<p>My son is looking for a small college that has a swim team and orchestra for a non-music major. He is a National Merit semi-finalist. The schools he is looking at are Denison, Kenyon, Grinnell, Macalester, St. Olaf, Rice (no swim program but interested in the school). We would appreciate any comments on these schools and suggestions on more affordable schools in case the scholarships aren't big enough from his current list. University of Tulsa looked interesting and was the right size but no swim team.
Thanks!</p>
<p>Is he looking for a Div III swim team or what?</p>
<p>Does it have to be a small college or can it be a larger school with a well-developed Honors College with honors housing?</p>
<p>D II or D III. Right now he isn’t interested in an honors college within a large university. Additional info–he is looking at pre-law. If he had to give up the swim program (not many men’s programs), he would, but he would like to have one if possible.</p>
<p>Here are three to consider: Claremont-McKenna, Occidental, Rhodes.</p>
<p>*Additional info–he is looking at pre-law. *</p>
<p>OK… pre-law isn’t a major. A student who is pre-law can major in whatever they want. So, is he interested in majoring in Poly Sci? History? English? Business? Econ? A science?</p>
<p>How much can you afford to contribute each year towards his education? That answer will tell us if you need “full tuition” scholarships or more than full tuition. </p>
<p>Dumb question…would he have time for a swim program AND orchestra? Wouldn’t they both require a lot of practice time?</p>
<p>I wouldn’t rule out larger colleges with good honors colleges. Those schools often offer “the best of both worlds” …small classes, close relationships with profs and other students, yet lots of choices for extra-curriculars and other options.</p>
<p>Thanks. Good schools. He has looked at Claremont-McKenna. Any suggestions of schools in case large scholarships don’t come through? We need a reasonably priced plan b, just in case.</p>
<p>As far as a major–Poli Sci, English, or History.
Contribution–max $15,000/yr. It would be nice to take advantage of National Merit.
Options to participate in swimming and music but he’ll have to decide what he can/wants to do when he gets there. Those are his top two interests now. Probably depends on the programs at the schools.
He is consistent with his desire for a small school. He knows a lot more about what he wants than I did at that age, that’s for sure!</p>
<p>If you have honors programs in larger schools in mind, send them and I’ll have him look at them. It is hard to come up with small schools with good reputations that aren’t as expensive.</p>
<p>Contribution–max $15,000/yr. It would be nice to take advantage of National Merit.</p>
<p>That sounds like you need at LEAST scholarships with full tuition. That way, your $15k can pay for room, board, fees, and books (which can easily run $15k per year).</p>
<p>*It is hard to come up with small schools with good reputations that aren’t as expensive. *</p>
<p>True…That’s why I asked about larger schools with honors programs. Many kids who are seeking smaller schools don’t realize that they can have that “small school feel” at a larger school with a well developed honors program. And, some have great NMF scholarships.</p>
<p>Do you know if you would qualify for financial aid at a school like Claremont-McKenna (I don’t know if that school meets need or what). Do you know what your likely EFC would be? </p>
<p>FA Calc<br>
[FinAid</a> | Calculators | Expected Family Contribution (EFC) and Financial Aid](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Expected Family Contribution (EFC) Calculator - Finaid) </p>
<p>Does your child have a non-custodial parent?</p>
<p>If you won’t qualify for aid and/or you will have an unaffordable EFC, then finding schools that will give AT LEAST full tuition scholarships might be a necessity.</p>
<p>I will look into swim and non-major orchestra schools with NMF scholarships and let you know. :)</p>
<p>What level of swimming is he? You might want to look at Drury in Missouri. They give substantial money to swimmers.</p>
<p>What are your son’s stats other than being NMSF?</p>
<p>As for smaller schools…does he care if the school is heavily lop-sided - female heavy? If so, that could be an issue as well. Smaller schools can have a high female ratio.</p>
<p>Is your son attending a small high school now?</p>
<p>What is the difference between your EFC and ability to contribute. For my NMS daughter, we got better financial aid packages from 100% meets need based schools than those schools that gave merit aid. Of course, you would need to go to the schools estimated financial need calculator as it may differ from the federal EFC. My D also played sports and was in orchestra. She only wanted small schools as well. Message me if your want more information. You may not want to rule out generous schools such as Williams, Amherst, Davidson, and Swarthmore along with Colgate (all have great swimming programs).</p>
<p>I think we need to know what your son’s stats. </p>
<p>If his stats are very high, and you can afford your likely “institutional expected family contribution” (which could be higher than FAFSA EFC), then schools that meet 100% need might work.</p>
<p>But, if you have an unaffordable EFC and/or a non-custodial parent who won’t cooperate, then those “full-need” schools may not work. </p>
<p>Use the link in the above post and do both institutional and federal methodologies.</p>
<p>When I read the title of your thread, my first thought was Kenyon so it is great to see you have it listed. It is a great small college, exceptional in English and underrated in the hard sciences, has a great music program and their swimming facilities are amazing. I know the womens swim team are perennial champions. I loved the community and creative culture of the campus.</p>
<p>I also love St Olaf and I know they have one of the strongest music programs in the country. It is larger than Kenyon but has a unique campus community. The academics are great. I don’t know anything about their swimming program, sorry. Good luck in your search!</p>
<p>Just a note, D finds she does not have time for both a varsity sport and orchestra like she did in HS.</p>
<p>I haven’t done the FA calculations. Just figured we wouldn’t qualify after talking with some admissions people. I will do that.
Parents together–no noncustodial parent.
GA2012MOM: I LOVE Drury. Do you have a child who went there?
Other stats–graduating class of 450+, top 10%, 33 ACT
He does not care if school has more females.
GT alum: He is interested in all the schools you listed: Williams, Amherst, Davidson, and Swarthmore along with Colgate. I just figured we couldn’t afford those without merit aid. Would love to hear more about your experience.
Thank you all so much for being a sounding board! I don’t get much discussion from my son!</p>
<p>Offered only from the standpoint of the orchestra as general background, things to consider, questions to ask. A lot depends on how much importance he will place on a music participatory experience as a non major. Realize that contingent upon his experiences and training, some of these may be disappointing, and many are good. A few can classify as approaching exceptional.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/968687-open-orchestra-seats.html?highlight=orchestra[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/968687-open-orchestra-seats.html?highlight=orchestra</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/917678-looking-lac-good-symphony-orchestra.html?highlight=orchestra[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/917678-looking-lac-good-symphony-orchestra.html?highlight=orchestra</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/516178-what-like-non-music-major-orchestra.html?highlight=orchestra[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/516178-what-like-non-music-major-orchestra.html?highlight=orchestra</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/788690-liberal-arts-orchestra.html?highlight=orchestra[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/788690-liberal-arts-orchestra.html?highlight=orchestra</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/444853-schools-excellent-music-programs-orchestra-etc-where-you-dont-have-major.html?highlight=orchestra[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/444853-schools-excellent-music-programs-orchestra-etc-where-you-dont-have-major.html?highlight=orchestra</a></p>
<p>More info in the music major forum (even for non-majors) should you need or wish to dig deeper.</p>
<p>Check out Lawrence University in Appleton, WI. U Chicago likes its swimmers too.</p>
<p>[Wheaton</a> College Athletics](<a href=“http://athletics.wheatoncollege.edu/sports/mswimdive/index]Wheaton”>http://athletics.wheatoncollege.edu/sports/mswimdive/index) Swimming & Diving </p>
<p>[Performance</a> – Music | Wheaton College](<a href=“http://wheatoncollege.edu/music/performance/]Performance”>http://wheatoncollege.edu/music/performance/) Music/Performance, Majors/Minors </p>
<p>[Merit</a> Scholarships & Financial Aid –Admission | Wheaton College](<a href=“http://wheatoncollege.edu/admission/scholarships/]Merit”>http://wheatoncollege.edu/admission/scholarships/) Merit Aid </p>
<p>Check out Wheaton College (MA) Need more males, too! 
</p>
<p>Grinnell is a great choice. A highly ranked swimming program - and for a change of pace- they have a terrific water polo team too. A well-respected orchestra. Generous financial and merit aid for top students, which it sounds like your son may be. Definitely worth visiting if he hasn’t already. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/grinnell-college/438138-why-grinnell.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/grinnell-college/438138-why-grinnell.html</a></p>
<p>For a similar vibe, S also liked Carleton and Oberlin, but I don’t believe Carleton offers merit aid and I’m not sure about Oberlin.</p>