My D was planning to commit to the school of Education at UMass-Amherst with some merit aid (we are OOS) – but she just learned she got into Syracuse U’s School of Education with a fairly large scholarship that basically makes both of these schools around same cost. Any feedback on which is better for Education – and better in general? Pluses and minuses of each? She visited UMass already and liked it. We’re going to visit Syracuse next month so ultimately she’ll have a feel for both schools but I also wanted to get some feedback here.
I think it’s the visit that will decide it really… if all is equal as an Orange fan I’d say Syracuse… ranking wise Syracuse is higher but find out about placement at both schools
@TheVeep I’m interested in your question as my son is awaiting RD decisions from both UMass Amherst and Syracuse for engineering. UMass is ranked higher than Syracuse for engineering, and a quick search just showed me that it’s also ranked higher for education. My son interviewed on campus at Syracuse, though, and liked it a lot. I’m surprised that the scholarship your daughter received from Syracuse put it on a level playing field with UMass (especially considering that she received some merit there) because Syracuse tuition is so off the charts now. Personally, we’d need the largest award possible from Syracuse (which looks like it’s been about $28k?) along with grant money, and I just don’t think it’s going to happen. This is my second one off to college, and our experience has been so completely different. The colleges my son wants are not showing him a lot of love. At least not so far. Good luck with your decision!
@TheVeep, my D is an Elementary and inclusive Ed major at Syracuse. I’m happy to answer any questions I can,
But before I write paragraphs about my D’s experience, it might be helpful to see what your D is planning as a major.
We are from Mass, but D refused to look at UMass for some reason. She is very happy at SU and I have been impressed with the School of Ed and the work she is doing. Husband and I are both SU alum as well.
My S17 attends UMass, and S19 is considering UMass and Syracuse (still waiting to hear from Syracuse!). I can’t speak about the School of Education, but the two schools differ greatly in terms of the environment. As you probably saw when you visited, UMass is in the scenic Pioneer Valley, and Amherst is a traditional college town, and the students are pretty down-to-earth. All great, but S19 really liked the intense school spirit and and high-energy of Syracuse. UMass isn’t a rah-rah school–although the hockey team is hot right now–and that’s perfect for my older son! I think it will come down to what kind of atmosphere your daughter prefers.
@Leemarie66, we are in the same boat as you. This is my second D going to college and it’s a totally different experience. My older D was looking at top schools and the aid was paltry. For this one we had all but crossed Syracuse off the list because of the high cost (and the fact that she wants to be a teacher) until she got the $28K scholarship for Education. She got $10K from UMass. Syracuse would still be more, but not enough that it makes the choice to go to UMass a no-brainer. Both schools have special ed/inclusive ed degrees at the bachelor’s level – which is very attractive (many require master’s degrees). May I ask which “rankings” you looked at to determine UMass had better rankings?
@Amkngk, my daughter is also hoping to major in Elementary/Inclusive Ed! Syracuse was attractive to her because they have this major at the bachelor’s level (UMass just started a program this year for SPED K-12 too). They also told her they get the Ed students into the classroom pretty quickly so they can decide if they like it or not. That was attractive to her because many of these other schools don’t start the Ed coursework in earnest until junior year and by then if you decide you don’t like it it might be too late to switch majors and graduate on time. Can you tell me what she likes and doesn’t like about the Ed program at Syracuse? Did you feel that this degree is preparing her to find a job right out of college?
She’s also hearing that Syracuse social life is dominated by frats/sororities and she’s not sure yet if she wants to join one. Is it possible to thrive socially without being part of Greek life? At UMass it seemed there were a lot of “free spirit” types all doing their thing. Is it like this at Syracuse?
On your other point, we are from NJ and my daughter has basically written off all the NJ schools as well. Rutgers has NO undergrad teaching program and some of the other colleges that offer it are suitcase schools. I think there is some kind of aversion to in-state schools here in NJ.
@periwinkle4, thanks for your input. We too got the same “vibe” from both schools. D liked the “down-to-earth” atmosphere of UMass, but her sister goes to the University of Michigan so she has in her mind that college should also have the “rah-rah” aspect to it. I guess that’s why she’s having a tough time deciding – both schools have something that appeals to her, even though they are very different. We’re going to the admitted student event in April, so I guess after that she’ll make a decision. Still waiting to hear from a few more schools, but I think it’s going to come down to these two. The only negative with Syracuse is that if she decides she doesn’t want to major in education, she will forfeit the scholarship. With UMass, the money was not tied to one specific school, so I guess that’s something to think about too. It’s hard to be absolutely sure what you want when you are 18.
@TheVeep OK, here’s what I know, and if you have other specific questions, I’m happy to ask my daughter or put your D in touch with her.
My D is a sophomore. She is very, very happy at SU.
The great thing about the education program is that they are indeed in the classroom from the very beginning. First semester freshman year sees a few weeks of classes and then they are assigned to a school. They visit one or two days per week (I can’t remember) for about 1 1/2 hours. My D was a “reading buddy” in an inner-city school where she worked with 2 students on reading. I’m fairly certain she worked with the same students during the entire year, including second semester, but it’s possible she had a different school. I can check if it matters. Either way, she was in schools I think 2 days per week.
As a sophomore, first semester she went to a school 3 days per week. After a few weeks of classes, they got their placement and spent the mornings at a local school (a different school than 1st year). I know she was back on campus for her 12:45 class.
Second semester (now), she is in a school 4 days a week for the entire school day. Again, she had a few weeks of intensive classes at the beginning of the semester and started her placement the first week of February. She works in one 2nd grade classroom as a helper under the teacher. Today she is being observed by her SU supervising prof. – she had to plan a complete lesson about geography and teach it.
So, the good: They are very definitely being trained to be able to take over a classroom right out of the gate. I jokingly asked my daughter why she had 2 more years of school if she is basically student teaching now and she laughed and said she wondered the same thing. Much of the classroom work the first year focuses on the special ed piece, which my D found helpful because while she had done some teacher’s-helper type things in high school, she didn’t have any exposure to the special ed piece. There are also classes in teaching science, social studies, math, reading, art and music in the classroom.
She does have a car on campus, which allows her to experience both city and suburban schools. A car is not required and the University will provide transportation for students, but I’m not sure how far out that goes or if those students are always kept close by. She very much likes the contrast in the different schools. She did carpool with some other students first sophomore semester, but now she is the only one at her school
The “bad” – not really bad, but just …
My D is sometimes frustrated that she is not having a more “normal” class experience. There is not a lot of room for electives, and even though she went into SU with 12 AP credits, the credit load for her degree is heavy and doesn’t allow for many “fun” classes. She got most of her Gen Ed requirements done the first year and is saving the rest for her semester studying abroad.
Also, she envies her friends who go to class, have a long break, maybe meet a friend for lunch, go to another class, etc. She is at school T-F from 7:30am-3pm then drives home. It feels more like she’s going to work.
The Ed degree at SU is very much a pre-professional degree, so it just feels a lot different than some kids’ experiences.
The social: my D went thinking she was not interested in Greek life, but her roommate rushed and convinced D to go along. They both got into the same sorority, and honestly, it has been the best thing. I say this as someone who was very anti-greek when I attended SU a million years ago (my husband was in a frat though). For my D, who can be somewhat shy and have social anxiety, the sorority has really enabled her to blossom and have a very wide ranges of friends instead of the close 1 or 2 that she surrounded herself with in high school. She still has a few close friends, too, but she has a wide range of people to do things with.
My D is also involved in another organization on campus. There is definitely a lot to do if you don’t want to join the greek system. The Greeks are the most “visible” because they wear letters, and it does seem like almost 1/2 of the girls join sororities, so it is a factor, but I think it comes into play the most 2nd semester freshman year when sorority rush happens. Then it seems like everyone is rushing and it may feel lonely. But after rush is over, the greeks do their thing and the non-greeks do theirs, and nobody much thinks about it anymore, I don’t think.
She loves Syracuse – in fact, one of the reasons she chose SU was their semester of student teaching in NYC, but now she is not planning to do that because she loves being on campus so much. She will go abroad to London next fall, and doesn’t want to be away for 2 semesters.
Hope this helps – let me know if you have other questions!
@TheVeep My quick search was the US News and World Report and the World University Rankings, both of which need to be balanced with other inputs like best value, etc.
That’s an excellent point–it is hard to be tied to a career path at 18. Wonderful that she has two great choices–best of luck to you all!
@Amkngk Thanks so much for this detailed information. It’s more than I could have hoped for! I am so glad your daughter likes Syracuse and is doing well in the program. Some of this will be very appealing to my daughter and some of it perhaps not. When we visited Syracuse last year, we heard that most students don’t have classes on Fridays. Is your daughter teaching in a school on Fridays when most of her friends are off? My daughter is in a similar boat – she’ll go in with at least 12 credits and maybe more, depending on what classes transfer and how she does on her AP tests in May. The fact that she won’t get to take many “fun” classes is concerning, as I think we are viewing college as a chance to at least some of that. But on the other hand, she would love to get out of college in 4 years with a bachelor’s degree in SpEd teaching and not have to go through a 5-year program or get a master’s – like many of the other schools require.
Also good to hear about the Greek life. I told my daughter to keep her options open. She had initially written off Syracuse because of the cost and because there are some people going from her HS that she’s not crazy about, but I keep telling her it is a big school and she will probably not even interact with these people if she doesn’t want to.
We are going to visit April 15, so I guess she’ll get a better feel for the place then. Last time we went was on a Saturday morning and it was hard to tell much about student life or campus vibe because there was nobody around. They all must have been sleeping in!
You are brave to send your daughter with a car. How does she handle the driving with all of the snow?
@TheVeep, looks like we’ll be there on Apr 15th, too, with my younger daughter who is starting at SU in the Fall. Are you planning to go up for Own the Dome on the 14th? (Highly recommended! Registration will open up late March for that).
My D does teach in the school on Fridays, but she has never mentioned that her friends don’t have classes. It might be something that students choose to schedule no classes on Friday, but it’s not like at some other universities where they literally don’t have classes on Fridays.
Evidently the problem with not being able to take “fun” classes is more about the scheduling of in-school placements. As you can see, when the in-school hours are 7:30-3pm 4 days a week, there is just no way to take other classes unless you want to do evening classes, which exist but my D didn’t want to do.
The car. My D doesn’t like to drive much, so I think it has been good for her to get out of her comfort zone. On the other hand, my heart is in my mouth every time it’s snows. So far so good. We bought new snow tires for her and she has AAA. Fingers crossed. The worst storm was 2 weeks ago and her elementary school had a snow day so she didn’t have to drive that day.
About the people from the same HS: That happened to me when I attended (and there were 3,000 fewer students then). There were 3 others from my HS and two of them I couldn’t stand. I literally never saw them in my entire 4 years. Funny story, though, the one that I disliked the most now has a D going there, majoring in Ed, and I’m both horrified and amused that my D may become friends with her.
I don’t know my D’s schedule on 4/15, but if you and your D would like to sit down with her for a chat, I’m happy to investigate if it is possible. Just let me know.
@Amkngk Thanks for the info. We are going to a school of Ed luncheon for admitted students on the 15, and with the RSVP for that they’re supposed to automatically sign us up for Own the Dome. Is that worth doing? Definitely sounds unique (and fun for a prospective college student!) So right now my D is planning on doing it. I’ll double-check with her, but I think she’d love to speak with someone in the program she’s interested in – if your daughter has time. My friend’s son also goes there and we’re meeting up with him – but he is in the Newhouse School and that is probably a very different experience.
One more question: Will your daughter have in-school placements every single semester she’ll be at Syracuse? I know she is planning to study abroad, so obviously that will be different. But do all the other semesters include in-school work? Or are there any terms when she will just take classes on campus?
@TheVeep Own the Dome is definitely worth doing. Great that they will automatically sign you up — it fills up fast.
My D said that there are 2 semesters with no placement, and it depends on when you plan to do your student teaching and if you go abroad. Typically it’s either first semester sophomore year, or second semester senior year. And then if you go abroad, that semester, or one semester junior year if you stay on campus. My D is going abroad Fall of Junior year, student teaching Fall of Senior year, and she’ll have the final semester of senior year to take any last required courses or electives. It is all planned out with the advisor during freshman year, so the roadmap is pretty clear and all requirements are met.
One of the major differences I find between UMass Amherst and Syracuse is how much sports/Greek life are part of the life on campus. The social life at Syracuse is much more influenced by frats/sororities/sports than UMass Amherst is, in my observation. For example, at Syracuse, 30% of students are in a frat or sorority - at UMass, it’s less than 10%. So if your daughter loves sports and likes or doesn’t mind the Greek scene, Syracuse could be a fit. But if not, she may prefer UMass. But she should visit Syracuse and see how she feels about the place.
@Amkngk – If you are going to be at Syracuse on the 15th and it would be possible for my daughter to speak with your daughter for a few minutes, my daughter would love that.We didn’t realize that this program required teaching at a school for 8 hours, 4 days a week most semesters. That is definitely a game changer. Most other programs she’s looking at have a semester or even a year of student teaching – but this sounds like a much bigger time commitment over the course of 4 years. If you/she is amenable to meeting, let me know and I can send you my contact info.
@RoaringMice, thanks so much for your feedback! I too am seeing that this is a big difference. My older D goes to a Big 10 school where sports/Greek life is huge and so I think my younger D has that in her mind as an “ideal” college experience – though I don’t know if it’s necessarily her scene. We’re going to visit in a couple of weeks and it looks like the “Own the Dome” program gives prospective students a good taste of the sports aspect of the school – so it should be a good barometer. My other concern with Syracuse is with the weather. My daughter is interested in possibly playing club soccer – but with snow on the ground seemingly all the time, I’m wondering how that will be possible.
@TheVeep I think it’s 8 hours a day 4 days a week one semester, then student teaching one senior semester (that’s standard at most schools), but I will double check. I’ll also ask her about her availability on the 15th. I’m guessing afternoon would be best, based on the Spring Preview schedule? Is your D going to Own the Dome?
My D got into the School of Education at UMass-Amherst with some merit aid (we are OOS) and was planning to commit – but she just learned she got into Syracuse U’s School of Education with a fairly large scholarship that basically makes both of these schools the same cost. Any feedback on which is better for Education – and better in general? Pluses and minuses of each? She visited UMass already and liked it. We’re going to visit Syracuse next month so ultimately she’ll have a feel for both schools but I also wanted to get some feedback here.