Taking College Courses in High School

Pre-College Issues High School Life
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I’m currently a junior in high school and I’m going to be taking math courses at local colleges for the next 2 years of high school and am wondering where to take them. I’m currently enrolled at my local community college for a statistics course in place of AP Statistics so that I’d have enough math credits to graduate high school.

Starting next semester, I’ll be learning Calculus III and am hoping to branch towards abstract algebra, probability theory, graph theory and number theory rather than linear algebra and differential equations, which are the only higher level math offered at my local community colleges. I live not too far from a 4-year college, and I know a few outstanding mathematicians who have taken courses there as high schoolers (probably online), and am considering doing the same. That way, not only would I have more access to courses, but I’d also have a higher chance of getting my credits transferred to 4 year colleges after I graduate.

Is this a recommended way of taking college courses? And if so, does anyone know the process for enrollment into a 4-year college course as a high schooler?

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Does your school district offer a concurrent enrollment program?

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@yucca10 No, unfortunately it doesn’t. My school offers up to AP Calculus BC which I took last year. They don’t really take responsibility for finding courses for higher level students to take unless they need it to graduate, as I did with Statistics (the course wasn’t approved at the time I took it, but they accepted it anyway since I needed another class to graduate).

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Would you be an intended math major?

Linear algebra and differential equations are commonly required for math majors.

Each college may have its own policies on non matriculated students, including high school students, taking courses there. You may need to be flexible in course choice, since schedule may not necessarily be made for the convenience of high school students.

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@ucbalumnus I’m intending on becoming a Computer Science major, but I do have a super strong interest in math as well. I’m probably going to double major in computer science and math, or at least minor in math. I know that linear algebra and differential equations are essential for a math major, but I want to get more into the computer science side since that’s my main career focus. On top of that, I’m just generally more interested in combinatorics/probability type math than I am with calculus and such.

And I understand that scheduling may be a problem, as it is at my local community college as well (there are only 2 courses that fit my schedule for stats, and both require me to sacrifice an extracurricular). I’m just guessing that I might be able to take some of the courses of interest to me since there have been people in the past who have done that.

lol, you’re probably wondering who I’m talking about at this point. There’s this super successful mathematician and math olympian named Evan Chen, who competed in the IMO and took several college courses from SJSU and UC Berkeley in high school (his coursework history is at http://web.evanchen.cc/upload/math-coursework.pdf )

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Linear algebra and discrete math will be required for a CS major. Upper level CS theory courses will be like math courses. You may find math courses in algebra and number theory particularly interesting if you want to go into cryptography.

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@ktong777 My son also took Calc BC in 10th and had to find math classes that worked with his schedule and interests for the rest of HS, including needing credits his HS would accept to meet the 3 year math graduation requirement. From your other posts it looks like you are in California, so our experiences may be relevant.

He did take classes during HS at both our local community college and our local UC. One semester nothing else worked with his schedule and he took multivariable online through a community college out of our area. (Based on that class, I would recommend against online classes that are just moderated Pearson MyMathLab courses.)

His HS accepted all the courses for dual credit, but their transcript only listed course numbers, not titles. You can’t expect colleges to look up a bunch “MATH 251” etc entries. So, he ended up with 4 college transcripts that he had to send to the colleges he was applying to.

Community college classes are free for HS students here, but UC classes cost us about $1000/class. So, check with your parents on that.

Registering for UC classes was a little tricky. He registered through our UC Extension, and they only let HS students register on the first day of classes and they couldn’t waitlist. We learned that students can make appointments to talk with professors in advance to ask about plans to add courses, and showing interest that way seemed to help. In one case, he needed a professor to waive the prerequisite, and it worked out fine. (The prof had him take 1/2 the final from the prerequisite class right there in his office.)

In his case, partly because of scheduling, instead of going further into the math sequence, he ended up taking some theoretical CS classes that he really enjoyed. The math & CS courses he took after Calc BC in HS were:

– Discrete Math (CC. Interesting material but taught at a pretty easy level.)
– Multivariable (Online CC. No interaction with class or prof; test generation software for homework and exams.)
– Linear Alg (UC, large lecture hall+recitation section. Said it was interesting & useful but not taught with enough theory for his taste.)
– Automata & Formal Languages (UC mid-sized class. Lots of theory. He really loved this one.)
– Computer Organization & Logic Design (UC mid-sized class. Liked this one too.)

In general, yes he did find the classes at the UC more challenging and satisfying than the courses at community colleges. Also, the UC classes were on the quarter system, and so perhaps the pace was quicker, which he liked. Fitting quarter-based college classes into a semester-based HS schedule can be a trick, though.

You mentioned wanting credits to transfer when you graduate from HS. That will depend on where you end up attending. At many colleges, both California community college and UC credits will transfer. At other colleges, nothing transfers. But that can be fine too–you either test out or retake courses on a proof-based level.

One side note is that when calculating your uncapped GPA for the UCs (which Berkeley and UCLA use), college courses count on a 2:1 basis vs. high school courses.

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@Ynotgo Thank you so much for the information! I’ll probably stick to taking courses at community college. There are no nearby UCs in my location (I think the closest is an hour away), and the closest 4-year university is also decently far from my house (about a half hour drive).

Sign ups for next semester courses just opened not long ago at my local community college, and the Multivariable Calculus professor has a PhD from MIT (my dream college :slight_smile: ), and shares several interests with me. I’ll probably enjoy that class more than I would the same class at the closest 4-year university.

Nonetheless, I’ll probably try to get in touch with some of the professors at my nearby 4-year university for possible research opportunities in areas I’m interested in.

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Evan is a once in a generation math genius who went thru the same schools as my kid. For all his accomplishments I think he’s only 4 years older than my kid. Interestingly enough he never was into chess even though we always had great teams at our elementary school and was a rite of passage for all the smart kids.

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I think I would take DiffEq and Linear Algebra at the CC. See if you have a dual enrollment program so it would be free (talk to your guidance counselor). You will need to take these classes anyway…I know the other classes might be more exciting to you now, but why not get these pre-reqs out of the way and take the other classes when you go to your 4 year college.

If you are in California, your CC classes should transfer easily to any UCs/CSUs.

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@ProfessorPlum168 I agree, Evan is a genius :slight_smile:

@bopper The Community college classes are free for high schoolers in my area, so price isn’t an issue. As for dual enrollment, I’ve talked to my guidance counselor, and they would not accept dual enrollment. Either I send the transcript as high school credit or college credit, not both. And yes, the credits are UC-accepted. I’m just wondering if they’d be accepted at privates such as Stanford or MIT.

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@ktong777 MIT says right on their website no. But someone told me the other day (maybe here?) her kids’ classes were accepted. It has to do with them being taken for dual enrollment.

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Should not be a problem to take the college courses as college credit only. You will have to report / send transcripts from all high schools and colleges attended to colleges that you apply to and the one you matriculate to. The one you matriculate to will want the college transcript to determine transfer credit.

@sbjdorlo has experience with a kid who took advanced math at California community colleges and a CSU or UC while in high school (though home school) before eventually matriculating to MIT and getting transfer credit for at least some of them (probably required keeping syllabi and course materials for individual evaluation of transfer credit for each course). You may want to ask her.

Stanford is probably similar, but probably more familiar with California community colleges than most super-selective private schools.

However, you may want to be careful of University of Michigan, which is rather stingy with transfer credit (according to its transfer credit web site) and is more likely to make you retake all of your college math if you matriculate there.

Caltech and Harvey Mudd are unlikely to give transfer credit for typical college math courses for a different reason, which is that their “calculus”, etc. courses are proof-based and therefore not equivalent to those at other colleges (indeed, they also expect entering frosh to have seen regular high school or college calculus before).

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@ktong777 there is no set answer since each private school does its own thing with dual enrollment classes just like they do with AP or IB. In general highly selective colleges view dual enrollment courses as decent for admission (unless you take all fluff/developmental classes) but not necessarily for credit. Even if your high school counts dual enrollment classes towards high school credits and puts them on a high school transcript colleges most likely still want to get an official college transcript from the dual enrollment college.

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Remember also that AP, IB, and college credit earned in high school may be looked at in three possible ways after you matriculate to a college:

A. Credit units toward the number needed to graduate. May be cancelled if you take a course covering the same material.
B. Subject credit to fulfill requirements.
C. Advanced placement into more advanced courses than the usual frosh level ones.

For example, an AP calculus BC score of 5 or college calculus 1 and 2 courses may be given zero, one, two, or all three of the following, depending on the college you matriculate to:

A. 8 (or some other number of) credit units toward the total of 120 needed to graduate (but some or all credit may be lost if you take calculus 1 and/or 2 again).
B. Fulfillment of a calculus 1 and 2 requirement for your major if your major requires calculus 1 and 2, and fulfillment of a quantitative reasoning general education requirement.
C. Advanced placement into calculus 3 or any other course that lists calculus 1 or 2 as a prerequisite.

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This sounds crazy or I might be missing something. The OP school requires four years of math but doesn’t provide it. If he was a junior in BC he would of been okay? My daughter class of 20 had BC sophomore year. She had to take 8th grade math at the high school (different school district) but got high school credit for that. She’s not STEM so she has AP stats and she will be done. I know in our case Multivariable is taught at certain high schools in the district or kids are bussed to the CC. I guess I should of prefaced this by saying we are from Illinois

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Math in high school is commonly seen as a leveled subject, so that a student who completes precalculus or calculus is assumed to know all (or most) of the lower level math courses that may or may not show on high school records (because they may have been taken before high school).

So a student who uses up the high school’s most advanced offerings by finishing the sequence leading to calculus before 12th grade usually does not have to worry about showing “four years of high school math” to colleges (or for high school graduation), though verifying the details should be done. Of course, if such a student is interested in taking more math, s/he can choose to take it at local colleges or whatever if available.

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@Nicki20 My school requires 3 years of math, but recommends 4. The classes go up to BC, and AP Statistics was originally offered online at my school, but we changed systems this year and the new system does not have AP Statistics, which is why I had to take it at community college. Their 3-year requirement is also why they’re accepting the course for high school credit with a 5.0 GPA (same weight as AP). Normally they only accept courses for 5.0 GPA if you spend at least 5 hours per week in the course (they wouldn’t accept my AP Chinese class for a 5.0 GPA because we met for 3 hours a week). Also, I go to a small charter school (100 students per grade), and we don’t get much funding.

@ucbalumnus My school still requires students to take 3 years or more of math even if they do skip grades in it. Normally they don’t allow you to skip grades in math unless you request it with your parent’s permission. They make it clear beforehand that you must find math classes by yourself and pay for them yourself if you want to skip grades.

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Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but since I was tagged in this thread and my eldest son was the one who got community college transfer credit at MIT, I thought I’d chime in. I don’t know if this link will post or not:

http://uaap.mit.edu/first-year-mit/first-year-academics/incomingcredit/previous-study/ap-and-transfer-credit-transfer-credit/how-seek-transfer-credit

If it doesn’t, search for “MIT credit transfer form”, and you’ll see that MIT does indeed accept courses taken at community colleges and other 4-year universities for transfer credit. The key is to document carefully, know MIT’s policy (they don’t take transfer credit for physics courses, for example, though a student can place out of 1st semester physics if they get a 5 on both AP physics C exams, and they have other courses kids can try and test out of), and submit the documentation in a timely manner.

Each school has a different policy, and I agree with UCB that places like Harvey Mudd and Ivy Leagues take little or no community college transfer credit.

OP, my son took all his math through the local community college beginning with Pre-calc in 7th grade and finishing with Differential Equations in 10th grade. He ran out of classes, so he just did 2 1/2 years with a math mentor/tutor online, John Rosasco (Math and Music Studio), studying things like Dynamical Systems and Real Analysis in a very low key way. He also was a Mathlete.

We didn’t have the budget for him to take classes at the local UC and SDSU, our local Cal State, doesn’t (or didn’t) allow high schoolers to take courses there. He went in through the back door and audited three semesters of upper-division physics courses, eventually being invited to do research and enter his research in an u/g competition at SDSU. His prof even got him a job tutoring for one of the upper division physics courses. Oh, the irony. :slight_smile:

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@sbjdorlo Wow, your son’s amazing! Also, just curious, what was the research like? Was it like a meet every weekend to study something unexplored, or was it more free and relaxed? Also, did it require a ton of knowledge in the subject, or was it more like an opportunity to get the experience? I’m going to try to find Mathematical research (probably algebra, geometry, combinatorics, or number theory) opportunities at SJSU over the summer, but I don’t really know what to expect. I don’t know if I’d have the mathematical depth to do research either.