"Take full advantage of the college experience." What does it mean to you?

<p>“Didn’t realize Ivy league has singing as a sport and put singers on academic probation making them ineligible to play. :D”</p>

<p>I know somebody who sings in a ivy league a cappella group - they do 100 gigs a year and travel and perform almost every non-school day of the entire year - so yes it is like a sport in terms of the level of commitment.</p>

<p>I want to add that many high achieving kids have lived a very over-scheduled and stressful high school career and don’t want to continue that lifestyle in college. So, they choose to join fun activities instead of resume builders and pick only the events on campus that interest them. Hopefully, having a less stressful fulfilling college experience.</p>

<p>

This is great advice which I also gave my kids. I experienced this myself when I went back to school for a year after working for a number of years. I found that if I went over to the school and went to the library to work during the day (apart from classes), I almost never had any work to do in the evening–this was because I had gotten used to working steadily during the day. It’s hard to do this in college, though.</p>

<p>slithytove, if you are a professor, then you should be a trained skeptic about data and statistics. The things I see and hear are indeed data and one’s personal experiences over a long period of time enable one to perceive the truth better than the statistics you may read, or, at least enable one to use common sense and do a “reality check” about the statistics one reads. By the way, why is it ok for everyone else in this thread to extrapolate from personal experience but not me? Do you have a bias?</p>

<p>On a different topic…I did a calculation using IPEDS data to see if college expenditures on student services (not academic support) were related to graduation rates. Among public schools, the higher the proportion spent on student services relative to instructional expenses, the lower the graduation rate (correlation = -.24). Among private schools, the negative correlation was even higher (-…33). The negative relationship between spending on student services and graduation rates was especially high among private liberal arts colleges (-.38). I also found that, the more selective the school, the less spent on student services (-.32).</p>

<p>How would you explain all this? Student services does not include academic support services. I think it includes athletics and clubs. Here is how expenses are broken down by colleges for reporting to the US Department of Education.</p>

<p>Expenses by Functional Classification </p>

<p>01 – Instruction – Enter the instruction expenses of the colleges, schools, departments, and other instructional divisions of the institution and expenses for departmental research and public service that are not separately budgeted. The instruction category includes general academic instruction, occupational and vocational instruction, special session instruction, community education, preparatory and adult basic education, and remedial and tutorial instruction conducted by the teaching faculty for the institution’s students. Include expenses for both credit and non-credit activities. Exclude expenses for academic administration if the primary function is administration (e.g., academic deans). Such expenses should be entered on line 04. (FARM para. 703.4)</p>

<p>02 – Research – Enter the expenses for activities specifically organized to produce research outcomes and either commissioned by an agency external to the institution or separately budgeted by an organizational unit within the institution. The category includes institutes and research centers, and individual and project research. Do not report nonresearch sponsored programs (e.g., training programs) on this line. Training programs generally are reported on line 01 (Instruction). (FARM para. 703.5)</p>

<p>03 – Public service – Enter the expenses specifically for public service and for activities established primarily to provide noninstructional services beneficial to groups external to the institution. Examples are seminars and projects provided to the particular sectors of the community. Include expenses for community services, cooperative extension services, and public broadcasting services. (FARM para. 703.6)</p>

<p>04 – Academic support – Enter the expenses for support services that are an integral part of the institution’s primary mission of instruction, research, or public service and that are not charged directly to these primary programs. Include expenses for libraries, museums, galleries, audio/visual services, academic development, academic computing support, course and curriculum development, and academic administration. Include expenses for medical, veterinary and dental clinics if their primary purpose is to support the institutional program, that is, they are not part of a hospital. (FARM para. 703.7) </p>

<p>05 – Student services – Enter the expenses for admissions, registrar activities and activities whose primary purpose is to contribute to students emotional and physical well-being and to their intellectual, cultural and social development outside the context of the formal instructional program. Examples are career guidance, counseling, financial aid administration, student records, athletics, and student health services, except when operated as a self-supporting auxiliary enterprise. (FARM para. 703.8) </p>

<p>06 – Institutional support – Enter the expenses for the day-to-day operational support of the institution. Include expenses for general administrative services, executive direction and planning, legal and fiscal operations, administrative computing support, and public relations/development. (FARM para. 703.9) </p>

<p>08 – Net grant aid to students (net of tuition and fee allowances) - Enter on this line ONLY scholarships and fellowships recognized as expenses in your GPFS. Do not include Federal Work Study expenses on this line. Work study expenses should be reported within the function where the student worked. Whereas in the past, most student awards were recorded as expenses under this classification, most student awards are now reported as either scholarship allowances or agency transactions. Student awards, made from contributed funds or grant funds, that are under the control of the institution (the institution decides who gets the award) result in allowances that reduce tuition or auxiliary enterprise revenue. Student awards, made from grant funds, that are made to students identified by the grantor are considered agency transactions and do not result in either revenues or expenses. Scholarships and fellowships in the form of allowances applied to tuition and fees should be reported in Part C, line 09, and not included in Part E, line 08. Scholarships and fellowships in the form of allowances applied to auxiliary services should be reported in Part C, line 10, and not included in Part E, line 08. (FARM para. 703.10) </p>

<p>According to NACUBO Advisory Report 97-1 (January 17, 1997), scholarships and fellowships are “expenses to the extent that the organization incurs incremental expense in providing goods and services.” Thus payments made by the institution to students or third parties in support of the total cost of education are expenses if those payments are made for goods and services NOT provided by the institution. Examples include payments for services to third parties (including students) for off-campus housing or for the cost of board not provided by institutional contract meal plans. </p>

<p>11 – Operation and maintenance of plant - This line, in conjunction with Column 4, is used to show the distribution of operation and maintenance of plant expenses to the various functions. Enter all expenses for operations established to provide service and maintenance related to campus grounds and facilities used for educational and general purposes. Specific expenses include utilities, fire protection, property insurance, and similar items. Also included are information technology expenses related to operation and maintenance of plant activities if the institution separately budgets and expenses information technology resources (otherwise these expenses are included in institutional support). FASB institutions do not report this function on their GPFS; instead these expenses are charged to or allocated to other functions. In the column for operation and maintenance of plant (column 4), enter (as a negative amount) on this line the total amount of operation and maintenance of plant expenses allocated to the other functions. (FARM para. 703.14)</p>

<p>collegehelp, I think part of your problem here is that you’re mostly talking to people who aren’t very worried about graduation rates. Indeed, a lot of CC denizens have kids who go to private schools with very high graduation rates–or who have motivated kids who just aren’t that likely to have the kinds of problems you are talking about. But if this kind of issue bothers you personally, you can send your kids to a commuter school that doesn’t have a lot of extracurriculars. They can live at home with you, and you can stand over them to make sure they are studying enough. And maybe this is a good idea for some kids. But you’re talking to a lot of people who did fine in academics while doing plenty of ECs, and who have kids who are doing the same.</p>

<p>Hunt, no, the problem is that I am concerned about the futures of millions in younger generations and the future of our nation while most people here are concerned mostly about themselves and their kids. See post #1 “Developing good values/social responsibility”.</p>

<p>I missed a fair amount of class in college for musical purposes (mainly travel to performances). As far as I was concerned, my family was paying for the arts experiences as much as for the classes, so I thought it was a tradeoff, not a loss.</p>

<p>

Then you’re focusing on the wrong problems. On the list of things that cause kids to fail in college, involvement in extracurriculars must be very far down the list. If you wanted to ask why kids at college had to drink so much, you’d probably be addressing 100 times as many kids who drop out.</p>

<p>This quote from the Dalai Lama just came across my newsfeed. I think, OP, it sums up exactly what some of us have been saying all throughout this thread: </p>

<p>When asked what surprised him about humanity the most, the Dalai Lama replied:</p>

<p>“Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”</p>

<p>Hunt, I went through my previous posts to find where I said that ECs are high on the list of causes of failure. Go back and read what I said. I am not sure how my urging to make academics the highest priority turned into ECs cause failure. Some of the other posters manufactured that idea.</p>

<p>The Dalai Lama is naïve. He should get a real job instead of feeding people a lot of unrealistic, feel-good pablum. You would be better off continuing to work hard but simply try not to stress too much and avoid getting sucked in too much by the self-indulgent temptations.</p>

<p>Learning balance is a critical component of college. Not sure that “always studying” at the expense of anything else is the best way to be for four years, although studying should be the top priority. Good ECs can be a gateway into a good job through experience and connections, or can help a kid find their passion. But there are kids that get overly involved in ECs to the point that their GPA suffers. I would think those are few and far between while many more kids that get too involved in Greek life or the party culture . Part-time jobs that have flexibility should not impact a kid’s GPA, although, again balance is needed. Working full time and going to school full time is tough to balance. One of my college jobs was in a Department library. Great job as all I did was sit at the circulation desk and study, occasionally checking out a book or helping someone find something they needed. </p>

<p>Most of us remember the special times in college more than the day to day grind of class, homework, library. Even in Grad School, where we all took academics and research very seriously, there were times to have fun and yes party a bit. Most young people (and even most older ones) can’t sustain 24/7 studying for an entire semester. </p>

<p>I believe in working and preparing as well, but I think it’s a big mistake to think of each phase of life as preparation for some later phase. I think you should fully live each phase of life. After all, you never know which phase is going to be the last.</p>

<p>If he didn’t have 6,000+ posts, I would think OP is a ■■■■■. Anyone who think the Dalai Lama is worthless and needs to “get a job” is either making it up for the sake of seeing his thread continue or the most one-dimensional thinker I’ve ever encountered. The Dalai Lama does a ton of good in engaging people to help others and in advocating for peace and social justice. I suppose OP think all religious people should get off the dole and get “real jobs” too.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Yes!! The college experience should be so much more than the narrowly-focused vocational training that some people envision it as. Learning happens everywhere, not just in the classroom. And the kind of nose-to-the-grindstone enjoy-life-later attitude is neither inspirational nor aspirational for most people, let alone teenagers and young adults. </p>

<p>As the person who will be footing the bill for my daughter’s college education, I would be disappointed if she moved away to college and spent all her time in the lab or at the library. I want her to explore her new city, try new things, get know new people. </p>

<p>I am not raising my kids to be “valuable employees.” I want them to happy, productive people—on the job but also in their community, with their friends and family, and in their own heads. Work is just one part of well-balanced life. There is so much more. Before college. In college. After college. Hopefully, for as long you live. </p>

<p>Don’t take my comment personally, sseamom. I read that quote and it left me wondering “what exactly does the Dalai Lama want people to do?” He survives because other people work hard. Where is his practical advice? Should we sit and meditate and wait for someone else to bring us our lunch? Should we all walk off into the woods, eat nuts and berries, and enjoy the sunset? God helps those who help themselves. That’s the way its been since Eve bit the apple.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>The working world is much harder than college. So is grad school. The higher you go, the harder you work. People in their 40s and 50s in high end professional jobs are working like dogs. College is a time for self-cultivation and exploration. You will never have a better chance to do so. </p>

<p>“Go back and read what I said. I am not sure how my urging to make academics the highest priority turned into ECs cause failure. Some of the other posters manufactured that idea.” </p>

<p>Because you seriously (and laughably) thought that students shouldn’t waste their time attending lectures, plays and concerts - as if that hour listening to a political figure speak would make all that much difference in grades. </p>

<p>"
The working world is much harder than college. So is grad school. The higher you go, the harder you work. People in their 40s and 50s in high end professional jobs are working like dogs. College is a time for self-cultivation and exploration. You will never have a better chance to do so."</p>

<p>Absolutely. My H and I say we work like dogs. We come home and collapse. We have to make time to exercise and take care of our health. We don’t even remotely have the time we did in college to go see plays, speakers, concerts, etc. College is the time to do it - it’s all right there, it’s cheap or free. </p>

<p>Why do Asian and immigrant students outperform others by such a wide margin? They get the most out of school academically.
Here are a couple of links. I think the Asians are going to inherit the earth, not the meek.</p>

<p><a href=“How do Asian students get to the top of the class? | Parenting”>How do Asian students get to the top of the class? | Parenting;

<p><a href=“Hidden tigers: why do Chinese children do so well at school? | Schools | The Guardian”>http://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/feb/07/chinese-children-school-do-well&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“Why Immigrants' Children Do Better in School - ABC News”>http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/immigrants-children-smarter-family-cultural-tools-succeed-study/story?id=17284688&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“Opinion | What Drives Success? - The New York Times”>Opinion | What Drives Success? - The New York Times;

<p>

If it’s going to be a world of people working like dogs until they drop, they can have it.</p>

<p>I couldn’t care less what “Asians, immigrant students,” or people who are polka-dotted do, collegehelp. </p>

<p>It’s just not emotionally or mentally healthy for an 18 - 21 to study, study, study non-stop and not enjoy some downtime with friends – which might encompass hanging around and shooting the breeze, going out to eat, seeing movies / concerts, going on a date, watching a sporting event, whatever. No one is talking about needing to get wasted every evening or spending hours on video games, but you can’t just care for the mind. You have to care for your physical body (diet, exercise, sleep) and you have to care for your soul / spirit / heart too – which involves activities that enrich the soul and deepen connections.</p>

<p>I myself am very guilty of being such a workaholic I neglect everything else except for my H and kids. I have been making it a point to carve out time to care for my physical self through exercise and through making time to have coffee with old friends I haven’t seen in a while. These things leave me refreshed in a way more working doesn’t. And I love my work and I’m a workaholic. </p>