Swat vs. Haverford

<p>OOPS my mistake! Was thinking early decision, you said early write. Sorry.</p>

<p>hey, not a problem dramatica. i don’t take anything said on here too personally, and it was an honest mistake.</p>

<p>plus, i feel rather silly for starting this thread, and a fair amount of the criticism pointed at me has been accurate. again, thanks to all who are honestly trying to help.</p>

<p>I think I can add some to this discussion regarding first semester pass/fail, course load, and settling into Swarthmore. My son is a freshman and recruited athlete who struggled with his courses and the work load first semester. He thought he was in over his head academically. Jump ahead to the second semester and he has learned how to “study” and all that that implies at Swarthmore. I talked to him recently and he told me he thought his lowest grade was either a B or B+. I could tell by the pride in his voice that he was really happy. He also told me he studies several hours a day, sometimes spending up to ten hours on his school work. I truly believe the pass/fail first semester was especially good for a kid who had not learned how to really study. Swarthmore is not right for everyone. It is harder than anyone understands. But, if you make it, you will have maybe the best education in America.</p>

<p>Yeah, I’m really glad that first semester is pass/fail. Swarthmore is a difficult school, but I think there’s kind of a misconception. I mean, the classes at Swarthmore are probably more demanding than at most other places, but there are people here who say that high school was easier than it is here. It depends a lot on your schedule, how hard your professors are, etc. Students definitely can gauge how much work they’re going to get, and then plan their semester so that they have a good amount of work but not too much. But yeah, a lot of ppl here work all the time, in addition to doing extracurricular activities and all that.</p>

<p>My daughter applied to both Haverford and Swarthmore. She had 2380 SATs, National Merit finalist Maryland, 5’s on AP Calc B/C, US History, Comp, Lit, Spanish, high 700’s on all SAT2 tests, and a 4.8 weighted GPA taking all of the most challenging classes. She has a very quick wit, is lively as all get-out,and has fallen in love with Physics and Math. She got waitlisted at Swarthmore and was admitted to Haverford. She is going to Haverford. Interesting to glean from several posts here that Swarthmore students are intellectually superior to Haverford students. Please don’t tell me that every one who was admitted to Swarthmore 3 weeks ago is a) my daughter’s intellectual superior and b) has credentials that exceeded hers in any appreciable way.</p>

<p>Wow, your D’s stats are impressive! Where else did she apply?</p>

<p>She applied to a small list of schools: Swarthmore, Haverford, Oberlin because these were three schools that she found to be interesting to her that had a lot of the qualities she was looking for. She also applied to University of Maryland and Johns Hopkins because they both waived the application fee. She was a Maryland distinguished scholar and it was free for her to apply to any school in Maryland so she figured she might as well.</p>

<p>eyeball:</p>

<p>I don’t think there are any parents here, or many Swarthmore students and alumni, who believe that there is any meaningful difference in the capabiliities of students who get accepted to Swarthmore and students who get accepted to Haverford (or any other top liberal arts college). Certainly, the parents who have ushered kids through the process in recent years understand the daunting numbers, especially for girls from the mid-Atlantic and northeast.</p>

<p>Eyeball,</p>

<p>You titled your post “This thread makes me sad.” It is inexplicable to me why parents and student place so much weight on scores, grades and admission decisions. </p>

<p>Why should you feel sad as a result of postings in a public forum by people that you have never met? Instead you should be feeling joy that your daughter is attending a wonderful school. </p>

<p>And as far as “credentials” go, all that the test scores mean is that a student knows how to take a test on a given day. High grades and high scores often go hand in hand with intellectual ability, but not always. There are many intellectually curious students who do not well on tests, while there are many students who do extremely well on tests who do not have an ounce of intellectual curiosity. And of course, there are those who do well and who are intellectually curious. There are also many students who are incredibly intelligent who have not been afforded the same opportunities as high scoring test takers, and they are no less deserving of being given opportunities.</p>

<p>What is truly sad is the level of “competitiveness” among parents and students for the sake of showing admission to a trophy school without regard as to whether the school is a good fit or not.</p>

<p>What makes me really sad is the manner in which college applications have been turned on their heads as a result of college rankings by money making publications and the unwarranted importance that SAT/ACT/AP scores have garnered. - - There are many pieces of low scoring coal out there who with a little bit of help will turn into shiny diamonds and there many pieces of high scoring shiny cubic zirconium being trumped up as diamonds…</p>

<p>I hope you are not passing on your sadness to your daughter who should be jubilant to have been given the opportunity to attend Haverford.</p>

<p>I apologize for the rant, but I get crazy this time of year at seeing so many people comparing and despairing over the whole admission process…</p>

<p>What a very thoughtful and truthful response! I was thrilled when my daughter was accepted to Haverford and remain thrilled because it seems like such a good fit for her. Truthfully, it was her first choice. She really responded to the friendly/low key vibe and is a natural for going to a school that takes its honor code so seriously. I think my sadness derives from reading the snooty “Swarthmore is just so clearly superior and Haverford is comparatively second rate” comments. It makes me wonder if she’s going to be encountering it at Haverford since the two schools are so close to each other.
You know what though, your message is right-on and I thank you. There’s wisdom to your words and it will help me put this whole matter into perspective.</p>

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<p>There ya go! It usually works out the way it is supposed to.</p>

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<p>Only in the spirit of a Georgia/Georgia Tech, Florida/Florida State, Michigan/Michigan State football rivalry. I mean, seriously, what are Haverford and Swarthmore going to needle each other about? Football? Or academics?</p>

<p>To be honest, I don’t see much evidence of a whole lot of Haverford/Swarthmore interaction outside of sporting events.</p>

<p>InterestedDad – it’s not only girls from the northeast and Mid Atlantic who face the most daunting of odds… more specifically its’ non URM girls who don’t want to major in math or science… from anyplace, USA including California and other parts west of the Mississippi</p>

<p>With admission rates being as low as they are at the most selective schools, the odds are daunting for everyone, URM, science girls, athletes, legacies and even large donor kids.</p>

<p>Eyeball,</p>

<p>I do not think that your D needs to be concerned about feeling second rate. </p>

<p>Most of the taunts are just good natured fun. I do not believe that some of the “nasty” postings, you may have seen here, are indicative of the feelings of the majority of Swatties. </p>

<p>With nothing but gut instinct to back me up, I would even venture to say that the nasty comments are NOT representative of the majority and that many Swatties would be appalled by what is being said. Most Swarthmore students tend to be nice, caring, non-competitive, down to earth and self-deprecating at times. As with any school, or social/professional setting for that matter, there are always the arrogant types, but you will find those anywhere, even at the allegedly more “laid back” Haverford. </p>

<p>My guess is that some of the most outlandish statements that are made on these boards are made to incite and stir, just for fun. Therefore, they should not be taken too seriously. For instance, I am fond of Duhvinci and his outrageous comments, often sprinkled with several shades of truth. He makes me smile with his antics and I believe that deep down inside he is a well-meaning pussycat who happens to have a devilish streak. (I wish I could meet him to see if I am right!) </p>

<p>The three schools (Haverford, BM and Swat) have joint programs and activities open to students from all three. My D, a Swattie, has been involved in some of the programs and has made good friends with students from the other two schools. I have never heard her, or her Swattie friends, refer negatively about the other two schools or their students. </p>

<p>Swarthmore is a good fit for some, but not others and the same can be said about Haverford, Bryn Mawr, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Carleton, etc, etc. They all have different strengths and weakenesses and although some students will feel more at ease in one over another, in the end any student who is fortunate to attend any of these type of schools can count themselves extremely lucky, because admission has become nothing but a crap shoot…</p>

<p>Yes, I agree that admission is a crapshoot. Obviously each of these schools can fill its ranks with top students.</p>

<p>eyeball,
My S is a Swat graduate. He participated in an a cappella group which mixed students from Haverford, Swat and Bryn Mawr. I hosted the whole group at my house twice when they were performing in our area. I guarantee you that there was no way that you could look at this group and point to a student and accurately guess that he or she went to one school or the other. They were all nice, accomplished kids. Haverford is a great school! You should be proud of your daughter. :)</p>

<p>dramatica: before you can confirm what you think of me, i have two questions:</p>

<ol>
<li> are you hot?</li>
<li> may i call you “mrs. robinson?”</li>
</ol>

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</p>

<p>I have to say you won’t have to worry about that. This site is not representative of the real world or what she will experience. First at Haverford, I met MANY students who turned down offers from Swarthmore, Amherst, Brown, and Princeton. Not to mention tons who applied early decision and surely would have been admitted elsewhere, but are happy to be at their first choice. </p>

<p>Haverford students are overwhelmingly happy with their choice and realize that they are getting an amazing education. Here’s an example of a uniquely Haverford educational expereience: [Haverford</a> College News Room : PATHS TO PEACE](<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/news/stories/26811/38]Haverford”>http://www.haverford.edu/news/stories/26811/38) Students will tell you that most of their friends at other colleges (even LACs) aren’t frequently getting these types of experiences.</p>

<p>My Haverford roommates and I (11 people total over four years) went on to graduate from Harvard Law, Harvard Business (2), Harvard Kennedy, Yale Med, UPenn Med (2), Yale Ph.D (2), UC Berkeley Business, Columbia Law, MIT Ph.D, Harvard Education, and no grad degree (1). So, I think we 'Fords have landed on our feet.</p>

<p>^^ hey watch it duhvinci
she is the (only) one who been always supportive and saw thru you under the facade ever since when you were frosh and gotten thrown your underwear outa window
and of course she is the hottest mom you could imagine</p>

<p>Thanks Bear! </p>

<p>and you Duh, are certainly more clever than that!</p>