<p>I'm having a lot of trouble with this decision. I really liked my visit to both, and I could really imagine myself at either, I think. </p>
<p>What if I decide to major in econ? Should I go to UChicago, which has a fantastic (but from what I hear, competitive) econ department? What if I decide not to major in econ? Is a LAC better for this academic experimentation? I definitely want to go to grad school.. Which school better for that?</p>
<p>I NEED HELP. Thanks!</p>
<p>As for grad school. Swarthmore has the 3rd highest percentage of graduates getting a PhD over most recent 10 year period in the country, behind only two tech schools: CalTech and Harvey Mudd.</p>
<p>Swarthmore has the highest percentage of graduates getting Social Science PhDs over that period.</p>
<p>And, to address your specific question, a higher percentage of Swat grads have gotten an Economics PhD than any other college or university in the country -- and it's not even close. On a percentage basis, more than three times as many Swat grads have gotten an Econ PhD than UChicago grads:</p>
<p>
**PhDs in Economics per 1000 grads**</p>
<p>PhDs and Doctoral Degrees:
ten years (1994 to 2003) from NSF database</p>
<p>Number of Graduates:
ten years (1989 to 1998) from IPEDS database</p>
<p>Note: Does not include colleges with less than 1000 graduates over the ten year period </p>
<p>1 Swarthmore College 16
2 Grinnell College 7
3 Williams College 7
4 Carleton College 7
5 Harvard University 6
6 Agnes Scott College 6
7 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5
8 University of Chicago 5
9 Yale University 5
10 California Institute of Technology 5
11 Princeton University 5
12 Macalester College 5
13 Stanford University 4
14 Pomona College 4
15 Oberlin College 4
16 Wellesley College 4
17 Trinity University 4
18 Bowdoin College 3
19 Earlham College 3
20 Berea College 3
21 Amherst College 3
22 Wabash College 3
23 Bard College 3
24 Rocky Mountain College 3
25 Coe College 3
26 Wesleyan University 3
27 College of William and Mary 3
28 Colby College 3
29 Columbia University in the City of New York 3
30 Hillsdale College 3
31 Franklin and Marshall College 3
</p>
<p>Academically, you can't go wrong either way. So choose by other things that could distinguish one from the other ( suburban vs. urban campus, Chicago vs. Philadelphia, weather, size, core curriculum (yes/no), distance from home, etc.)</p>
<p>Now that the statistics are out of the way:</p>
<p>You've visited both schools. You have to prioritize what you are looking for in a school: location, size, diversity, style of teaching, campus culture, and all the other tangible and intangible aspects. Then, you have to decide, in your gut, where you think you will flourish. There's no one right answer.</p>
<p>In general, I think the majority of students who choose between Chicago and Swarthmore choose Swarthmore. The endowment per student, all focused on undergrads, means a level of per student spending that Chicago can't touch and a true boutique style highly-interactive education. IMO, no body offers a stronger undergrad academic experience than Swarthmore. Period.</p>
<p>However, there are also valid reasons for choosing Chicago. If you are planning to study an specialized niche field, it's quite possible that the larger school offers it and Swarthmore doesn't. Or, if you are a child prodigy and you are already deep into advanced college level courses, then you may need to choose a school where you can move quickly to grad school courses. That's not the case for most students, but it is the case for some. Or, you may simply prefer the more anonymous student experience at a larger school.</p>
<p>Good luck choosing between two excellent schools.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And, to address your specific question, a higher percentage of Swat grads have gotten an Economics PhD than any other college or university in the country -- and it's not even close. On a percentage basis, more than three times as many Swat grads have gotten an Econ PhD than UChicago grads:
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, this is deceptive because more Chicago econ students are recruited for jobs straight out of undergrad. Going to Swarthmore won't give you an advantage in grad school admission over Chicago - the two are about equal in reputation. Moreover, at Chicago, something like 20% of students are econ majors, and so many of these are not particularly dedicated to the field - they're just interested in the prestige that Chicago econ will bring to their careers. I doubt such is the case with Swarthmore, as it doesn't have a particular field in which it stands out as being extremely prestigious.</p>
<p>If 1 out of every 5 Chicago grads is an Econ major, then that makes their Econ PhD production look even worse. Remember, these are the number of Econ PhDs as a percentage of TOTAL graduates from each school. The more Econ majors, the more Econ PhDs you should expect. </p>
<p>I don't think PhD production is irrelevant to someone who says he or she is definitely interested in Economics and graduate school.</p>
<p>Actually, Swarthmore does have a particular field in which is stands out: Economics. And Social Sciences in general. It's also the top per capita producer of Political Science PhDs in the country.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't think PhD production is irrelevant to someone who says he or she is definitely interested in Economics and graduate school.
[/quote]
It definitely is irrelevant if the person is looking to go to graduate school for an MBA, which a lot of econ majors are. In the context of this discussion, without further knowledge of what the OP is really looking for out of an econ-based career, Ph.D. productivity statistics are useless.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If 1 out of every 5 Chicago grads is an Econ major, then that makes their Econ PhD production look even worse. Remember, these are the number of Econ PhDs as a percentage of TOTAL graduates from each school. The more Econ majors, the more Econ PhDs you should expect.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, the PhD stats would look even worse, but if MBA stats were shown, Swarthmore would indeed be embarrassed by UChicago. Many UChicago econ majors are looking at the econ major as a pre-professional major, as opposed to one that would lead into research/teaching.</p>
<p>Data on MBAs please? Or, are you just guessing?</p>
<p>If you're using Chicago solely to get a "leg up" in the business world, I think you'd be disappointed by Chicago's undergraduate academic culture, which I think is remarkably similar to this charming liberal arts school a few miles away from Pennsylvania.... ;-)</p>
<p>From what I've seen and heard, Swarthmore and Chicago are very, very, very, very, very similar. When I hear my Swattie friends complain about Swat, and when I read what posters say on this forum about Swat, I could all too easily swap out "Swat" and replace it with "Chicago." When I look at my Swattie friends' facebook albums.... again.... same kids, same stuff, same posters hanging on the walls of the dorm room.</p>
<p>As far as differences go, I think Swarthmore prides itself on its Quaker origin and because of this I think the school tends to be more "fuzzy" or "activist" than Chicago. Chicago kids tend to seesaw a little bit more on social and political issues.</p>
<p>I think you should ask yourself whether you'd be happier in a liberal arts college setting or a research university setting. There are ups and downs to either, and I know that for me, I would find small environments where everybody knew my name extremely suffocating, and I liked the idea of streets intersecting my campus (though I do wish we had an equivalent to Swarthmore's woods too).</p>
<p>"fuzzy"?
elaborate.</p>
<p>I use the word "fuzzy" as a synonym (and sometimes composite) of other vague terms, like "hand-holding," "crunchy granola," PC.</p>
<p>It seems to me like Swarthmore (and a lot of other LAC's) put a lot of work into establishing a community and establishing that all are accepted. At Chicago, these concepts are implied rather than stressed. You're not going to see a lot of Chicago kids wondering if they are acting in a way that is inclusive to all other Chicago kids-- they will assume that if they are not being inclusive, the excluded will let them know how they feel.</p>
<p>(That said, Chicago kids are not devoid of civic duty or community service, so even though they might not be as sensitive to each other, they tend to be sensitive to issues that surround them outside of the ivory tower).</p>
<p>"Fuzzy" may not be quite right for Swarthmore. I agree that community is a very strong characteristic, probably Swarthmore's defining characteristic. But, I get little sense that Swarthmore is a big "join hands and sing kumbaya" kind of place (at least after first collection). The school has a expectation of adult resposibility and the students seem to be an independent lot.</p>
<p>Overall though, your assessment of Chicago and Swarthmore seems pretty plausible.</p>
<p>Have you seen the impact of Chicago's rapid growth yet? I think it is going to be a challenge for Chicago to maintain the same level of quality while significantly increasing its undergrad enrollment.</p>
<p>I'm also trying to decide between Swarthmore and UChicago. I think I'm leaning more towards Swarthmore though, partly because Swarthmore is way more affordable for me, partly because I think that I prefer the closeness and the sense of community and the natural beauty of the campus and the seclusion of the campus from a major city. I have a gut feeling that I'd like UChicago more, but having like $60,000 in loans to pay off would not be fun. I think in the end I'll be happy with my choice, and if I really don't like Swarthmore, I could try to transfer the next year. And I do like the fact that professors dedicate themselves to undergrads--that's pretty sweet.</p>
<p>For the same money, I'd choose Swarthmore. For $60,000 less, it's a no brainer.</p>