<p>most black people are very ignorant and don't value education as a means to success. for this reason, this portion of the African American race don't succeed, but because there are now a lot of black american politicians, added to the mix a bunch of caucasian politicians who don't want their careers to be ruined because of rascism charges, u get the affirmative action, that is: admitting a certain amount of people of a certain race per year. thus defeating the banner of a merit based system.</p>
<p>anecdotal evidence: my high school, back in 2003, was 30% black, only 3 black people are in the top 10% in the graduating class of 500 people.
1. 3.3 gpa, 1270 sat got in NYU
2. 3.5 gpa, 1260 SAT got in Brown, CMU SCS, Cornell Engineering
3. 3.5 gpa, 1170 SAT got in Cornell, NYU, Emory. </p>
<p>all 3 of them are obviously well off, wear very expensive clothes, intelligent people. But, the stats speak for themselves. The second kid was in my AP calculus class, he scored a 2 on the Calculus AB test, and doesn't do well in science/math classes. yet he got in CMU SCS. where is the justice in this?</p>
<p>My point was that I almost never came in contact with them, which defeats the whole purpose of trying to parody "the real working world". I mean...if I can get through college while barely encountering any URMs (not through avoidance even, just from not actively seeking diversity), either the university is failing to create a diverse enough environment or there really isn't such a great need to learn to deal with diversity. Am I supposed to camp myself outside the Ambatana lounge in South Quad and try and make friends with everybody who goes in?</p>
<p>Also, if we're attempting to parody the working world, then how come spots aren't given to the most qualified people? It would be like giving a job to someone from WCC over somebody from U of M because the person from WCC didn't have the same opportunities. If you ignore the race issue and go off of qualifications, you're more likely to get proportions akin to those that appear in the workplace.</p>
<p>Dilsky, for some reason, I can't picture you as quiet and reserved. ;)</p>
<p>You don't seemed reserved on this site and make some excellent points.</p>
<p>AA doesn't work in most places because the demand for qualified URMs far exceeds the supply. In the book, The Early Admissions Game, the statistics show that is much, much easier to get into a top school than "unhooked whites." The SAT gap (based on 1600) was nearly 200 points at most of the top schools. (Harvard really doesn't need to compromise, and maybe one or two others, but all the other schools studied in the book comprise on the quality of the student.)</p>
<p>If AA is to be used, it should be based on socioeconomic status. (However, this is more difficult to measure than you might think.) I could have checked the box for Native American because of my maternal grandmother (I'm like 1/16th Native American), but I did not. I am not poor and don't even know any Native Americans.</p>
<p>Some African Americans have noted that it is also unfair to the unqualified URM students. They are setting themselves up for failure. Of course, there are very qualified URMs. However, they are a highly sought after group and every Vanderbilt, Michigan, you name it, wants their share. Thus, back to the supply and demand thing... There are not enough qualified URMs to meet the demand.</p>
<p>As far the so called "supply shortage", it kind of proves they're setting the bar too high for numbers of URMs. It's as if 10% of total qualified applicants are URMs, but we're expecting them to compose 20% of the incoming classes. And assuming you go on to work with people who are similarly qualified as you, that proportion is still going to be about 10%. It might be a little higher because we're giving better opportunities to people who otherwise wouldn't have them. And I stress better because it's not like if these people don't get into Michigan they're done for, they just go to a less prestigious university. But I don't see what's wrong with trying to make sure that people trying to get into a competitive institution have a level playing field (with proper adjustments for socioeconomic factors), it's this kind of competitiveness that helps a university keep it's reputation. It kind of reminds me of things like No Child Left Behind, where the focus is more on trying to bring everybody along opposed to helping push ahead the best and brightest, the people with the best chances at impacting the world. That should especially hold at what's generally considered a top national university.</p>
<p>Another problem I just thought of is related to the qualified URMs. Because of affirmative action, they get looked down upon by lots of people and are assumed to have only gotten in because of race, when they may very well be a perfectly qualified applicant.</p>
<p>for anyone interested, this thread will likely be full of blanket statements with no real argument; i suggest browsing the MIT board, particularly posts dating a little after decision time (right about when rejected applicants find a way to displace their anger). Ben Golub tends to outline the case against affirmative action well.</p>
<p>I assure you, there will be no original thought here, only mental masturbation.</p>
most black people are very ignorant and don't value education as a means to success. for this reason, this portion of the African American race don't succeed, but because there are now a lot of black american politicians, added to the mix a bunch of caucasian politicians who don't want their careers to be ruined because of rascism charges, u get the affirmative action, that is: admitting a certain amount of people of a certain race per year. thus defeating the banner of a merit based system.</p>
<p>anecdotal evidence: my high school, back in 2003, was 30% black, only 3 black people are in the top 10% in the graduating class of 500 people.
1. 3.3 gpa, 1270 sat got in NYU
2. 3.5 gpa, 1260 SAT got in Brown, CMU SCS, Cornell Engineering
3. 3.5 gpa, 1170 SAT got in Cornell, NYU, Emory. </p>
<p>all 3 of them are obviously well off, wear very expensive clothes, intelligent people. But, the stats speak for themselves. The second kid was in my AP calculus class, he scored a 2 on the Calculus AB test, and doesn't do well in science/math classes. yet he got in CMU SCS. where is the justice in this?
</p>
<p>People like you are the reason programs like affirmative action are still in place. This topic's posts are reminescent of a KKK rally.</p>
<p>Come on people, keep it civil or I'll have to shut this thread down. It is possible, at our age, to discuss such contraversial topics without resorting to inflamatory, accusatory, offensive and at times racist language.</p>
<p>While I agree, said poster is racist <strong>edit: removed possibly inflammatory language</strong>, how much would affirmative action help him? The additional minorites that are being added because of affirmative action are the lesser qualified ones, which are the ones drawing all the contempt from people like him. Even if a decent amount of them go on to do well, he'll still have the few who don't do as well to point at before his mindset can be corrected. And like I said before, if some people are getting preferential treatment through affirmative action, lots of people will assume that all minorities got in because of it. Wouldn't having just minorities who qualified on a fair playing field, even if there were fewer of them, do a better job of breaking his mindset?</p>
<p>
[quote]
While I agree, said poster is racist <strong>edit: removed possibly inflammatory language</strong>, how much would affirmative action help him?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Come on, dilksy, the objective is never to woo the outliers, but to woo the median.</p>
<p>i'm from queens, NY, the most diverse county in the nation. There is people of every race there. which part is rascist. why are you so close minded? Most black people from my school didn't care about education, and half of them didn't graduate from high school. I went back to my high school to talk about college, and the best classes had almost no black person in it, when i went to the worst class, its filled with black kids, and they didn't ask about schoolwork or anything, they were making fun of us, because we were so serious about school. these are the same kind of people getting AA treatment.</p>
<p>jeffl: The racist part is categorizing all black people into one label. That's as bad as affirmative action...it's treating people as a group, a presumed belief, rather than as individuals.</p>
<p>Oh crap. I just generalized a group. Sorry. I do know many under that category and love them for the most part, but not simply because they fit under that category.</p>
<p>Haha, yeah, in our spanish class we were doing practice AIM chats en espanol, and after bashing people from the UP for fun for a while, we ended up talking about how hispanic stereotypes are bad. Oopsy =P.</p>
<p>Well if "those" black people didn't care about school, they wouldn't be applying to college and therefore wouldn't be recieving any AA. Think about the subject a little deeper, jeffl.</p>
<p>I don't kow why I am even replying to jeffl's racist undertoned comments. There's so much more to why these kids act the way they do. Part of it is that these people are the children of those who went through segregation and when things were integrated they were just forced into "ghettoes" and I could right about the effects of mental slavery and a whole bunch of stuff. I could talk about how the crack epidemic destroyed the black community. I could mention the cycle of having no father figure continues. I could mention that because these kids come from homes which are generally very negative or don't push them enough then they needed special teaching circumstances as far as teachers who understand them. Not those garbage teachers who just pass you for anything and you get to ninth grade and can't count. I'm not even going into details here because I don't feel it is warranted. All of this complaining about AA, but you fail to realize the many disadvantages AA still face in society which is why colleges feel they deserve this boost in addition to bringing about diversity. </p>
<p>The ratio of black people pulled over to white is 2-1. Yet, while people are 3 times as likely to actually be caught with something or guilty of an actual offense. The jail population is disproportionately black and the laws on drugs that are mainly used by blacks and hispanics are so much stiffer than those on drugs mainly used by whites. I could go on and on. In the end a lot of blame must be placed on the individual as well. Also jeffl just because you are "reserved" and anti-social doesn't mean the diversity argument is flawed. What it really means is that you didn't take advantage of the chance to meet new and different people. Do you think some college officer is going to make you shake hands with that kid from Mexico and hold a conversation? Take the initiative and get to meet these kids before you judge them. One day AA should be based soley on socioeconomic standing, but not today.</p>