Swarthmore vs. Harvard/Yale for Undergrad

<p>I know there is a big difference between LACs and Universities, but for someone who wants to focus on undergrad at the best university in the country (which means rockstar professors) or an elite undergrad institute (which means accessible professors), the choice is difficult. I know Harvard carries a lot of prestige to its name, but I don't know if this equates to the best education you can have in undergrad, especially if the professors aren't supportive.</p>

<p>For one, I feel like I'm a better fit for Swarthmore's intellectual culture, but I've worked hard in high school and want to balance my life a bit more. Swarthmore's undergrad may be more rigorous than Harvard and not necessarily more helpful in the longrun for grad school prospects. Grade deflation vs. Grade inflation... that's a tough one to choose. However, I don't want to feel miserable/inferior being next to multitalented superstar kids who are nationally recognized leaders in some EC. </p>

<p>I do care about job prospects, and Harvard may be better than that. Its classes may be easier than Swarthmore's too. </p>

<p>But then there's Yale, which I believe is sort of like Harvard, but more intellectual and even more undergrad and humanities focused than Harvard. I consider this sort of a middle ground between the two? I don't know. But Cambridge is a much more appealing place than New haven.</p>

<p>Thoughts?</p>

<p>It appears from what you want that Yale gives you the best of Swarthmore and the best of Harvard…</p>

<p>Yale wins on this one…</p>

<p>I’ll refer you to this thread, in which a Yale student explains why Yale was a better option.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=187335[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=187335&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I’ve heard of Swarthmore. Never heard of the other two.</p>

<p>Harvard is very undergrad- and humanities-focused. I know that seems counter-intuitive to most people, but it really is. That said of course, there could be no wrong decision among these three.</p>

<p>You need to visit, if you haven’t. Go to the one that feels like the best fit.</p>

<p>The only thing I can say with certainty is that alumni from each of the three schools will be utterly convinced that their respective alma mater is the best and the only reasonable choice :)</p>

<p>Best, yes. Only reasonable choice, no. Can you stay overnight at 2 or 3?</p>

<p>Swarthmore hands out a study showing that LACs generate more future doctorates on average out of their students compared to the big schools.</p>

<p>Do they count law degrees as doctorates?</p>

<p>I’d choose Swarthmore actually. A couple of points:</p>

<ol>
<li>Grad schools have heard about grade deflation. I don’t know why people keep presuming that their grad school applications will be evaluated out of context when context is so important in undergraduate admissions. And yes, I know about the whole potential-vs-achievement-as-a-selection-criterion thing, but please. Reed’s average GPA is 3.08 and yet it is one of the most successful colleges in the US in terms of grad school placement*. Maybe because documented grade deflation isn’t actually as detrimental to one’s career prospects as most 17-year-olds think it is? Just a thought.</li>
</ol>

<p>*shamelessly pimping my own college, sorry</p>

<ol>
<li>Princeton is generally assumed to provide the most rigorous academic experience out of the holy trinity of international prestige ™. Not Yale, that’s the one where you get the option to make a colorful poster that’s worth 40% of your grade instead of writing a research paper (okay, I’ve only heard this from one person). And Harvard is associated with intimidating drive and ambition. If you’re comfortable using stereotypes and generalizations about student culture as arguments in this debate, you should be aware that neither Yale nor Harvard is <em>known</em> (you know, stereotyped) for the things you seem to be looking for in a school.</li>
</ol>

<p>That being said, you can’t go wrong here. All three are tremendous options and I’m sure that you’d be able to find what you’re looking for at any one of these schools.</p>

<p>Hunt - I believe we are talking only Ph.D.s
<a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/ir/BaccOrigins06.pdf[/url]”>http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/ir/BaccOrigins06.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>[nsf.gov</a> - NCSES Baccalaureate Origins of S&E Doctorate Recipients - US National Science Foundation (NSF)](<a href=“http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/]nsf.gov”>http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/)</p>

<p>I think it would be nuts to choose among these three schools based on how “intellectual” they are. That’s completely overwhelmed by the difference between a small LAC and a larger university–that’s the first decision, and it really has to do with fit. Between Harvard and Yale, the differences are even more negligible–seriously, go to the one you like better after visiting.</p>

<p>This is like deciding among two cars, a Mercedes or a BMW, and whatever the equivalent motorcycle would be.</p>

<p>ooo - motorcycle is cool for a college kid! </p>

<p>seriously, if there are no financial considerations, one would think swarthmore should be out of this title. We got enough problems trying to solve harvard vs yale.</p>

<p>I completely agree with Hunt (#13). </p>

<p>From our experience, my son (and I) would have chosen Swarthmore over Harvard or Yale. Granted, the bigger schools try to be undergrad-focused, but Swat has no choice in the matter. :D</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>A little surprised that it is this low. Princeton, with grade deflation and all is about 3.38.</p>

<p>how recent is this and can you supply some type of link…</p>

<p>I know a few kids from our area, all of whom were unhappy at Swarthmore. Two transferred, one “stuck it out” (he wanted to transfer to UCLA, his original first choice, but he would have had to wait until junior year) but managed to do a few semesters, through some sort of exchange, at some other LACs, thus abrupting his time at Swarthmore. The three students echoed each other in their disappointment of Swarthmore–the academics were fine but the social enough was not their cup of tea. </p>

<p>Your talking about top-notch schools, academically, so, maybe, move on to some more holistic criteria for judging your considered colleges.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>[Reed</a> College | Office of the Registrar | Transcripts and Grades](<a href=“http://web.reed.edu/registrar/transcripts.html]Reed”>Transcripts & Diplomas - Office of the Registrar - Reed College)</p>

<p>Scroll down and click on [Grades</a> at Reed](<a href=“http://web.reed.edu/registrar/form_downloads/grades.pdf]Grades”>http://web.reed.edu/registrar/form_downloads/grades.pdf), which is a .pdf. The information is from 2009-2010.</p>

<p>Granted, the GPA of the graduating class is said to be 3.2, and 3.08 is the average for all students.</p>