<p>I have been a lurker for some time. My Daughter will be a sophmore at Tisch Drama (She loves it ) I wish I had known about this site when we were going throught the process. I heard a rumor that Syracuse cut some of their MT Sophmores out of the BFA down into a BA. If it is true the upcoming seniors need to know this before applying to Mt at Syracuse. (Someone I know was said to be cut). I am interested because I am a director of Childrens Theatre and a lot of my kids and their parents come to me for advice on Mt and Theatre programs.</p>
<p>This topic has been discussed quite a bit on the MT Forum. So, to start, you may wish to read the following two discussions:</p>
<p>Thread about cuts and evaluations/juries that discusses the differences including an explanation by DoctorJohn and discusses Syracuse starting on page two:</p>
<p>Syracuse thread that discusses the evaluation system in place,..starting on page 7:</p>
<p>My D applied to and was admitted to the BFA in MT at Syracuse in 2005, but attends Tisch. At the time, I had never heard of any form of cut or evaluation at Syracuse. It likely existed but we didn't know of it, and/or it is a more established policy now. </p>
<p>However, it is very important to not only read the threads I linked to but to understand the differences. I personally don't think of Syracuse in the category of programs that cut. But some of this is terminology but some is a clear distinction. I think of a cut program more as a school that has PLANNED cuts by numbers....that starts out with a certain number of freshmen and plans to cut down to a certain number by soph, junior, or senior year no matter the talent or achievements of those in the class and/or a program that cuts only based on talent (if they think the student won't make it in the field). I rarely give my opinon on this topic on this forum but will mention that I am personally NOT into such programs and my own kid would never apply to such programs. However, I respect those who once INFORMED, still opt to apply and attend such programs which are genuinely excellent BFA programs. Some schools that have a cut policy of this nature are UArizona, DePaul, and CCM. I certainly encourage students to apply, have clients who apply, and my D has friends who have attended. She would not opt to apply and I personally am not into such policies. It is important that those who apply, are cognizant of these policies. These are excellent programs of course that are very well regarded. I gave some examples but it is not an exhaustive list by any means. </p>
<p>There are programs that have evaluations or juries. They reserve the right to not "advance" a student to the next level in the program who is not meeting the standards. Many of these programs allow for a probationary period for the student to improve and try again to pass the evaluation to move into the upper level courses in the program. If they do not make it that time, they are not cut from the university but are redirected to a BA path. My personal viewpoint is I would not have a problem with this IF the criteria was not about talent but more for students who are not doing the work, are not coming to class, have poor grades, poor attitude, etc. I think this would be like ANY college major where if you are not achieving at a certain level of GPA in the major, you cannot advance in the major. I don't think my D would truly have a problem with such a system because she knows her own work ethic and tends to achieve in classes and wouldn't be at risk under such a system. Also, for a student not making the grade, there is a probationary period to bring up the level of achievement. There are BFA programs like this where most do NOT think of it as a cut program at all.....such as Emerson, BOCO, Syracuse (apparently), Otterbein, Ithaca, etc. My D did in fact apply to Emerson, BOCO, Syracuse and Ithaca and didn't want a cut program and so these schools still were fine to her (though I am not sure at the time that we knew of the evaluation/juries at Syracuse or Ithaca). I think that being redirected if you are not doing the work is not the same as a true cut program, and is likely not that different than in other majors in order to advance to the upper level courses. </p>
<p>Then there are programs that do not make you pass any juries to advance. This is true, for example, at NYU/Tisch and UMichigan. While each year there are demos and evaluations at Tisch, nobody is cut and nobody has to be concerned about advancing. I suppose if you are failing, like in any college, that would affect you. I personally prefer this type of program as I think it is more nurturing. However, I am not opposed to evaluations for those who are not doing the work, not showing up, aren't prepared for class, do poor work, have poor attitudes, etc. I have taught at five colleges and I would not want a student to advance who was doing poorly. It is the nature of education. We don't do such kids any favor by advancing them. I think a person needs to EARN that degree and it is not automatic by simply enrolling. I am opposed, however, to programs that admit you and IF you ARE doing the work, still may cut you either based on talent or wanting to have a smaller class by graduation. I think if a college has assessed your talent by the admissions audition and you ARE doing the work, their job is to nurture you through to graduation. If you don't make it in the field, then you don't. They can advise you about redirecting if they feel you don't have the talent but a student who does the work should have the option of seeing the program through once admitted. That is my personal opinion. I realize I have given some facts but also some opinions. Do what is comfortable for YOU. But in any case, those are some facts and also read the other threads which are informative.</p>
<p>Thank you for the information but I was told by a parent who has a child in the MT department that they had let in too many kids and that was why some of the kids did not pass their juries. It was a numbers game.</p>
<p>My D is a sophomore at Syracuse. She has been told, both by faculty and older students, that the "cuts" are strictly to eliminate those students who are doing poorly -- as SoovieVt said. The second year evaluations, as they are called, were very clearly explained to us when we went to the school for auditions. D has not been through the evals yet, but her observation so far is that students who are performing up to expectations will not be cut simply to reduce the numbers in the program.</p>
<p>Actressmom, if you still have doubts, though onstage is a mom of a current student and also the threads I linked you to included comments from current students and also some parents who did recent visits to Syracuse's program and asked these questions, you should call/write the school directly for clarification. It is too hard to go by what that one parent (whom you know) said.</p>
<p>By the way, onstage, the explanation you were given at auditions might be a newer development as your D is a sophomore now, but the previous year when we went to campus auditions, and heard the presentation by Jim Clarke, none of this came up. So, I don't know if this was always in existance or a newer policy or just what. KatMT went to Syracuse a long time ago (she is now a faculty member at another college) and said it was like this back then. The first I heard of evaluations at Syracuse was on CC a year or so after my D got in (but did not opt to attend...liked it though!).</p>
<p>When we visited Syracuse and my daughter auditioned last year, we discussed with the department reps the question of the purpose of the evals. We were told that they were for purposes of checking on student progress. If a student was deemed not to be making satisfactory progress, the student was given the opportunity to work on weaknesses and would again be evaluated. If still not making adequate progress, we were told that a student who was making good faith efforts but simply did not have the ability to progress as desired would be urged to move into the BS program in acting. Those who were just screwing around and not taking their responsibilities in the department seriously would be asked to leave the department, which we were told rarely happens.</p>
<p>Yes, it's possible that it's a fairly new policy -- it's probably best to check directly with the school for details. But here's what my D has been told by faculty: sophomores are required to audition with a song and a monologue at the end of the year. If they pass the singing audition but fail the acting part, they will be asked to re-take a particular acting class, but will be allowed to continue in the MT BFA program at that time. If they pass the acting but fail the singing they have two options: re-take a musical theater class (while remaining in the program), or transfer out of the MT area into the Acting BFA. If they fail both parts of the audition, they may be asked to leave the BFA program and transfer into the BS Theater program -- or they may be allowed to retake some classes if there is potential for improvement.</p>
<p>So, is the decision whether to advance the student to the junior year level fo the BFA program based on their singing and acting alone or on their grades, effort, work ethic, preparation, progress, and various other educational parameters? Is it all basically on this evaluative audition? Could someone who was achieving all As in class, never absent, is always prepared, has handed in all work on time also be not permitted to continue in the BFA? Now I am a bit confused. It is good, however, that they allow them opportunities to retake a class and improve (like some other schools such as BOCO have a probation phase). I can't tell by this description if a student is not chosen to advance after a period of time and warnings and feedback throughout the two years, or simply based on the "audition" evaluation itself? My personal viewpoint is that when someone is not doing the work, that is one thing. If they are doing the work, improving, putting in full effort, getting good grades, etc., but the school doesn't think they have the talent to move on, I'd have trouble with that a bit. It sounds stressful. This layer of worrying if one will get to stay even if doing all the work, preparation, effort, etc. but considered not "good enough" would seem to cast a certain mood over everyone. However, I never thought of Syracuse as having cuts at all. I like how in my D's program, that it is intense and there are high expectations and difficult grading and evaluations but if you are doing the work, you're there 'til you graduate. There is no "will I get to advance" involved. I imagine if one has failing grades below a certain point, that would be an issue as it is in any program or major. Again, I don't see a big problem with making sure all students are putting in full effort in order to progress to the upper levels of the program. That is quite reasonable to have such high expectations. I'm not as into not letting someone go on based on lack of talent since they were admitted based on audition. Then again, I would imagine anyone putting in full effort into an intense BFA program would eventually be improving their skill set which is what they are there for, and so that should go hand in hand with full effort. I would like to think that the decision to advance in the program is based on their work in class for two years and not just the audition evaluation. That is my personal preference anyway. But it is good to get a handle on how it works at all the schools. I was not aware of this policy at Syracuse when my D was admitted in 2005 and we did like the program and I surely recommend it to others.</p>
<p>My impression is that students who are making a good effort will be given every opportunity to improve. It does seem unlikely that a student who is getting all As in class, etc. would suddenly fail both aspects of the audition. Admittedly, my D has not been through the process yet -- maybe I'll have more to say about it next year at this time! But so far she has found the faculty very supportive and helpful -- it's pretty hard for us to believe that they would cut students without a very good reason.</p>
<p>Onstage....my impression of Syracuse is that it is supportive and is not a cut program and so I would imagine and hope that a student who is "not making the grade" is given an opportunity to improve and if he/she has not, is redirected to the appropriate degree program within the university. I'd like to think that things like work ethic and effort are part of what is evaluated and that if a student has those things, it is likely that he/she would also be improving their skills. </p>
<p>I am not into programs that cut based on talent at a later juncture because I feel the original audition screened for talent, though the original audition may not reveal work ethic and so forth. But I know some programs (I'm not speaking of Syracuse now) where they concern themselves with the talent level of what they present at the showcase for agents and the school's reputation and so cut along the way in order to present the best talent. I feel another approach would be to have an audition to get into the Senior Showcase and solve that matter that way. I feel that it is supposed to be an education and so if someone is truly putting in effort, getting good grades, has no attendance issues, has a positive attitude and is trying hard and achieving in other respects, they deserve to see their education through, even if they may not "make it" with their talents. That is just my personal preference. But as an educator, I definitely think that policies should be in place as to whether students are promoted or pass or get a degree. I am into high expectations and not passing students just because they paid money.</p>
<p>The Sophomore Evaluations at SU have been around at least since the late 1980s. I went through the process in the early 1990s as a sophomore. From conversations I have had with current SU students it does not sound as if the evaluation process has changed much over the years.</p>
<p>Students evaluate at the end of their sophomore year. Acting students do a scene and MT students do a scene and a song (although there may now also be a dance component.... I do not know). You are given feedback on your evaluation material, and your progress in the program. The actual evaluation scene is not the sole criteria for evaluation… the students entire record is taken into account. </p>
<p>Students are either:</p>
<p>(1) passed on to take upper level performance classes in the department. Thus, being able to obtain a BFA in Acting or Musical Theatre.</p>
<p>(2) given the opportunity to retake sophomore scene study or sophomore performance, if it does not seem that they are yet ready to take upper level performance classes, but the faculty believes that another semester in the sophomore level classes will help them. These students then re-evaluate the next semester.... if they pass their evaluation at that time they may now take upper level performance classes, and are thus able to graduate with a BFA.</p>
<p>(3) are not given the opportunity to retake the courses in the following semester. Meaning that they will not be able to take upper level performance classes. In this case, students who remain in the program would have to switch to the BS (Syracuse does not offer a BA in Theatre) Acting track. This track does not require upper level classes in performance. Some students choose the BS track because it allows time for a minor, which is difficult in the BFA track. When I was a student at SU, those who were not allowed to re-take the sophomore courses to evaluate again were able to appeal this decision.</p>
<p>When I was there most students eventually passed their evaluation. Some did not and were not allowed to take upper level performance classes. Most of them completed the major on the BS track -- still auditioned for, and were cast in shows (often studio productions)... of the people I can remember one is a writer in LA, one is an agent, and the other no longer works in theatre. </p>
<p>As far as the criteria -- I found my old evaluation forms (I keep EVERYTHING!) The categories for evaluation had to do with acting choices, use of body, use of voice. There was also a section or faculty comments. My guess is that the form has probably evolved since 1992. </p>
<p>At the time the process was stressful, but I did feel like the faculty had the best interest of the students in mind. I do not remember thinking that the evaluation was about talent... but about progress. Some very talented students (for whatever reasons) are not able to make the progress that they need to make in the first two years. This does not mean that they will never be able to progress, but that they are not ready to go onto the upper level classes yet. Also -- if a student is not ready to be a contributing member of the more advanced class yet, the faculty probably wants to make sure that student is not going to hinder the progress of the rest of the group.</p>
<p>These are just the observations of a former 20-year old who went through the process years ago. Current SU students and faculty would obviously have more of a handle on the process as it is today. </p>
<p>PS. SoozieVT - talked about students auditioning to be accepted in the senior showcase above.... this is something that happens at Syracuse. Not all BFA graduates will be able to participate in the senior showcase.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The actual evaluation scene is not the sole criteria for evaluation… the students entire record is taken into account.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is what I wanted to know and I agree with evaluating everything beyond the song and scene themselves. Having been a college teacher myself, I'd evaluate a student's progress over the entire time and not any one given "project" or "performance." </p>
<p>
[quote]
if a student is not ready to be a contributing member of the more advanced class yet, the faculty probably wants to make sure that student is not going to hinder the progress of the rest of the group.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree with this concept particularly in participatory and performance oriented classes which can also involve collaboration, etc.</p>
<p>I also agree, as an educator, of giving students another chance to improve after the assessment and it appears Syracuse is doing that and allows those with potential to repeat the class. </p>
<p>For those who still don't "make the grade," they are given a chance to still major in theater, but in a BS degree program, not a BFA track. This also seems fair as the student has options to still study theater. This is very different than a cut system at schools where you are truly "out" if cut.</p>
<p>It appears that the OP has not returned to further comment on the additional information provided here but I wanted to add something to this thread. The son of a friend has Syracuse on his list and was disconcerted by the information originally posted here so he contact Jim Clark directly. Jim is the Associate Director of the Department of Drama at SU, and his reply was the following, which was supplied via email to my friend's son:</p>
<p>"Thanks for the inquiry. We have never cut students who are in our program because of over-enrollment. When this has happened in the past(which isn't often), we have received additional support from our Dean to cover the required courses for the additional students. We have raised the standards for our second year evaluation process which is the gateway to the 3rd and 4th year classes. Students who do not pass this evaluation are advised to repeat classes and re-evaluate or switch to the Bachelor of Science degree in Drama. Students can still complete their degree requirements within a four-year period. I hope this helps."</p>
<p>Jim Clark
Associate Director
Department of Drama</p>
<p>I think this illustrates the importance of verifying this type of information with the individual schools so that an applicant is well-informed with accurate information.</p>
<p>Thanks alwaysamom -- it is important to go directly to the source!!</p>
<p>Pretty much what Jim said is what is stated here... students who don't make the grade switch to the BS track which does not require upper level acting classes. However, since schools are often changing requirements and standards it is SO important to contact the schools directly.</p>
<p>Best of luck!</p>