate in sports. Wants a strong and friendly academic environment but not overly intense, wants to be with students that enjoy the outdoors, wants environmental awareness and plenty of vegetarian options, wants to be in an active environment and participate in sports but not a "jock" or "fill-the-stands" environment. Most of all wants down-to-earth nice fellow students and teachers that are not snobby, pretentious, or preppy - and smart students that are not all about intelect or shows-offs. She can probably get in to any school, but does not feel a need to go to the most prestigious she can get in to. Wants a happy 4 years and a strong academic experience. Where?

[/quote]

I'm guessing Swarthmore isn't going to be the school for your daughter. Some of the places where Swarthmore and your daughter's list of preferences don't mesh well are that it is overly intense, there aren't a lot of good vegetarian options on within walking distance of campus, there's a high degree of intellectual showiness and pretension and, it's my guess that if you were to poll alumni about their experiences at Swarthmore, "happy" wouldn't rank in the top five adjectives used.</p>

10

<p>CuriousDas999,</p>

<p>Your daughter should try to do overnight visits. Both my son, who just finished graduate school (Brown BA, Columbia MFA) and my daughter who just started at Swarthmore, eliminated schools on the basis of school visits. </p>

<p>Schools that seemed to be "top" choices were discarded after spending time on some of the campuses. I would not rely solely on statements made by others, nor on the feel of campuses without students. For instance, A.E. has posted that there is high degree of pretension and showiness at Swarthmore. For years we have heard just the opposite from a number of alums and current upper classmen and we have not experienced either pretension or showiness during our visits. However, each person is entitled to their own opinions.</p>

<p>In the end my d did not apply to Middlebury and Williams, two of the schools on your list, because the schools were not as easily accesible to a big city as Swarthmore. Vassar and Brandeis were immdiately rejected upon visiting and talking to students. (Son declined Haverford's acceptance and was sold on Brown after an overnight visit.) Ultimately, for my daughter, although not critical, being able to visit her brother in New York, was one added factor that helped tip the scales in favor of Swarthmore when it came time to choosing where to accept and fortunaely she had some very nice choices before her.</p>

<p>Good luck in your quest!</p>

11

<p>If your daugther is looking for smart but not pretentious students, she could certainly find them at any of the schools mentioned. But she may also want to broaden the geographical scope and look at the Claremont consortimm schools -- Pomona and Claremont McKenna could be great choices for her. The students are first-rate and supportive of one another, the work is challenging, and the weather is great! You would find these schools on most lists of "happy students",</p>

12

<p>interesteddad: Thanks for posting all those amazing Swarthmore pictures. I can see how the environment really leads to the atmosphere you have always described.</p>

13

<p>Excellent thread. Thanks to the OP and specially "interesteddad" for a great and full of wonderful things about Swarthmore. My D is a junior now. She and I will definitely make a visit to this school.</p>

14

<p>CuriousDad99,</p>

<p>I'm just a freshman at Swarthmore, so I haven't lived here forever, but I think I can give some advice to your daughter.</p>

<p>The first piece of advice I have is that your daughter will probably get an excellent education at any of the schools you mentioned. They're all small liberal arts schools that are dedicated to education. Since I go to Swarthmore, I can't say much about Williams and Haverford and Middlebury and Bates. I can only say things about Swarthmore.</p>

<p>"Interested in studying biology and mathematics, and participate in sports."</p>

<p>I'm taking Intro to Bio right now (I think I failed the first exam.). The lab sections are pretty small and there are plenty of study group meetings to help you. The biology professors are dedicated to helping you learn. I don't know how many opportunities there are for biology research, since I'm not interested in majoring or minoring in biology, but I think the fact that a high percentage of graduates are biology majors does say something. You can certainly study math here as well. I don't know how one would rank the quality of math programs at several schools. You'll be learning the same things everywhere. I'm taking a first-year seminar in Honors Linear Algebra by Stephen Maurer, who is an excellent teacher. The class has eleven students, and it is important that you keep up with the material so that you can discuss some of the problem sets that we go over in class. Not all classes will be as small as mine, but most of the math classes are small, it seems.</p>

<p>"Wants a strong and friendly academic environment but not overly intense, wants to be with students that enjoy the outdoors,"</p>

<p>There is definitely a strong and friendly academic environment at Swarthmore. All of my professors are nice. I think the small size has something to do with it. The professors generally don't wear expensive suits and ties to class and give lectures to a crowd of students scribbling down notes. They get to know people's names and you do get a chance to ask them questions in class and get to know professors more. They're more like adult friends. I think my math professor actually prefers to be called 'Steve,' and he does respond to that.
As for 'overly intense,' it depends on what you mean by 'overly intense.' Your daughter's definition won't be the same as everybody else's. People here do have a lot of work, but most people don't seem to go crazy over it. They do their work, enjoy it, and still find time to do recreational things. So far I don't find it 'overly intense' (overly intense meaning so much work that I'm overwhelmed and want to cry), but classes are difficult for me. But even that isn't a definite statement, because you get to choose which classes you want to take. But wherever you go, you should be prepared to work hard. As for the outdoors, you probably won't find much of that at Swarthmore. I'm from Seattle, and I love going outdoors sometimes, but I don't think there's close access to the outdoors. There is Crum Woods, but that's not really outdoors, since that's part of the campus. Pretty much all of Swarthmore is grass and buildings and trees, but no secluded forest. </p>

<p>"wants environmental awareness and plenty of vegetarian options,"</p>

<p>Most people here, I think, are environmentally aware. There is an organization called EarthLust, which is pretty activist, but I'm not sure what your daughter is looking for. The students as a whole are environmentally aware, but the activists are the ones who do things about it. There are vegetarian options here--again, it depends on what your daughter means by 'plenty.' Certainly enough to eat here--there is always a vegetarian/vegan option for meals, but it might be largely restricted to salad and pasta. Still, there are vegetarians here. In fact, my dorm RA is a vegetarian.</p>

<p>'wants to be in an active environment and participate in sports but not a "jock" or "fill-the-stands" environment.'</p>

<p>You certainly don't have to be a jock to participate in sports here, and most of the people playing sports here are not jocks. There are some, though, as there will be at any school. I find that students are pretty active. They're not going to be stuck in their room studying 24-7. People here are quite social. I recently started writing for The Phoenix, the campus's newspaper, with no prior journalism experience, and I have joined the debate society with no previous experience either. There are so many things to do on campus--your daughter should have no trouble finding something she likes. And even if she does, she can always start something so that she can. </p>

<p>'Most of all wants down-to-earth nice fellow students and teachers that are not snobby, pretentious, or preppy - and smart students that are not all about intelect or shows-offs.'</p>

<p>I think you'll find that here at Swarthmore. None of my teachers so far are pretentious or snobby or preppy--you can sense that they really are into their subject and like to teach. Again, the professors don't wear clothes that make them look really 'apart' from the students--I think most of the professors are pretty down-to-earth, and so are the students. Most of my friends are smart, but they're not going to start talking all about Kierkegaard in order to brag about how much they know about him. At the dinner table, students will talk like 'normal' students. There will be some people who will talk about politics and stuff, but they usually stick to one table. I know the debate society members often talk together. </p>

<p>'She can probably get in to any school, but does not feel a need to go to the most prestigious she can get in to. Wants a happy 4 years and a strong academic experience. Where?'</p>

<p>Your daughter can certainly find a happy four years and a strong academic experience here, but she can at the other schools she's considering too. When it comes down to it, she'll probably get similar academics anywhere on her list. What matters now is the student body and the 'feel' of the place. By the way, remember that your daughter can apply to all these places and then visit later.</p>

15

<p>'but does not want to stress out over the academics. She works hard but likes to have a nice balance of acedemics and fun (sports, cooking, "playing"). She leaves the "brainy" stuff in the classroom, and is not real interested in political engagement and debates over the dinner table.'</p>

<p>It depends on her high school experience. People here definitely find time to play sports, cook, and play, and basically hang out with friends. You don't have to be interested in politics and debate--I mean, you will often see people talk about Obama and McCain here, but it's not going to dominate discussion, and people generally have 'normal' conversations here. </p>

<p>'She likes to go in to the city now and then, if available, but it is more important to be in a quiet and peaceful environment most of the time,'</p>

<p>That's definitely Swarthmore.</p>

<p>'and if there are hiking trails out the back door then that is a big bonus. She wants to be part of a student body that enjoys the outdoors,'</p>

<p>That's not Swarthmore. I mean, people here might enjoy the outdoors, but they're fine with the open and peaceful and quiet, secluded environment at Swarthmore.</p>

<p>'enjoy participating in sports but are not "jocky", are environmentally aware and concerned (w/o being hard core activists), and includes plenty of vegetarians/vegans who all have some good options on and off campus.'</p>

<p>You can't say that everyone here participates in sports, but people who play sports do find the time to play sports and most aren't jocky. There's little jock environment here. You don't have to worry about that here. I think people here are environmentally aware and concerned, and those who are really concerned become activists. I don't know how many vegetarians there are here, but I think vegetarians are perfectly happy here. You don't want to be in a college will be exactly like you. I don't know about the options off campus, but there's no need to abandon your 'vegetarianness' here.</p>

<p>I disagree with A.E. Again, my idea of 'overly intense' isn't the same as yours. You will be busy with academics, but if your daughter did graduate at the top of her class in a pretty competitive high school, she can certainly manage it. The work IS manageable. And you can always talk to professors if you do struggle. There are lots of people you can seek for help--professors, friends, academic mentors, residential assistants, writing assistants if you struggle with writing, and tutors.</p>

<p>Is there a high degree of intellectual showiness and pretension?
I don't think so. I mean, if someone mentions something that can be considered remotely intellectual, would that necessarily be pretentious? No. If people ask you if you've been enjoying history class, is that intellectually showy? No. Not too many people here talk about academics here at the dinner table. They might talk about the type of work they have for a certain class, but they're not going to be going mad debating Calvin and Luther or something like that. Plus, being intellectual does not mean that you are intellectual showy or pretentious. I have no idea why A.E. said that 'happy' would not describe alums. There is a close sense of community at Swarthmore. Looking at the faces of sophomores, juniors, and seniors, they look perfectly happy. It must be that students review website. Let me make it perfectly clear: That website does not accurately reflect the attitudes of students here.</p>

16

<p>DChow- Such a fantastic post! I looked at it because I'm familiar with the schools in the subject line. Although I don't know which schools you were deciding among, I'm sure you must feel very happy with your decision.</p>

<p>My only suggestion to those looking is that if you encounter someone that makes your view of Swarthmore, or any of the other schools in the list, very negative, or different from what you expect, I would encourage having a conversation with others. I write this because I believe the tour guide at Swarthmore gave my son the wrong impression of the school, and circumvented his looking more closely at Swarthmore.</p>

<p>DChow, unlike the Swarthmore tour guide, directly responded to the OPs questions. In contrast, the tour guide really did not respond to the interests of those in our tour.</p>

17

<p>dchow8</p>

<p>Nicely stated. </p>

<p>My d, who is also a freshman, has echoed your feelings about the students during some of our conversations. She has noticed that some of the kids are already stressed out but also made the observation that it seemed self induced for the most part and that they would have stressed anywhere. She is working hard but is also having a good time. She said that she has had time for work and play, is very happy with her classes and professors, but the best part is the kids that she has met.</p>

18

<p>re two things i'm very familiar with: one. the veg culture. there are A LOT of vegetarians here when numbers are compared to a random sampling of the country's population. i've met several other vegans as well (there are six vegetarians on my hall, half of which are vegan. it's awesome). sharples has a vegetarian bar, and all of the food seems to be better than/as good as the regular offerings; additionally they are always open to suggestions. people are pretty aware about vegetarianism in general here, and not only does earthlust exist and is awesome, as dchow mentioned, but the ARC--the Animal Rights Coalition--is small but exists on campus as well. they do lots of advocacy/awareness-raising things. the good food project, which focuses on gardening and bringing fresh, local food to sharples, among similar issues, is also rather vegetarian-oriented. media, just a few minutes away, has a good indian restaurant with lots of veg options, and heng's thai, across the street, has tons of AWESOME veg options. even the local chinese restaurant, cheng hing, will deliver to your door hot vegetarian pork or chicken with shiitake mushrooms, fresh vegetables, and brown rice, all within fifteen minutes of your call. of course, as has been mentioned, philly is a not-so-bad septa or shuttle ride away (i've been to philly three times this year already and have plans to go again in two weeks). horizons, just off of south street, is the most sublimely indulgent places to eat ever and is totally vegan. definitely worth going to if you manage to save a little extra up. but a myriad of other vegetarian restaurants of varying price ranges exist in philly, including a street cart vendor that sells quick vegan food during the spring/summer/fall. or you can venture to whole foods and load up on their gigantic hot bar's offerings and bring back some goods to put in your fridge when sharples is just not cutting it for your vegetarian appetite. (there's also a slightly less impressive whole foods not so far from campus, near villanova, and a trader joe's exists a few minutes away in media).
a vegetarian will likely feel more comfortable and happy at swat than anywhere in the "real world".</p>

<p>re outdoorsiness: i'm also an outdoors person. i LOVE the crum and go there about every other day. it's magnificently beautiful and great for running and simple rock climbing/hiking. it's usually not very crowded. i only see people about once every twenty minutes or so on even the nicest of days. i would highly recommend the crum for outdoors fixes at swat. it works. but when you learn all the trails in the crum a bit too well, there's the outsiders club! this group goes on hikes/rock climbing events/orchard fruit picking/to other outdoor activities at least once a week weather permitting. there's no need for concern. despite the proximity to philly, there are ample opportunities to get your nature on while at swarthmore.</p>

<p>this is a great place.</p>