"Take full advantage of the college experience." What does it mean to you?

Parent Cafe
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<p>EllieMom, you are probably right about the immigrant experience promoting achievement. A couple of the articles I linked stated that the phenomenon only lasts 2 or 3 generations. Yet, there are groups that have consistently excelled over many generations (Jewish) and other groups who have consistently underperformed. There is also great variability among members of particular ethnic groups.</p>

<p>I am surprised by the high percentage of Asian Americans plus International students at many of the elite schools:
total Asian-American plus international, Asian-American alone
50.4% 39.6% California Institute of Technology
47.2% 36.4% University of California-Berkeley
44.5% 34.4% Polytechnic Institute of New York University
42.8% 32.4% University of California-Los Angeles
37.3% 22.9% Emory University
37.2% 26.8% Stony Brook University
36.7% 23.6% Carnegie Mellon University
35.3% 23.0% University of Southern California
34.5% 24.0% Massachusetts Institute of Technology
34.5% 10.5% Illinois Institute of Technology
32.9% 20.7% Wellesley College
31.9% 21.2% Rice University
31.8% 26.5% The University of Texas at Dallas
31.5% 19.4% New York University
30.7% 18.3% University of Pennsylvania
29.9% 18.9% Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art
29.7% 21.4% Harvey Mudd College
29.6% 16.4% Columbia University in the City of New York
29.5% 19.1% Princeton University
28.9% 17.7% Harvard University
28.7% 18.2% Johns Hopkins University
28.6% 20.3% Duke University
28.2% 14.2% University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
27.9% 9.0% Northeastern University
27.8% 13.2% Boston University
27.5% 17.4% Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus
27.3% 17.9% University of Chicago
27.1% 13.1% Brandeis University
26.5% 18.5% Case Western Reserve University
26.4% 19.0% Stanford University
26.4% 16.1% Yale University
25.7% 16.1% Cornell University
25.5% 17.0% Washington University in St Louis
24.7% 11.1% University of Rochester
24.6% 18.2% Northwestern University
24.6% 17.5% Barnard College
24.2% 11.3% Claremont McKenna College
23.8% 13.7% SUNY at Binghamton
23.6% 12.1% Brown University
22.9% 18.1% Scripps College
22.3% 14.2% Dartmouth College
22.3% 14.1% Swarthmore College
21.6% 11.8% Amherst College
20.7% 9.0% Georgetown University
19.6% 6.9% Macalester College
19.4% 7.2% Grinnell College
19.4% 5.7% University of Miami
18.6% 12.1% University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
18.3% 8.6% University of Minnesota-Twin Cities
18.2% 9.7% George Washington University
18.1% 15.0% University of Maryland-College Park
18.1% 11.7% University of Virginia-Main Campus</p>

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<p>What’s so surprising about higher-than-population representation among folks who have high aspirations, value education and hard work, and make it a point to apply to elite schools? Good for them! I don’t see what the “surprise” factor is at all. </p>

203

<p>Lots of non-Asian kids go to lots of colleges-those listed and more than three thousand others, do a variety of EC’s while studying and go on to have good, happy and productive lives. You’ve clearly got your mind made up, OP, and nothing anyone is saying is going to sway you. I assume you laid down your “rules” for your own offspring and they are successful, high GPA drones who found a spouse at college and are working in prestigious jobs as planned.</p>

<p>Let the rest of us raise our own kids as we see fit and just stop. </p>

204

<p>sseamom, my thoughts on this subject are open to refutation…I think it is actually many of the other posters in this thread who are in denial about the underachievement that prevails in American colleges and universities and about the reasons for it. And, the reasons for underperformance have much to do with parenting…misguided priorities, emphasizing the wrong things.</p>

<p>Here’s more to support my point from onlinecollege.org. (I wish they had named the author and given sources, though.)</p>

<p><a href=“20 Amazing Stats About Asian-American Achievement”>http://www.onlinecollege.org/2011/12/13/20-amazing-stats-about-asian-american-achievement/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>4 Asian kids just spend more time studying
In an exploration of Tiger Mother parenting, the New York Daily News discovered that the typically high achievement of Asian-Americans may not be due to harsh parenting, but rather, because they spend more time studying than other kids, and not necessarily because their parents force them to. In one study cited by the article, it was found that Asian-American 11th graders spent six more hours per week studying than white students of the same age. The article points out the extra study time can improve feelings of competence, self worth, and joy from completing a monumental task.</p>

<p>5 Asian-American kids aren’t more stressed than their peers
Although high achievement and hard work are stressed by both parents and students in the Asian-American culture, studies have found that they typically don’t experience more stress than other groups. University of California, Irvine, psychology professor Chuansheng Chen studies almost 5,000 11th-grade math students and found that Asian-Americans and white Americans typically reported the same high level of stress. Asian-American students are, however, slightly more academically anxious. Still, Chen concluded that high parental standards and intense studying didn’t seem to cause noteworthy psychological stress.</p>

<p>7 Asian-Americans take up a disproportionate share of the nation’s most prestigious universities
At some of the best universities in the United States, Asians are the biggest or one of the largest groups on campus. At the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the student body is 28% Asian-American, and the University of California at Berkeley is 39% Asian-American.</p>

<p>10 Overall, Asian-Americans achieve more college degrees
Although certain Asian-American groups may struggle with earning degrees, overall, Asian-Americans earn the highest college graduation rate. Asian-Americans have 65% college graduation rates, followed by whites at 59%. Additionally, Asian-Americans are the only racial group that does not have young men falling behind their predecessors in postsecondary attainment.</p>

<p>13 The achievement gap is getting even wider
The gap between Asian-American students and everyone else is large and growing. Nationwide, Asian-Americans in the upper echelons of standard math exams were scoring 17 points higher than white students, and has widened in recent years according to the Center on Education Policy. Jack Jennings, president of the Center on Education Policy, remarks that other groups should learn a lesson from Asian-American students, who are “working harder, doing better, and getting ahead.”</p>

<p>18 Western moms have much different ideas about education than Chinese immigrant moms do
There are certainly quantifiable differences between Chinese and Westerners when it comes to educational opinions, and that may shed light on why Asian-Americans seem to do so well in school. In one study, most Western mothers (70%) believed that “stressing academic success is not good for children” and that “parents need to foster the idea that learning is fun.” Chinese mothers feel completely different, with 0% of the Chinese moms responding positively to these statements. Rather, they believe that their children should be the best students, and that “academic achievement reflects successful parenting.”</p>

<p>19 Chinese kids spend more time studying than playing sports
Each day, Chinese parents spend about 10 times longer per day teaching and pushing children to engage in academic activities than their Western counterparts do. With this extra time, Western kids seem to spend it playing sports instead of studying.</p>

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<p>Collegehelp, why are you posting all this stuff? The topic of the thread is about what the college experience means to you. I don’t understand why you keep banging the Asian superiority drum. It’s irrelevant. Until such time as loads of international students start clamoring to get into Chinese universities, who cares?</p>

<p>It’s the lazy stupid Anglo-Saxon migrants who founded Harvard, you know.</p>

206

<p>I love how my D is “doing” college. She has a major that she loves which is also a vocation. She has a work study job. She did a study abroad. She plays on a sports team. She attends lectures, concerts, art exhibits etc and supports friends in their artistic endeavors. She has done a mentored independent study class. She seems to study hard but is smiling and having a great time (not duckface but actual, genuine smile) in every tagged photo that comes across my facebook feed. She has taken advantage of the resume and internship resources on campus. She has a long term “significant other”. She goes out to dinner now and then. She has taken a few classes just for fun. She is staying there this summer to do an internship, live in an off campus house, ride a bicycle around, shop at the farmer’s market, etc. It takes me back. I wish I had done it as “well”. :x </p>

207

<p>Do we have the same kid saint fan?
:wink:
My daughters ECs correlate with her major and have landed her a dream job before graduation.
I am so proud of her for being a first gen student and while she initially had a slowish start to find her footing, now that she is a senior she is really making the most of her opportunities, including out of class contact with her professors.</p>

<p>I give both of us a pat on the back.:smiley:
Me for recognizing that this directional school is a hidden gem and was a good fit for her, and to her for having initial doubts but plugging along anyway.
She came to love it so much that she is pushing hard for us to retire there, so she can always come visit!</p>

208

<p>Collegehelp,</p>

<p>It’s really interesting that I attended a public magnet HS with a slight Asian-American majority. However, if a classmate has to spend most/all of their time studying to attain top grades or just for its own sake, he/she isn’t likely to get much respect from classmate peers or many parents…including Asian/Asian-American ones. </p>

<p>If anything, it’d be considered a red flag the student concerned is exceedingly dim either in the academic/intellectual sense and possibly someone who should consider transferring to an easier high school. At best, a dull “hard worker” which was considered by many of us to be a damning backhanded compliment. </p>

<p>Classmates who studied a lot…especially 24/7 outside of class tended to be the ones struggling to keep their heads above academic water or regarded as dim dull plodders. Neither camp was considered worthy of much respect or even notice. </p>

209

<p>One of my interview questions - if you were hosting an important birthday for your best friend (wife, kid, parent…) , you were also heavily involved with a project which was due in the next few days, and you realized you didn’t have time to do both, what would you do? A lot of people said work came first and their friend (or whoever) would understand if they couldn’t be there. A handful of people said, “Obligation/commitment to friends/family is just as important to work. I would pay for the party (as planned), go to the party for an hour and go back to the project.” </p>

<p>I always hired people who could balance their lives. People are most productive when they are happy. They may love their work/study, but it is a lot of things outside of work/study, like personal relationships, sports, hobbies, that make them feel good about life. I built up a team at work from scratch over last 2 years. People on my team consistently worked harder and able to meet impossible deadlines when needed. They also had the highest morale in the company.</p>

<p>I am a Chinese immigrant. I see a lot of flaws in the traditional way of educating our kids. My kids always knew I had high expectations of them, but I was about having fun too. As long as they got their work done, I encouraged them to do ECs. They danced 15+ hours per week while in high school, but the minute their grades dropped, they had to pull back on dance. </p>

210

<p>My oldest son had a wonderful college experience. Double major. Double minor. President of six different organizations. Sat on the national board of his fraternity – made some awesome connections. Had a part-time job at various times. Studied abroad. Went to football games. He graduated No. 1 in his class and has a full ride to a top 7 law school. I think he did okay. We never pushed him academically. He is a very driven kid.</p>

<p>He definitely made the most of his college experience, and he has few regrets.</p>

<p>His kid brother starts college this fall. Like his older brother, he has a full tuition, undergraduate scholarship, but he will be a college student-athlete. He is very passionate about his sport, but he will find a balance with that sport, his academics and any extracurriculars he will join. He already has talked about finding a church group, looking into internships or jobs for the summers and attending lots of games.</p>

<p>Each kid is different. My job is to encourage each one to be the best person he can be.</p>

211

<p>My S is at an elite u in an honors program where he has to maintain a certain GPA. He’s heavily involved - holding leadership positions in a few organizations and is currently organizing friends into a super-long bike ride for no reason other than fun. Both H and I did other activities when we were there but S is really taking advantage of all the opportunities beyond academics and I think it’s terrific. </p>

212

<p>"…I think it is actually many of the other posters in this thread who are in denial about the underachievement that prevails in American colleges and universities and about the reasons for it. And, the reasons for underperformance have much to do with parenting…misguided priorities, emphasizing the wrong things."</p>

<p>Everyone can’t be above average, college help. What should the average GPA be across all college age kids in the US? 3.5?</p>

<p>And, if you came out of the library once in a while, you’d recognize that by far the greatest factor in students dropping out is finances. Not seeing Hillary Clinton give a speech and YoYoMa perform a concert, and not because on Saturday night everyone went out for pizza and beer. </p>

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<p>My D is in a challenging HS and there are 4 weeks left of school. Those four weeks will include finals, one state end-of-course test, a culminating all-subject project, and a science fair on the other side of the state. Yesterday she had dance practice that lasted all day. I’m certain she could have spent time working on the science fair model or studying, but people are counting on her to perform today. But the real reason I had no problem with her doing it is because it gives her joy. Seriously, she gets spoken to for smiling while dancing even when her part is a serious one. That joy makes her take on life, and gives her the power to face the long hard work she’ll be doing in the next 4 weeks. </p>

<p>The model will get done, the tests will be passed, the project will be completed and next school year will be looming. But her dance today will bring people joy. There is no comparison. She (and I) choose joy.</p>

214

<p>Both my older kids are way more active and more involved outside the classroom at college than I ever was … and they also have much better grades than I did … and I do not think that is random.</p>

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<p>^ One theory: grade inflation allows students to do less classwork and still get A’s.</p>

216

<p>My kids took much more advanced classes in high school than I did, so it makes sense that their college work went further still.</p>

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<p>I had to laugh at the excerpt from the Asian person indicating that he or she was limited to just two extracurriculars: piano and tennis. I was also amused at the idea that Asian parents teach their kids how much “fun” schoolwork can be–that’s not what I’ve seen, but maybe it’s true for some.</p>

<p>This discussion points up what I’ve noted before: that the study, study, study approach and the limitation to just a couple of (stereotypical) ECs, along with preference for a very limited number of college majors, is self-limiting behavior. Students who follow this course end up competing for a very limited number of slots at the most selective colleges–and in the US economy. That’s OK, if it fits with your goals.</p>