How do these two compare in terms of student caliber, academic rigor, future prospects? Some said Midd is more like Williams, Is that accurate?
My impression was that swarthmore students were more intense (this does not mean smarter, stronger, or anything of the sort) and maybe a little more pre professional.
Williams and Middlebury are both very rural so they similar in that sense. They are probably more similar than not overall.
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This reply includes comments on Middlebury and Williams in the context of comments on other liberal arts colleges: Struggling with D21's List. ED & ED2: Amherst, Hamilton, Wellesley, Vassar - #7 by merc81.
These two schools are quite different. Academically, they are both excellent. But the overall vibe is very very different.
Swat is known for its intensity. One student I knew there loved it because âif I decide to work on Friday night, thatâs not unusual and I wonât be disturbed by people having fun in the hall.â
Midd is probably more fun but it doesnât mean the students arenât smart and hardworking.
Midd is pretty much in its own rural bubble while Philly is a hop skip and a jump away from Swat. Midd makes most of its own entertainment. Youâll have other options at Swat.
There isnât a âbetterâ here, just best for you. Employers and grad schools would probably take that view as well.
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I agree with all of the comments already posted. Swarthmore and Middlebury are very different. A couple more random thoughts that quickly come to mind âŠ.
Swarthmore is progressive, liberal, politically active, diverse, inclusive, and very LGBTQ friendly. I read about a poll taken at Swarthmore, I canât remember where I came across it, that almost 40% of its current students identify as LGBTQ. It is tucked away in a nice, quiet upper middle class suburb of a major US city. It has a strong reputation for engineering compared to most other small liberal arts colleges.
Middlebury is located in a very cute and fairly isolated small town. It is commonly compared to Dartmouth. Quite a few students who seriously consider Dartmouth also consider Middlebury, and vice versa. It is more politically moderate or dare I say a little more socially and politically conservative compared to the more liberal Swarthmore. Middlebury attracts outdoorsy, sporty, middle to upper class students. It has a strong reputation for the study of languages.
They are both excellent colleges. Although admission to both colleges is difficult, Swarthmore is slightly more competitive. Although both colleges are academically strong and rigorous, Swarthmoreâs reputation is that it is probably the most academically rigorous liberal arts college in the United States. At an event I attended last year, Jim Nondorf, the Dean of Admission at the University of Chicago likened the academic culture at Swarthmore to UChicago.
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40% LGBTQ seems very, very high: Gallup estimates that 7% of the US population are LGBTQ. I couldnât find a source for that number- I did find lots of âvery LGBTQ friendlyâ comments, a 4.5/5 from Campus Pride, and ranked #17 in LGBTQ-friendly schools. Putting that 40% out into the ether w/o a source risks casual readers accepting it as fact, rather than a half-remembered nugget from a poll of unknown provenance and rigor.
Overall, I agree with all of the other posts: both schools have smart, academically oriented students. Midd kids have a somewhat more extroverted reputation (and the application overlap with Dartmouth reflects that, as well as the attraction to outdoor activities); Swatties have a more introverted and intellectually intense reputation. In terms of âfuture prospectsâ there is nothing between them. The Collegekids who visited either/both schools knew pretty fast whether they were interested or not.
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DD applied to both. Liked Swarthmore was meh on Middlebury. Loved UChicago.
I also donât think they are academically known for the same things. I think of Swat as standout in things like CS or neuroscience while Mid is famous for their languages and English programs.
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Huh? I know a very talented young man now at Middlebury majoring in neuro- heâs already had an incredible internship and is doing research with a professor which is likely to lead to him attending an international conference next year to present their findings; Swarthmore has always been a powerhouse in the traditional LAC departments- history, literature, etc.
Yes, Middlebury is renowned for its strength in foreign languages. But there are so many overlaps academically (strong, well regarded programs) that I think your comments overstate realityâŠ
Across recent years, however, the interest of Swarthmore students in the humanities as a source for a major has declined substantially.
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I did not mean either is not good at the other things, itâs just not what it jumps to my mind. FWIW my applicant was a History major.
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I donât really have anything to add, other than that you should choose based on fit variables like academic fit (check out the distribution requirements, courses and majors, etc.), location/setting, vibe, and cost.
Midd is the sportier school, while Swat is the nerdier school â talking overall here, as both schools will have a variety of kids. Thatâs just the overall vibe we hear on here.
In terms of overall quality, they are peers. Everyone in academia respects them strongly, and any HR pro worth a darn is aware of their strength.
You are largely, IMO, deciding between academic and social vibe, as well as setting/location⊠assuming cost is similar.
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Swat at around 1,600 students is quite a bit smaller than Middlebury at 2,900. That can make a difference for some students. Swat is part of a consortium with Bryn Mawr and Haverford, and has cross-reg with Penn, but I am not sure how many students take advantage of these options. Swat is suburban with easy access to Philly, Midd is remote.
I agree Swat is more academically intense, and students likely closer to the competitive side on the collaborative:competitive continuum as compared to Midd.
Both schools are LGBTQ+ friendly. I donât see a more recent number for percent LGBTQ at Swat, but in 2018, about 29% of students reported something other than straight for their sexual orientation, here. The most recent Midd student survey showed 41% of students (who answered the survey and then the question, n=1114) identify as lesbian, gay, bi, queer, or questioning. Note that college age students report 2.5x-3x the rate of LGBTQ status as compared to the general population, and I expect that is higher in more liberal geographies such as the Northeast. 17% of college students identified as LGBTQ+ in this 2018 survey and 21% in this 2020 survey.
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very helpful post, @Mwfan1921âŠand I wish all those students who come on CC giving their sexuality as a âhookâ or something that colleges might wanting more of could see it!
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Agree with most of the characterizations here. Midd is also a leader in environmental studies and has a strong global presence, with schools abroad in 16 countries and Puerto Rico. Undergrads can also enroll in classes at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies in Monterey, California.
One point I disagree with is the notion that Swat students tend to be more preprofessional. I think itâs the opposite. Midd grads are just as likely (if not more likely) to attend grad programs in business, law, and medicine, while Swat grads are more likely to earn PhDs and enter academia.
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Of course I agree with you that the 40% number seems extremely high. And I knew that I would receive criticism after providing this anecdote. That is why I also provided the caveat that unfortunately I did not take notes on where I came across the poll. I read about it at least one year ago. It was shockingly high to me when I read it, and the main reason I even remember it is because it was a memorably high number.
Thank you to Mwfan for providing similar helpful references! But I can say that if you have spent any time at Swarthmore, as I have - subjectively, you would not feel that it is that far fetched.
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Probably taking the same classes as my Midd daughter, also a neuroscience major. Sheâs done two internships at UChicago, has presentations and has publications that are in the submission stage. She is now choosing between three post-bacc (1-2 year post undergrad jobs at academic or research labs, common for students who are PhD-bound) offers at top universities.
Midd is actually strong in Neuroscience, in particular. So that particular choice is possibly wrong. Swat is stronger in the physical sciences, but not Life Sciences. Swat is also stronger in math and actually has engineering majors, while Middlebury has stronger Social Sciences. Swat is stronger in CS, as well.
Swat is more intense, and has a higher percent of students who are PhD-bound - I think that itâs #3 of all colleges, following only Caltech and HMC (Midd is #41).
But the biggest differences are well described above, and have to do with the characters (or vibes) of the colleges. More than for any other type of college, the match between the character of a LAC and that of a student is really important in the success of the student. So I think that a person who is a better fit for Middlebury should not choose Swarthmore because it has a better CS programs, and a person who is a better fit for Swarthmore should not select Middlebury because it has a better environmental studies program.
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40% LGBTQ+ is not unreasonable for a liberal, liberal arts college. In fact, my own alma mater (Carleton) is approximately 35 to 40 percent LGBTQ . I believe Grinnell has an even higher percentage.
The 7% figure you cite from Gallup is for all age groups. That same poll shows that over 20% of Generation Z identify as LGBTQ:
Other poll have shown similar results.
The A2C subreddit conducts an annual census, and their poll shows that 32% of r/ApplyingToCollege students identify as non-heterosexual:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/o4hbl5/ra2c_2021_census_results_class_of_2025/
(Slide #4)
Basically, the younger you are and the more liberal you are, the more likely you are to identify as LGBTQ. Among the top dozen or so LACs, only Grinnell and Carleton are more liberal than Swarthmore. OTOH, Carleton and Grinnell are in small rural Midwestern towns, while Swarthmore is in the suburban Northeast. It really wouldnât surprise me if Swarthmore had approximately the same percentage of LGBTQ students.
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If possible try to visit both options. When my D looked at LACs (not the ones you asked about) we felt that they each had a pretty distinct âvibe.â Some she loved and others she dismissed after visiting. It comes down to personal preference.
There are a number of outstanding LACs â the important thing to remember is that a personâs future (employment/grad school success) will be determined much more by what he/she accomplishes at college rather than which college he/she attends.
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