<p>northeastmom2, here in Pa, we’re all taxed the same %
on our state income tax, yet it’s become increasingly
difficult for lower income kids to access the state system.
Prices have risen but aid has not. For many affluent families
the state system especially the flagship main campus,
is a good financial deal and attracts many wealthy
students. Lower income students with better stats,
do not have that option, even though they’re paying
their fair share of taxes. So yes, at least in Pa,
we do have a system that subsidizes college for
wealthier taxpayers, in fact, it has created a multi tier
system based not on merit but on income. This is
ok, of course, for the privates, but it uses public money
to support a higher education system that discriminates
against lower incomes - a sort of AA for the wealthy.
It also encourages the colleges to continue to increase
prices - PSU has almost doubled in the last ten years.
There is no incentive to reduce costs. Since many of
privates compete with the state flagship it also allows
them to continually raise prices thus repeating the process.
If the publics were to cut costs and the state increase
aid (it has not risen hardly any in 10 years) there would
be increased competition and access. That would also
reduce prices across the board for all colleges in Pa.
Although wealthy families are currently the 'winners"
in the long run the system hurts everyone and more
students are excluded every year. It imitates what has
happened across America for the last decade or two -
the concentration of wealth and access at the
expense of deserving students and families.</p>
<p>I believe Shrinkrap is referring to total tax burden (federal + state + property + SSI + sales tax).</p>
<p>ouch-
I should have known better but I just added up what we paid in medicare/property/federal etc.
no wonder we don’t have any money
I also do a lot of work for various fundraisers and contributions are way down, even from regular donors. People are getting laid off and they just can’t afford it.</p>
<p>“I believe Shrinkrap is referring to total tax burden (federal + state + property + SSI + sales tax).”</p>
<p>BTW, I’m a her… did somebody say discount? … I thought we were just talking about being able to apply. I know where on a different subject but perhaps I should feel less conflicted about letting my D choose a private where I’ll have to pay full price. On other threads that’s considered indulgent.</p>
<p>That social security doubles if you work for yourself… maybe I do need an accountant because it does seem to come to almost 50 percent… I did say almost.</p>
<p>From my husband’s $40k salary (he’s a private high school teacher so this includes tutoring and summer school), we pay 25% for health insurance, and another 10% on medical deductibles and co-pays, so 35% in healthcare alone for a family of 4 (no one is sick and/or disabled - we’re talking routine, preventive care). Pretty amazing, huh? And, I haven’t even gotten to taxes - altho I must say, the feds are kind-hearted enough to leave us alone.</p>
<p>Oops… I guess I didn’t say almost in my original post. And how about the “alternative minimum tax” or whatever that’s called. And no “stimulus” refund… no tuition tax credits…</p>
<p>Forgive me if it’s hard to feel sorry for you Shrinkrap - you’re in the top 5% of income earners in the country.</p>
<p>Forgiven…(Smile).</p>
<p>My H and I argue about that top 5% thing. Is that true in the San Francisco Bay Area? Doesn’t feel like it.</p>
<p>BTW, I think I started by saying I don’t feel (too) sorry for myself. Just sharing my perspective. So if your kids decide to stay in school for 12 years, go 200k in debt for medical school, then find themselves paying a lot of taxes and still feeling resented, tell them don’t talk about it here…I’ll also add, while I admit to being politically ignorant, I’m as big a “democrat " as anyone, give freely of my money and time to causes I believe in, and don’t “cheat” on my taxes. But I also sometimes wonder why I just don’t work less so I can pay less taxes, and more to a state where I’m told the " burden” on high earners is less.</p>
<p>I don’t believe it’s easy for any family in this country right now, and the easiness scale shrinks the further down the income ladder you are. Anyone who doesn’t vote democrat right now is mentally ill imo.</p>
<p>It’s always fun to read about the adults who admit that they are “politically ignorant” democrats, who want the government, by way of your tax dollar, to pay for everything, but want to work less and live in a state where they can actually KEEP more of their hard earned money! </p>
<p>Personally, it is a bit silly to call people who don’t want Hillary or Obama to be President, mentally ill. If you think that voting for HIGHER taxes will cure your problem good luck!</p>
<p>Well, when the avg lower to middle class earner is currently paying 35% of their current income in health insurance, and NO one in their family is even ill, Houston/Ms Avg Republican, we have a problem. And, high taxes aint it.</p>
<p>And, I’m not working any less - in fact working MORE because I had to lay off 2 people because I am currently operating my wholesale plant nursery at a loss. Until you’ve weeded potted plants in the hot South Florida sun, you don’t know what hard work is. </p>
<p>Please, let me and all the other businesses hit by the recession go back to making money and paying taxes. Vote democrat!</p>
<p>"It’s always fun to read about the adults who admit that they are “politically ignorant” democrats, who want the government, by way of your tax dollar, to pay for everything, but want to work less and live in a state where they can actually KEEP more of their hard earned money! "</p>
<p>If you mean me, I’m glad your having fun. And I was referring to MY tax dollar, and how ambivalent I am about where it goes. I added the ignorant part because I thought I’d beat some people to it, who I knew would be quick to jump in and (try to) make me feel stupid. If the “fun” was meant as sarcasm, perhaps you can just say what you think with regard to higher-income students access to the UC’s. That’s the comment I was responding to.</p>
<p>My H and I are real new to this “high earnings” thing, my H 1st generation college and me second. Our parents literally catapulted our families out of poverty, and we catapulted ours into a situation we are struggling to understand. So think you all for what you contribute to my “edification”, but forgive ME if I take extreme views with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>To the OP, sorry if we’ve drifted but the original post was so well written, I can’t believe you didn’t anticipate it.</p>
<p>Shrinkrap, if it’s any consolation, I think she was talking to me - Florida has no state income tax, just high sales tax and astronomic property taxes instead -which we still pay btw, despite the fact that our land value has dropped $500k in 3 years.</p>
<p>Well maybe, but I specifically plead ignorant and shared my thoughts about working less and moving. But thinks for trying to console me!</p>
<p>
Not all that true. If your have well off parents, not necessary rich to have boat, vacation house, fancy vacations, etc. But they just climbed the ladder recently make enough to disqualify your ‘need-based’ FA, but not enough for their own retirement. … The only way you can graduate debet free is through your parent’s out of pocket money.</p>
<p>The way I see it the most ‘hurt’ are those families, mostly those double income professional parents, who just recently climbed the ladder. … With both parents busy at work, they are not able to lend hands (or get involved) in their kids’ education when they grown up; so basically their kids left out by their own to make out their way through HS (this parent hasn’t set her foot into kid’s HS door in four years, except freshmen orietation). When their kids made the way to get accepted to top ‘need-based’ schools, the parents have to pay full freight out of the pocket money (this parent just feel ‘guilty’ for leaving my kid alone. And felt he did his job to get into the best college he could, and we will keep our promise to pay the cost, wherever he chose to go. As long as he feels happy). … yes, we can afford, but it would be from our years saving and retirement fund. we are late starters, we don’t go fancy vacation or buy vacation houses, boats, etc. </p>
<p>Please don’t assume all those kids with parent could ‘afford’ the full pay are spoiled little ‘brats’, or they are grown up in a very ‘rich’ environment, or they got a leg up because they went to prep schools or SAT prep classes … My kid spend the early year in a one room apartment. Rarely got treated with a McDonald kid meal. We had never bought him any iPod, video games, etc. all those fancy gidgets. Refuse to go prep school but chose public HS. Refuse to take any SAT prep courses. We did not hire any college consultant in the process despite both of us (H&M) clueless entering this process. … yet, he still made it without much help from us.</p>
<p>You have to work with the underprivileged to truly appreciate the feeling of entitlement they have. Like I like to say, “Who’s the dummy now?”</p>
<p>some academically capable students are able to graduate debt free.
A best friend of my older daughters, skipped high school, entered the university of washington early entrance program double majored in physics and astronomy, minored in Russian.
Her costs were very minimal , and limited to books and fees I believe, well under what she could afford to pay.</p>
<p>Debt free, no onus on getting a high paying job immediately.</p>
<p>My other daughters best friend recieved a state scholars award qualifying her for 4 years of tuition and fees to state- including independent in-state schools. Combined with her National merit award and I’m sure awards for being an amazing person-if she chose to attend a school in Washington, she would have most of any schools fees covered.</p>
<p>I think a few other states even have more scholarly awards for good students- don’t CA and NJ have awards?
There are a lot of awards out there, that are merit based, not need based- however, you have to look for them, they aren’t going to knock on your door unless you have a 97 mph fast pitch.</p>
<p>Yes. NJ dose have merit scholarship for state university. But from what I heard among the immediate aquantances, all of the kids who qualified for full ride at state U also got accepted by other top private schools chose to go the private, except one. Their parents, newly climbed social ladder to upper-middle class, pay out of hard earned pocket money after the tax. … the ‘whinning’ of some parents make other kids ‘smart’, they just don’t apply state colleges, if they think they have good enough stats to get one of privates they liked. So less ‘controversy’ in family once they got accepted. … That said, I’m sure for different families and cultural circuls, it’s matter of choice of ‘priority’ to put which on top of which.</p>
<p>Now, by reading so much of CC’s FA talk. I’m wondering if there has been some statitics data or future ones show how many and how much of those recieving FA give back to their almar mat?</p>
<p>The problem is the spiraling costs of higher education. Public/Private, doesn’t matter, it is all going up way quicker than wages are increasing. Where is the justification? Yes, we will get the investing in our future argument from schools, but this doesn’t mean we shouldn’t expect some type of fiscal responsibility. Bottom line is very few people can go to college without the family absorbing some type of financial hardship. </p>
<p>I get the impression that a lot of people think the so called “upper middle class” was born that way. Came out of the womb, with 2 luxury cars, a vacation home, to the private membership to the local club. Be serious, many started by working the factory line, driving a taxi, or stocking shelves. The little money they saved 15 years ago each year for juniors education seemed like a fortune back then and now makes little impact. They still sacrificed then like many are today to give Junior a better option come high school graduation day. Today, they may now be at the peak of their earning career and yes, they will need to pony up for money than the still struggling to make ends meet family in the neighborhood. To me, that makes perfect sense, but please don’t act like all these people have had it made in the shade forever. </p>
<p>I can not follow why some people begrudge middle class, upper middle class, or even rich students attending the public state university at the same cost they do. Doesn’t their tax money support the state they reside in? Isn’t that why we call it Public? The system is not perfect, and the gap and complaints will grow as the costs increase and the affordability decreases.</p>
<p>When I read these threads, it becomes clear that our society has a real double standard when it comes to students and their family backgrounds. </p>
<p>If a child has grown up poor, faced various obstacles, perhaps had parents who made poor choices or had lousy luck etc., etc., we, of course, applaud and support the student’s efforts to move forward and try to “overcome” the course taken by their parents.</p>
<p>However, if a child has grown up “rich” (as measured by their parents income), society immediately assumes that they have had every advantage and therefore their future must be defined by their parent’s actions and assets. The assumption is that rich parents = good parenting, good choices and support. </p>
<p>So the “rich” child’s future is tied to the action and whim of their parents, but the “poor” students future is not.</p>
<p>Just an observation, not a solution.</p>