After getting into five top tier undergraduate piano programs and one state piano performance program, I think S is going to take the no debt state choice. The faculty is wonderful and the piano department is warm and caring towards the students. Even though there is a longing by S to be in a large city in the middle of the action, S has the maturity to see that debt is no way to begin your adult life. He is saving his “big purchase” for grad school.
I’m very proud of him for being so understanding of our being in the middle class and not being able to afford the $62,000-38,000 price tags for the top tier.
For future parents shopping for the right fit financially, I recommend researching great profs in state institutions. Attend a summer program with those profs to get on the radar and see if the student gels with the prof. Or take private lessons with the prof. Be sure to have at least one school that the student’s family can afford with a good connection to the profs going into the applications/auditions. Or be prepared to pay $$$.
S got into the top tiers with $5,000-25,000 off of sticker price unappealed value. He has an appeal in at one of them but no breath holding on that coming through. I think we all realize they just keep bumping down the wait list until a family can afford the bill. Some families want the name and the institutions know someone will most likely pay for it. The only thing that may sway the norm is a prof that might see a diamond in the student.
So we continue to wait in the April Angst, with a plan of patience, persistence and hard work for the future masters auditions. Knowing that S will get to his goal without a crushing debt is number one.
Who knows…maybe the top tier appeal will be productive…
Your S is very mature and wise. I just made a comment in the journey thread about this so I won’t repeat it here.
Smart young man! If the appeal is successful, that would be awesome! Either way, knowing he made such a smart decision should make you proud. We too were glad D fell in love with her financial back up, decided even before her acceptance to her top school came out. It was still a hard decision, one with tears but she knows grad school is in her future and we won’t be able to help with grad school if she goes to her top choice in NYC. We almost bit the bullet but even with a great appeal, it was still going to cost $100k-$160k with living expenses…
We researched the prof at financial back up and her students. Students went to almost every top school for grad school, many are now teaching at the college level, in orchestras and all that we researched are employed in music in some capacity. The prof is only in her 40’s so that’s quite a resume for a state school. Cost for us after academic merit and talent merit, $12k a year. It would be much less if D had scored higher than a 28 on the ACT! Could have been almost free!
She now has money to travel to festivals, master classes and competitions, take music intensives, private lessons and even a study abroad. We will know in four years when she’s trying for grad school if not choosing a top tier under grad hurt her.
@sunnysar “She now has money to travel to festivals, master classes and competitions, take music intensives, private lessons and even a study abroad.” This is exactly what we are thinking! There is money available to do more career development.
@sunnysar “ We will know in four years when she’s trying for grad school if not choosing a top tier under grad hurt her.” I have read way too many stories on CC about students going to the affordable UG and having no problems getting into the top tier grad programs. With research students and parents can find top tier teachers in affordable colleges. I believe it’s how much growth the student can achieve and be competitive in the auditions.
@bridgenail thank you for sharing your experience with your D. This is a reassuring the decision he is making so far.
There is a lot of competition for academic jobs so you can definitely find some great faculty with impressive pedigrees at some less well known schools. Anecdotally I have known some students who went from UG schools such as Central Michigan U, Wayne state U and Hillsdale to places such as CIM and UM. Those students worked hard and took advantage of the opportunities at those schools.
There may be some difference in the overall strength of the peer group but that can be sought out in grad school and may be less important for a piano student overall. Also as the parent of a recent grad who is making his way so far being able to support himself entirely with music performance jobs, there isn’t a lot of wiggle room and really a lifesaver not to have any debt.
Good for him, and you!
@cellomom2 “There may be some difference in the overall strength of the peer group but that can be sought out in grad school and may be less important for a piano student overall. ” This is exactly what I just told my husband! It’s why on the outside chance the top tier school gives us a number that is reasonable we may spring for the UG high purchase price. Then hope he can get into a heavily funded grad program;) Just glad we have a solid option!
Best of luck to your son!
One suggestion might be for your student to look at where he or she would like to be in ten years and study the bios of the persons who are in those positions. What undergrad/grad schools did these people attend? If you’re finding that they attended the schools you’re considering as no-debt choices, then you’re on the right track. There is no one-size-fits-all answer in the music industry-- so many variables. While one doesn’t want to “pennywise and pound foolish”–cutting off potential future successes-- it makes no sense to accrue debt when a state school would offer a comparable education to a private school.
The only argument for debt at the undergrad level would be if the progress achieved at a top school means that later, when applying to grad school, the student is funded due to the quality of training. For composition, as an example, that means that certain schools tend to get their grads into direct entry doctoral programs with funding through the masters and the doctorate.If you looked at the money saved via a funded master’s and spread it out over 4 years of undergrad, that would be the highest level of debt that would be defensible. (That said, I think composers tend to do doctorates more than instrumentalists.)
This is similar thinking to what we did in high school. We have limited funds so we paid for conservatory prep and more expensive lessons in later high school with the idea that this expense would pay itself back in undergrad aid.
I personally don’t think any artist should start off their working life with debt. So all in all, the state school sounds like the best choice along with summer festivals and so on. Just wanted to put in that small caveat.
Good for him! My D made a similar choice and it worked out well for her for both grad school and professional pathways. Who knows what opportunities might have opened up had she chosen the more expensive options, but she’s happy with her journey so far.
@cellomom2 you are so right! I was surprised at the resumes of the teachers at D’s chosen school. With that said, I discovered some universities are more concerned about the number of doctoral degrees their teachers have so they hire inexperienced teachers with a doctorate over amazing teachers with valuable orchestral/music experience but only a masters. Parents and students need to research the teacher and their former students.
I did exactly what @glassharmonica suggests. I looked up working musicians and where they went to school. I also researched current students and grads of the teacher… I am more than pleased with the grad schools attended and post grad jobs of D’s debt free choice. Based on my findings, there’s no reason to believe D won’t be able to get into the school she passed up as well as all the schools she never applied to with hard work. Most professionals I spoke with through the process all said they wished they didn’t have debt. Still passing up a top teacher, one D absolutely loved was extremely difficult.
Yay for no debt!
Side issue:
I don’t think musicians with doctorates are inexperienced teachers, necessarily. They are TA’s for several years and then when they are ABD, they spend a year or two teaching as a professor. And most have considerable experience in music, of course, often traveling to perform, attend residencies and so on.
In many creative fields including music and dance, some are staying in school as long as they can because academia provides a sort of umbrella of funding (however modest) and also allows for innovation. This does mean, however, that working dancers and instrumentalists and artists who are not similarly degreed, may lose out and so do their students at times 
Agreed-- DMA is a degree that many highly experienced performers get for various reasons: so they can be hired by a non-conservatory college; to prolong their student visa in the US until they can find full-time work that will make them eligible for a green card, etc., among other reason. But I do agree that credentialism is a bit pointless in music performance education (and other arts educations). Some of the finest performer may not even have an undergrad degree, let alone an advanced degree, because their early careers made those degrees unnecessary. An opportunity to learn from them might be the perfect thing.
@compmom and @glassharmonica Sadly, D’s mentor is one who is affected by schools only hiring Dma’s. Mentor is a very talented musician for a well known orchestra and works as an adjunct professor at a well respected state university. About ten years ago mentor was going to get a DMA at a top conservatory. The prof told mentor to save the money since already a performing musician and teacher. Now mentor keeps getting passed over for full time positions at current school and other schools by teachers with nowhere near the same experience (no matter how many years as a TA, teaching, performing or traveling as a student). I’ve read the resumes of the profs that were hired instead and hands down, can’t compete with the experience and ability of d’s Mentor. This is not an isolated case. I’ll take talent, and real world experience over a doctorate any day. With that said, my D will probably get a DMA based on the advice of mentor.
I really hate to see this in the arts. People who have danced their whole lives and didn’t even get a bachelor’s used to be an asset in teaching.
That said, it is never too late. Doctorates are funded. Maybe the mentor could go for it!
The experience of my kid is that the doctoral journey is so wonderful. An island of wonderfulness in life before marketplace pressures. So it is hard to criticize that particular way to stay funded.
I just read that in our area, employers are having trouble finding workers and are no longer requiring a bachelor’s for some jobs. Degree inflation starts there and just continues right up the ladder!
Sorry for the tangent!
@sunnysar That’s really a shame!
@sunnysar That’s really a shame! [for some reason this comment seems to have posted twice!]