<p>How do the two compare academically? Is Swarthmore more intense? What is the average class size at Brown?</p>
<p>swarthmore is more homogeneous in academic intensity--the hardcoreness is a part of the culture so professors always assign a lot of work and students always do a lot of studying. swarthmore also has a tradition of sending their more of their undergrads into academia than other places.</p>
<p>at brown, it is considerably more variable because of the open curriculum. some people take five difficult classes a term and study constantly. a small minority takes most of their classes pass/fail. most people are somewhere in between.</p>
<p>both schools are similar in terms of being politically active, socially aware, and generally quirky.</p>
<p>the major differences between the schoosl are social. swarthmore is very small and isolated, and the composition of the student body reflects this (people are more introverted, non-sports oriented, and stereotypically geeky). though swarthmore is close to philly, students seldom venture off campus.</p>
<p>brown is larger, more diverse, and in a small city setting. it is also a research institution so opportunities to do research and have classes taught by famous faculty are much greater.</p>
<p>ecape, </p>
<p>I had one (daughter) graduate from Swarthmore a year and a half ago, and have a son at Brown now. I agree with dcircle that the intensity of study at Swarthmore is beyond what is required at Brown, though you can certainly study hard at Brown. </p>
<p>There was a group of athletically inclined students at Swat when my daughter was there, in fact, her roommate was an athlete. However, the athletes don't define themselves solely according to their athletic affiliations at Swarthmore. Brown is surely less concerned about athletics than most colleges, though this fabulous year in football may be making a difference. </p>
<p>Both of my kids have been able to experience building relationships with faculty; at Swarthmore it is sort of an expectation, and at Brown, it is a nice surprise, especially since my son is a first year. At both schools, students are wonderfully friendly, and a great effort was made to orient the kids to the environment.</p>
<p>I agree that the size of Brown makes it possible to have a number of opportunities not available on a smaller campus. It also allows a degree of anonymity, in a sense: at Swarthmore everyone knows everyone else, while at Brown it is possible to meet new people all the time. And, in my son's lingo, it is possible to "fly under the radar" sometimes, which can be handy if you aren't prepared for class. At Swarthmore, most classes are so small that you have to have your act together, and if you miss class, it will be known!</p>
<p>I do have to differ with dcircle only in one area, that of the proximity to Philly being an asset for Swarthmore: my daughter is really interested in the arts, and made extremely good use of the easy 15 minute train ride into Philly. The train actually stops on the Swarthmore campus. It is a 45 minute trip from Brown to Boston , which admittedly is a fabulous place.</p>
<p>I think you can tell that these are both very special places. Just think of the types of folks you would be happiest with, and which type of environment. Good luck!</p>
<p>ecape,</p>
<p>In answer to your question about average class size at Brown, the real point is that class size varies greatly. All of my son's classes are small this time, (between 11 and 20) and he wishes he were in at least one big lecture section (again, that radar thing.) So, because the curriculum is open, to a large extent you can pick and choose.</p>
<p>I'm sure you can take a lot of classes and work hard at Brown. The grade inflation, though, has me a bit worried.</p>
<p>Personally, i'm more worried about grade deflation. For those who want to go to professional schools, grade inflation becomes quite helpful.</p>
<p>Which is harder to get into?</p>
<p>Depends on what kind of student you are. </p>
<p>Brown has a lower admit rate, but Swarthmore has a higher SAT median.</p>
<p>you have to work hard for your grades at both schools, if that is your concern. employers and grad schools have great respect for both schools as well and graduates tend to do very well. (the top employers of brown seniors are the peace corps and goldman sachs, and the overwhelming majority of students get into their top choices for med, business, and law school for instance)</p>
<p>14.5% of applicants are admitted to brown, ~24% are admitted to swarthmore</p>
<p>edit: they're both obviously very selective...the admit rate is higher at swarthmore because it is a LAC and gets less applicants. the SAT median is lower at brown for similar reasons--it has more students (there are more students with "lower" scores at brown, but there is also a larger absolute number of students with perfect scores)</p>
<p>if you are applying as a transfer, which would you say is more difficult? swat or brown?</p>
<p>swat. definitely. pinkearmuffs, what are your stats?</p>
<p>well im only a freshman so we haven't gotten our first semester college gpa yet. but my high school stats were a 1420 sat 1, 710-730 range on three subject tests, and 4.0 uw gpa, approx 4.29 weighted. but i need fin aid, and brown is need aware, so i'm thinking i will not to apply to brown, and apply to swarthmore instead. i just don't know how hard swat really is....</p>
<p>pinkearmufs:</p>
<p>How come you want to leave Berkeley? Just curious.</p>
<p>Well if you have at least a 3.6 college GPA, ECs and essays will be the most important part of applying to Swarthmore.</p>
<p>k thanks. so you think my high school stats are good enough then?</p>
<p>Well, you wouldn't have gotten in on those alone, but I think they are high enough not to hinder you. If you could raise your SAT to around 1500, that might help some too, but I really have no idea about that for sure. If financial situation is an issue for you, and you want a LAC, you might also check out New College of Florida, one of the best public liberal arts colleges. It doesn't have the name of Brown or Swarthmore, but it does a pretty good job with grad placement and the program is very individualized.</p>
<p>i'd apply to Brown pinkermuffs, you've got a good shot even with the need issue.</p>
<p>I'd say, wait until you know what your first semester GPA is like. THAT will likely be more important than your high school GPAs, as high schools come in all levels.</p>
<p>If you really want to transfer, pinkearmuffs, I would include some match or safety schools in addition to Brown and Swarthmore. They are very tough, i.e., reach schools for everyone. Out of 11 college apps, these were the only 2 schools that rejected my daughter last year (Brown deferred her ED). Her stats: SAT I 1530 (Nat. Merit Finalist/Scholarship Winner); SAT II 800,800,780; GPA 4.0 UW, 4.6 W; Salutatorian; musician. By all means apply, but with a safety net.</p>
<p>I will say that I was accepted to Swarthmore with fairly lower stats than these. Character, as displayed through essays and EC list, can be as or more important than stats. But yes, Brown and Swarthmore are not sure bets by any means. Where did your daughter end up?</p>