<p>The Dalai Lama is Asian. </p>
<p>If the activities, sports, clubs, theaters, music concerts at colleges aren’t important, then why do they have them? Why do the tour guides talk about them? Why do the schools not only allow them, but encourage them?</p>
<p>If all that was important was the classroom work, that’s all schools would offer. Admissions would just pick the highest ranked students available, using objective criteria like class rank and GPA. All students would live on campus, study in assigned groups, take the courses assigned. What difference would it make if you studied bio at Penn or at Notre Dame or at USC?</p>
<p>It’s called university of Phoenix. log on, do your work, get feedback from a professor.</p>
<p>That’s fine- but a different model.</p>
<p>I just received an email newsletter from the local club for my alma mater. Guess what they’re inviting us (alumni) to? That’s right, various cultural events - a concert at an outdoor venue, an afternoon at a sporting event, theater events, interesting / provocative speakers, etc. </p>
<p>Why do you suppose they do that, collegehelp? Because it bonds people together socially and makes them feel part of a community, and part of how you do that is to share experiences / events. Hey, I love studying in the library as much as anybody, but at one point, normal people put the books down and engage with other parts of life. </p>
<p>Attending a Big 10 university engineering student, “taking full advantage” included things like tutoring an inner city kid, exploring the course offerings each semester and taking classes like social cybernetics, urban/regional planning, 20th century music, medieval/Rennaisance music, Serbo-Croatian literature, geo-dynamics, metallurgy of ferrous materials, et.al, attending free music recitals, lectures, theater performances, playing in a department student/faculty b-ball league, frequent visits to the South Berg rathskeller, studying between classes in the Student Union jazz lounge. Ah, the memories.</p>
<p>Asian immigrant parents tend to give their children lots of love but they also maintain high expectations for academic work. There is some good advice for parents in the articles I linked:</p>
<p>“The study indicates the immigrants are more likely to succeed because they arrived here with high expectations, their parents expect them to work harder, and it’s likely they will have a stronger relationship than their American peers with their teachers.”</p>
<p>"Regardless of their roles during the day, Asian parents transform into educators at night. The Asian parents we knew placed the utmost importance in their role as educators, and their children reaped the benefits. None of the top scientists, musicians or athletes would reach their pinnacles of success by doing just the bare minimum. The same principle holds true for becoming a great student.</p>
<p>Asian parents do several things that allow their children to embrace the role of student:
•They manage their children’s time outside of school.
•They assume the role of educator after school hours.
•They teach their children that being a student is both fun and rewarding (with the help of their children’s educators).
•They have a genuine respect for educators.</p>
<p>To encourage your children to embrace the role of student, turn your home into an exciting place for learning!"</p>
<p>“It’s odd to think of people feeling simultaneously superior and insecure. Yet it’s precisely this unstable combination that generates drive: a chip on the shoulder, a goading need to prove oneself. Add impulse control — the ability to resist temptation — and the result is people who systematically sacrifice present gratification in pursuit of future attainment.”</p>
<p>“While Asian Americans make up only 4% of the U.S. population, Asian-American students make up a much higher percentage of student bodies in top universities around the country. The percentages are astounding: 24% at Stanford, 18% at Harvard, and 25% at both Columbia and Cornell. More Asian Americans over the age of 25 have bachelor’s degrees and advanced degrees than any other race or ethnic group.”</p>
<p>"children in Asian families tend to have more clearly defined roles than their American counterparts, and we believe this is one reason why Asian students tend to excel in the classroom.</p>
<p>While American children are dividing their time between a thousand different extracurricular activities in addition to household chores, Asian students are concentrating more on their schoolwork."</p>
<p>Maturity and personal growth was at the top of my D’s goals while in UG. While in Grad. School she has discovered that she was somewhat ahead of many others in this very imporntant in her career area. Other than that, she just wanted to pursue everything that she has planned for her 4 years in UG, not just her ultimate goal of getting into Med. School. She was able to add several things to her list and one original goal fell out - her sport participation, she filled her schedule to the point that there was no time left for this great passion, something that she has devoted 3 hours on a daily baisis practically since she was 5 y o all the way thru freshman year at college. I guess maturity also involve developing certain flexibility in regard to your goals. One point was also ommitted, but it never was her personal goal - managing finances. She was on full tuition Merit award and we paid the rest of her bills (very appreciative of her very smart choice of UG). She will have to learn in this area a lot after she graduates from Medical School. Never needed to be on her mind. Working while in UG was enough for the pocket money with a bit of balance still there 3 years later, priamary source of it after she has left her employment - several monetary awards for various academic and non-academic accomplishments.</p>
<p>Collegehelp- all due respect, but if I had to choose all over again whether to have my non-Asian kids responsible for household chores while they were growing up vs. a few extra points on standardized tests, I’d STILL opt for the household chores. Spouse and I both worked; the kids knew from an early age that keeping the household functioning was a group effort. I am not ashamed that by the time my kids left for college they could cook, vacuum, do laundry, serve a “company meal” by themselves, figure out what’s in the pantry or freezer and make a shopping list based on what was needed and what was available, etc.</p>
<p>I cannot imagine creating a family where the kids are told their only responsibilities are to study and do schoolwork, and that Mom and Dad are going to wait on them while they do it. Even a five year old can make a bed and it takes all of two minutes- hardly a time sink from their homework.</p>
<p>Having my kids teach the pinnacle in their fields is not my goal for them. I want them to be healthy, happy, self supporting and doing work they love. I don’t know why you think I should care or pattern myself after what Asian immigrant families do or don’t do. Great for them, but I don’t need to be so fearful of the world that I have to turn into a tiger mom and (metaphorically) whip them into shape.</p>
<p>And caring for academics - which I do, passionately - is not at all inconsistent with making friends, attending plays and sporting events, etc. Indeed, the smartest people are those who are engaged in the world. </p>
<p>“None of the top scientists, musicians or athletes would reach their pinnacles of success by doing just the bare minimum. The same principle holds true for becoming a great student.”</p>
<p>Collegehelp, have other people ever told you that you’re very black and white in how you look at the world? </p>
<p>You seem to be incapable of understanding that there are shades of gray in between “study, study, study and don’t even waste one evening hanging out with friends or seeing a play” and “party all night long, get F’s and flunk out.” Don’t you get that the majority of people are well into the gray – in a well balanced way?
And don’t you get that it’s not NECESSARY to “study study study and don’t waste one evening doing anything else” and still be successful in the world? What kind of nerd employers want people who are just drones with their heads stuck in books?</p>
<p>Excelling in the classroom isn’t equivalent to excelling in life, and it’s sad that you think so. And I’m someone who always, consistently, excelled in the classroom. But I had to learn some other life lessons the hard way.</p>
<p>“None of the top scientists, musicians or athletes would reach their pinnacles of success by doing just the bare minimum. The same principle holds true for becoming a great student.”</p>
<p>Collegehelp, I thought you believed that students should NOT become over-involved in sports, music, etc. I thought the only worthy goal in your mind is excellent grades. By your own metric, you shouldn’t be using music and sports to “prove” that studying all the time is the best use of a student’s time.</p>
<p>For success in the US, the “study study study” person will be at a distinct disadvantage. Everything you do outside the classroom, the lab or the library matters. In fact, many jobs are not obtained thanks to grades, (although a healthy GPA is to be had) but based on community involvement, participation in groups (including fraternities and sororities), breadth of experience, and internships (where a person who is perceived as a “drone” will NOT get very positive recommendations). American culture simply doesn’t reward the 24/7 study mentality the way some other cultures do. In the US, what matters most is what you DO. You see it all the times in the advice given by people who know what they’re talking about - and in the rejections received by students who couldn’t answer “what’s your favorite TV show?” or who can’t understand why they didn’t get into X College when they worked so hard all the time and sacrificed so much but could only produce a manufactured answer about what they do for fun, should give you a hint. American colleges, especially elite ones, do not like “drones”, nor do employers. They want smart, well-rounded or well-lopsided candidates who can be social and have a personal life.
Now, I’m a nerd, I love learning, and sometimes I think balance need to be restored in some undergrads’ scheduling habits, but if I didn’t go to plays, conferences, movies, readings, concerts, never or rarely saw friends, never or rarely tried out new restaurants, never listened to new music or paid attention to interesting radio programs, was completely disconnected from popular culture, never went hiking, biking, swimming,didn’t read for pleasure, didn’t go discovering new areas of my state and nearby ones, travelling, etc, then my learning would be sterile and pointless, my work would lack depth, and my understanding of fellow beings would be shallow. In short, I can only be a “thinker” if I have all those other activities that nurture my thinking, and for a student to be a great student all these activities come into play, too - good students just work hard, great students can connect everything and make it relevant. Without these experiences, they can’t go very far. More importantly, without these experiences, they don’t grow. Beside being a great student, being the best possible human being - a great friend, a great parent, a great mentor, etc. -, nurturing your mind, your body, your spirit, are all extremely important and none should be neglected while you’re in college.
College in the US is a multi-faceted experience, that’s why so many students want to come here from the rest of the world. American colleges, at their best, recognize that human beings who strive to be better, need to improve in more than one dimension.
Without those experiences, you could just sit at home and take online classes. College is an academic, cultural, social experience that emphasizes growth in all areas.
So, “taking full advantage of the college experience” to me means not selling myself short on all these dimensions and being as active as possible in these various dimensions, seeking balance and growth.</p>
<p>Great post, MYOS1634.</p>
<p>The “sitting and studying all the time” mentality presupposes that the “smartest student” is the one who memorizes what other smart people have already discovered, invented and created. “Smart people” are the ones who see insights where no one sees insights, who draw upon what they find and see all around them, not just in books and in labs.</p>
<p>It’s no wonder that the people who think like collegehelp does - that it’s all about study, study, study – manage to make it to middle level jobs and stop right there. They have no vision, no ability to motivate, persuade, innovative, create. They just know how to follow directions really, really, well. They have nothing interesting to say because all they can say is what someone else already said. </p>
<p>“While Asian Americans make up only 4% of the U.S. population, Asian-American students make up a much higher percentage of student bodies in top universities around the country. The percentages are astounding: 24% at Stanford, 18% at Harvard, and 25% at both Columbia and Cornell.”</p>
<p>Yet, fascinatingly, my D is at an LAC with an even higher % of Asians than that. She’s an officer in a particular club where about 8 of the officers are Asian and the other 2 are white. And yet - amazingly enough - I can see on Facebook that they all went out to dinner together, had fun, hung out, etc. </p>
<p>I think you’re projecting your own social awkwardness onto the world, collegehelp. I’m an introvert, I loved / love to study and learn, and I’m quite content in my own head, but that wouldn’t make it normal for me to never have gone out with friends, never to have hung out, gone to concerts, movies, restaurants, etc. </p>
<p>Even YoYo Ma found time to hang out with his friends and I know because I was roommates with one of his friends briefly.</p>
<p>A recent book touches on the point I am trying to make.
Top of the Class: How Asian Parents Raise High Achievers and How You Can Too</p>
<p><a href=“Why Do Asian American Students Excel in School? – IMDiversity”>IMDiversity – Careers, Opportunities, and Diversity Connect;
<p>"While many American parents encourage their kids to have as many extra-curricular activities as they can handle, Jane Kim says Asian parents usually don’t do that. “I think Asian families, many of them, make sure that the number one priority is education,” Jane says. “So they tend to limit a handful of extra curricular activities. Both Soo and I played piano. We also played tennis, and they are great for taking your mind from your studies and being able to mingle with other students. But I think if you have so many, it’s going to detract and you’re not necessarily going to do a great job in all of them.”</p>
<p>I think it’s interesting that everything CollegeHelp is passing along about Asian American parents and the emphasis they put on education has already been written—50 years ago about post-WWII immigrants from Eastern Europe, 75 years ago about urban Jews, 100 years ago about Scandinavians in the midwest, 150 years ago about Irish and German waves of immigrants coming to America, etc., etc. It’s more about the immigrant experience, class, and assimilation than it is about the behavior or value-structure of any particular ethnic group. </p>
<p>In a similar vein, you can see the same sort of thing when you look at the history of sport. Ethnic representation in sports like boxing reflect socioeconomic status and assimilation patterns rather than innate ability or cultural values. </p>
<p>Oh, see, here’s the difference. My kids are young adults. It is not for me to “limit” their extracurricular activities. They don’t have to check in with me before they go join a club at school or attend a sporting event or spend Saturday evening hanging out with friends.</p>
<p>And I don’t necessarily think it’s necessary to “do a great job” in everything that you do. My D plays a particular sport recreationally that she picked up at school. It’s of no consequence whatsoever whether she’s good or bad at it – what matters is that she has fun, gets some fresh air and exercise, and gets to socialize and have fun with the people she’s playing against. She’s also a member of a club that organizes trips to do XYZ activity. She doesn’t have to do a “great job”. It’s for FUN – a concept that you are having a hard time understanding.</p>
<p>Anyway, what’s odd about your stance is that you seem to think that the only way to prevent EC’s/socialization from taking over and distracting from one’s studies is to severely limit them, such that any time spent at them is a waste because they could be re-allocated to studying.</p>
<p>My D’s school is particularly intense - S’s is, too, but in a different, more well-rounded way. The FIRST thing we do when we talk to her is ask her - so do you have anything fun planned this weekend? Couldn’t care less what the actual activity is … Because it’s just not healthy, ESPECIALLY for a young person, to do nothing but study-study-study. I recognize that there are some weekends where you really do just have to study-study-study, especially before finals, but there is just no reason that a young person can’t work in other EC’s and / or social events.</p>
<p>How many hours devoted to EC’s and social events are too much, IYO? If a student works assiduously during the week but goes out Friday and Saturday night with friends, and gives himself Sun morn off to just relax, run errands, etc., is that excessive? What if one week (insert important and interesting public figure of your choice) comes to campus and gives a speech - is it ok to then take that hour off to go see them? Because you’ve explicitly said that these activities are wastes when they detract from time that could be spent studying.</p>
<p>I think the advice that @SomeOldGuy shared pages ago, “treat it like a job” was a great rule of thumb. I’m passing that along to D when she heads off to school. I think that approach would serve kids well in college and beyond. </p>