<p>Just wanted to say a hearty Amen to everything Harriet just said, great post. And with that, I’ll depart and let folks focus again on Swarthmore in what is, of course, a Swarthmore forum.</p>
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<p>Right you are, thanks.</p>
<p>BTW, I think about half the kids at both schools would be interchangeable. It’s the other half that define the differences in the campus cultures.</p>
<p>BTW, Rebecca Chopp does not view Williams as a siginificant cross-admit competitor of Swarthmore’s. I tend to agree with her. Swarthmore is not one of Williams’ five most frequent cross admit schools and Willliams is not one of Swarthmore’s.</p>
<p>Ephman: I am not dismissive of interesteddad because he supports his positions with data; the Williams parents depend almost entirely on anecdote. For instance, wrt diversity, ID makes an important point in Swarthmore’s “third wave” of diversity vs. Williams’s recent progress.</p>
<p>
You haven’t disputed ID’s data, which indicates the several hundred students who “play sports”… aside from likely four-year varsity contributors on up, is every single other student not athletic? A non-participant in skiing and hiking and running? Somehow I think that Williams’s natural setting is attractive to more than just varsity-level athletes.</p>
<p>Having visited both, I heartily disagree that Williams’s current library is “nicer” than Amherst’s current library. On this point, I do have some strong opinions, because I specifically toured the main library at every single college I’ve ever visited (20+) over the past 2 years.</p>
<p>My general advice: Visit overnight on the same day of the week. (Williams, for instance, is hosting Previews on Monday to Tuesday.) Pay attention to undisputed data, but draw your own conclusions from that data.</p>
<p>In specifics: Williams is hosting Previews on Monday to Tuesday. My first tour guide at Swat was a varsity soccer player. My (only) tour guide at Williams was a very fit young woman, not an athlete, with great taste in sandals (albeit not great judgment in walking-backwards sandals). My visceral impressions of both contributed to my perceptions of the two.</p>
<p>Interesting on the cross-admit data. I know a surprising number of students this year choosing between the two, though most have a distinct preference one way or another.</p>
<p>@ Keilexandra: Unfortunately, the only time I could do an overnight at Swarthmore is this Thursday-Friday, and I am visiting Williams at Previews (as well as Sunday night). This is something I’ve considered though, so I will keep this in mind at both overnights.</p>
<p>I just wanted to share that I’ve come to realize something about both schools. I could see myself at both schools, but Swarthmore seems to fit my current personality better (as in conscientious, a bit nerdy but proud of it, quirky, non-drinker, not very superficial in terms of appearance). However, the Williams personality is more like the character I want to see myself become (more laid-back, physically active, outgoing, sociable, down-to-earth). IN ADDITION to the aforementioned Swarthmore characteristics. Before any of you cry out in dissent about my (in no way comprehensive) descriptions, that’s not to say that the other school doesn’t have the same qualities. It’s just that I see these respective characteristics stand out more in the student bodies. Swarthmore also seems to be much like my hometown, while Williams seems to be a different experience from what I’ve known for years. What to do?</p>
<p>I wish I could put both schools together and find the perfect middle ground, really. I appreciate all of your responses. If you have more, keep it coming! I hope this and the Williams vs. Swarthmore thread on the Williams board will help other students in the future as well.</p>
<p>^I considered Carleton the perfect mix of quirky and active (80% play sports, but a vast majority do only intramural, and the sense of humor is well-known). That’s not much use to you at this point, though. I chose Swarthmore over Carleton mainly for location, financial aid, and a marginally better academic fit; the latter still has a special place in my heart.</p>
<p>So I personally don’t see anything wrong with assigning personalities to the schools, cause every school has one. However, as you yourself realize, each school can share another school’s qualities. You could probably find a subset of students at Swarthmore with qualities you hope to have (the Williams-esque qualities) and likewise at Williams you’re going to find students with Swat-esque qualities. Idk, if I were you I’d just wait until the overnights/previews.</p>
<p>clariss:</p>
<p>It’s also not cut 'n dried. You could be quirky and seriously into community service and all the Swarthmore attributes and prefer Williams because you are are crazy big-time snowboarder. Or, you could be a big time soccer player with a backwards baseball cap and prefer Swarthmore because you are an indie rock bass player and need the indie rock scene of a city.</p>
<p>There are all kind of variations and permutations, none of which invalidate the distinctive brand identities of the various schools. Williams and Swarthmore are the lucky ones. They have distinctive brand identities. The schools that don’t would desperately like to.</p>
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</p>
<p>You bet: DU</p>
<p>And as my friend likes to joke, the Williams orchestra (if you can get in) takes up enough time that you won’t care about the parties.</p>
<p>Williams’ library was ugly but had 10 or so real Sumo beanbag chairs I have been dyeing to examine and try sitting on. (200-300 bucks each) Books were OK, then on the wall was this map of US and beyond with red pins on it showing where their students are from. Quite tacky, bad grade school-sh quality and design, only shows some area with big concentration while pretty sparse in others.</p>
<p>Swat’s library was about so so I could not dig deep because it was one on one tour done in the hurry, nice that you can eat and drink there.
No map I guess they don’t have to parade it since everyone knows how good (or bad?) their collected specimen varieties are.</p>
<p>OP
Are all $ numbers in by now?
I don’t know why but it is not Swarthmore thing to do to show other school’s bet as proof of your worth and ask to match it. If differences are like, tens of thousand, maybe, but money should not be the deciding factor as long as your folks are really truly OK with it.
I have heard from other parent Swat won’t charge you with tricky hidden fees and arrange free airport rides for breaks, really take care of its students. Every little bit helps, cheap train/bus fare everytime to visit big cities, having friends family visit you would be easier as well.</p>
<p>afterthought
I love Berkshire, the beauty of Williams and surrounding area is amazing, especially summer and fall, but it is a place to visit for me and my kid, not the place to live day in day out, and I don’t get ski. I used to live/work in Ski Butternut during summer and seeing naked slopes and wrecked ecosystem made me ever even want to try unless that is the only way of transportation, as of instead of walking. It helps local economy, just not my kind of thing.</p>
<p>Then Swarthmore has maybe the most beautiful campus around, to keep those lawns green and cropped and trees trimmed will take extreme care and say, chemicals, water, man power and machinery, (those golf cart thing I saw putting around) and minority manual laborers; I am sure they’ve treated fairly but yet but yet… The thought of them working hard behind scenes so the school would look pretty with potted flowers ( pesticides, greenhouse seeding, transportation carbon foot print ) nicely sanded and painted adirondack chair ( flying around toxin, dumped paint thiner or contaminating water to wash brushes or spray guns) arranged just so, while those nice and caring smart kids are to learn social justice and how to better the world does not make sense anymore.
I was awed, now see clearly. I could not be like other parent, my kid does not have stats anyways, Swarthmore no more.
Though I do hope you could go, it would be any smallish prestigious LACs bound kids and their parents’ dream.</p>
<p>Interesteddad: Of course it’s not cut-and-dried, those schools would both be very boring places if they were 
I was just using it as an example. I’m curious though if you don’t mind me asking, you said you and your wife were Williams grads somewhere on this forum? Why the criticism/dislike of Williams now? Did you not enjoy your time there?</p>
<p>bears and dogs: No, Williams mailed their FA packages yesterday. I hope to get one tomorrow.</p>
<p>I enjoyed Williams fine. Not that impressed with the direction the school has taken in recent years. The whole sports thing is fairly recent. Don’t get a good vibe about the campus culture from the school’s own internal reports: the drinking and the diversity issues are troublesome. I think they underfund some important areas such as student academic services (weak writing program) and community service (one part-time staff member) – I just disagree with some of the priorities. </p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong. I worked on my daughter hard to apply to Williams in case she wasn’t successful with her Swarthmore ED app. I think it’s a fine school. My wife and I both would choose Swarthmore today, if given the option.</p>
<p>Interesteddad,</p>
<p>I thought that you would enjoy this photo of Williams boys at Swarthmore with their baseball caps: [Bell-Sing</a>, One-Act Plays, Taiko, Haiti, and the Course of True Love :: The Daily Gazette](<a href=“daily.swarthmore.edu domain has changed”>daily.swarthmore.edu domain has changed)</p>
<p>By the way, in my last post, I posted the link to the picture from last weekend events at Swarthmore for Interesteddad, purely tongue in cheek. - - He had make a joke, earlier in this thread, about Williams students wearing baseball caps worn backwards, and it struck me as amusing that the first picture from last “Week in Pictures Roundup,” at Swawrthmore, showed a Williams a capella group with two boys wearing baseball caps backwards. </p>
<p>However, as I was later thinking about a controversial political event at Swarthmore this week, it did strike me that the saying that a picture is worth a thousand words is really quite true. Thus, if you take a look at picture #7 in that link, you can see one of Swarthmore’s male a capella groups. Its members are dressed in typical Swarthmore garb. (The barefeet is not typical. They are barefoot in keeping with the name of the group. The name, though, is quite typical of Swarthmore’s humor.) </p>
<p>But getting to the point of this post, and the subject of this thread, there is a palpable difference in the “looks” of the two groups. The Williams group, looks more athletic, preppy, the Swarthmore group looks quite Indie…LOL!</p>
<p>Yeah, Octet looks quite menacing and athletic don’t they? Pure intimidation right there.</p>
<p>Please Williams parents, don’t get into being defensive. This is a Swat thread and parents will promote their school as they choose.</p>
<p>HorseRadish – Your comments are a bit incendiary. I would tame them a bit, and yes, I do consider myself your friend.</p>
<p>Horseradish,</p>
<p>There is no need for being serious all of the time! Williams and Swarthmore are both wonderful schools. Any student fortunate to attend either, is truly fortunate, indeed.</p>
<p>Peace</p>
<p>I’m just confused as to why/how HR persists in believing that this is a student blog, or even an objective student-run forum (paraphrase of a prior, now deleted post).</p>
<p>nngmm: I find that harsh. I certainly don’t share HorseRadish’s feelings, but I am not embarrassed by him in the least. </p>
<p>I am sorry to have “invaded” your thread. I was just trying to keep the peace. However, I do feel very protective of young folks.</p>
<p>You guys have a wonderful college to promote. I am sure that is obvious to all of us. Congratulations.</p>