too much debt?

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>I've posted before asking for help guiding my step brother (a piano performance major) with his college search.</p>

<p>We've made major progress, and are days away from this happening. But he has two offers to weigh. I'd appreciate any input you can give.</p>

<p>Offer A is from a well-respected conservatory that is part of a small, private, liberal arts college. </p>

<p>They clearly want him. They have offered $25k of music merit grants, plus a $5k fellowship that will require 10-20hr of work (as an ensemble accompanist). After subtracting need-based aid (pell grants and other state grants), his unmet portion of the basic tuition/fees/room & board will be only $4k per year. But the aid package includes Stafford and Perkins loans to the tune of $7900 per year. ($32,000 over four years.)</p>

<p>Offer B is from a regional (public) state university. The music program is good at this school, but the reputation, caliber of the faculty, opportunities for ensemble work, etc. cannot compare to school A.</p>

<p>This school offered him $2k a year of music merit, which isn't much, but given how inexpensive this school is, means his unmet need per year will be similar to option A. His aid package includes 10 hours of work study (probably not music work - office work or dish washing is a possibility) and $5500 per year of Stafford loans. ($22,000 over four years).</p>

<p>This school is a less intense environment, so his work study job may be supplemented (or replaced) with other part-time work. (School A officials have warned him to not expect to have time for additional work beyond his accompanying fellowship.)</p>

<p>His family finances are very modest. He is in effect an independent student with no college savings. </p>

<p>I'm inclined to advise him to jump at the generous offer from school A, and to take on the heavier debt load. If the loans were a little less, or if he were majoring in something like engineering or business, I would have no reservations... but with the unpredictable employment future of a music major, I am wondering if it the $33k debt load is too much.</p>

<p>Thoughts?</p>

2

<p>These situations are always hard. You made no mention about the teachers at either school and how your step brother gets along with them. I don’t think the caliber of the school is as important as the one on one relationship between professor and student. Without that information I am inclined to say go to the school that results in less debt. Most music students are looking at a masters degree and it is best to save up the “debt” for those years. Good luck with your decision.</p>

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<p>For piano the teacher is paramount. You do not have to worry about the level of ensembles or reputation of the school. Good teacher, less debt. Which had the better teacher for him? That is a scary amount for undergrad when grad school may be looming, too.</p>

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<p>I hope your step-brother knows how wonderful you are! Good for you for trying to help him so much; you are an inspiration.</p>

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<p>I’m a little confused. You said unmet portion of tuition / fees, etc for school A is only $4000. You do know that one doesn’t have to accept all the loans they offer? No need to take $8k in loans, if you only need $4k.</p>

6

<p>Sorry for the confusion.</p>

<p>By “unmet need” I mean the portion of his tuition/fees + room/board that is not covered by the financial aid package.</p>

<p>So basically, for either school, he would have to accept the full financial aid offer (all loans, grants, and work study/fellowships), plus come up with at least $4k more (per year).</p>

<p>Then for School A, he would be left with 32,000 of debt after 4 years.
For School B, he would be left with 22,000 of debt.</p>

<p>Regarding the quality of the schools/piano teachers…He has had extensive contact (a studio visit and many phone calls) with one of the piano faculty members at School A. School B has been a more passive, although the faculty he played for at his audition were very complementary toward his talents. And although their merit offer was modest, it was the highest they typically offer.</p>

<p>School A is probably a top 10-15 music school in the country. School B is probably the third or fourth best music school in the state. So there is very much a difference in the quality of the facilities, quality of the musicianship, etc.</p>

<p>Thanks so much for your help. And sorry to be secretive. I don’t feel comfortable sharing names at this time, but I will share more (in the school visits, audition info, acceptances, and aid threads) once this is all settled. </p>

<p>Cheers.</p>

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<p>I don’t see that this takes a lot of thought. The difference is 10K for 4 years, while the difference in schools and teachers seems tremendous. If all is as you say…School A.</p>

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<p>What are the opportunities like for him to take paying gigs at each school? If the conservatory provides opportunities for students to earn some money by playing or by teaching a few private students and the State U does not, then he may be able to earn more than the difference in cost each year. If he can get a couple of regular students and one or two decent paying gigs per month, he may be able to make some of the loans unnecessary.</p>

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<p>I assume you examined every single assumption in each school’s Cost of Attendance to see whether it truly reflected likely costs such as transportation, room & board, etc.? Also, what are their assumptions regarding summer earnings? IOW, are you truly comparing apples to apples numbers? </p>

<p>Also, could your step-brother earn the $4K gap between now and the start of school?</p>

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<p>Great questions everyone.</p>

<p>Both schools are in smaller towns. There is some chance of paying gigs, but I don’t think we can count on it being a huge thing. He’s not going to be in NYC or Chicago or something. But I do expect him to take on students and make some cash for spending money. </p>

<p>CCsiteObsessed: yes, by my math he can earn the annual $4k gap by working (really hard) during the summer breaks, and also by working as much as he can part-time while in school. (that will probably be harder at School A, because of the fellowship time commitment.)</p>

<p>I’m not as worried about meeting the gap. We’ll take that one year, or one semester at a time, and figure it out. It’s the overall debt load that has me (and him) worried and looking for reassurance.</p>

<p>Thank you all.</p>

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<p>22K borrowed at 6% paid over ten years is $244 per month. 32K borrowed at 6% paid over ten years is $355 per month. It’s not great, but it’ not outrageous. Can you examine the budget and see if there’s any way the family can contribute a little bit more, to ease the debt load?</p>

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<p>I agree with all points made. The common wisdom is not to exceed the aggregate of your Stafford limit as an undergrad, which without looking it up is somewhere near the midpoint of the numbers you’ve quoted. A similar discussion (but with a much wider spread) from last year <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/899510-all-because.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/899510-all-because.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>BTW - I really wish they would not be allowed to call loans aid. Also consider that for work study it is sometimes hard to make what they say is part of the package. There are stories here on CC about kids having a hard time making their work study amounts. Unless there is a guarantee, the work study may not come out as much as they estimate. Be sure to check. </p>

<p>Also, if they are already calculating work study, then working part time in addition to that is not really feasible. He will be practicing a phenomenal number of hours if he is going to maintain conservatory level playing. It also may be more than you anticipate for the loans and his contribution. Check the numbers they use for COA and see if they are reasonable for his situation. Check transportation and incidentals particularly. I am concerned that if he is stretched with loans and work study and the $4000 in addition, there is no room for error or happenstance. He may end up with even more loans to stay.</p>

<p>He should try to get a lesson with School B to see if the teacher is a good fit. He should be pursuing it, not them. It is not a good comparison if there has been no lesson at B. It does not matter what tier the school is on if the teacher is good. He is not paying in ensembles that need quality players around him…</p>

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<p>Working the right part-time job in lieu of some of those work-study hours can be very profitable, though. A regular church gig at city rates could pay a student something like $100 - $150 per week for a few hours (perhaps as much as an hour of that spent actually playing or singing) on Sunday morning and one midweek evening rehearsal if the ensemble schedule permits. A single wedding gig involving a couple of hours (perhaps only 15-30 minutes of that spent playing or singing) on a Saturday can pay even more than that. That beats the heck out of $7 per hour working in the cafeteria.</p>

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<p>I understand not wanting to take on loan load, and maybe, just maybe, if choice B left him with little or no debt it would be the better option, but given the difference in debt levels is about 10k, it sounds like A is the better option to me. Yeah, 32k is debt is not a small number, but look at it this way, 32k is in the range of a midsize car like a toyota camry or a minivan these days, it isn’t like 100,000 or more…not saying it isn’t a lot, it is, just saying it isn’t impossible a load to bear either.</p>

<p>One thing I haven’t seen suggested, if school A really seems to want him, has he tried contacting the school to see if they can swing any more straight aid or merit aid? From reading CC over the years people appeal aid decisions all the time, and it seems worth the effort to do so. If the student has contact with a particular teacher, if they really seemed to want to have him, then maybe talk to the professor, explain that you would love to go to A, but given finances that you may have to take another option because of financial reasons, that coming out with 32k of debt is too much. The worse they could do is say no, and is worth the shot IMO. I would tell them about B’s offer, that it comes out to 2500/year or 10k for 4 years, keep it nebulous and see what happens, who knows, might end up reducing the debt portion to less then it would be at the state U…</p>

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<p>Thank you all for your feedback.</p>

<p>Before continuing, I want to answer one question that was asked of me a few times. We have contacted both schools already to ask for an increase in grant aid. School A was incredibly responsive. I believe they have already gone as far as they can.</p>

<p>I had a long talk last night with my step brother. He is strongly leaning toward School A. I expect he will accept their offer today or tomorrow.</p>

<p>Based on his interactions with the teachers and his visits at both schools, he’s convinced that School A is a significantly better place for him, and worth the extra cost.</p>

<p>Earning/saving money for the $4k gap each year, plus extra spending money will be difficult, but he seems ready to do whatever it takes. He understands that he will have to live like a monk while in college to keep his expenses down. (Late night food = ramen noodles, not pizza. Clothes from the second hand shop, not The Gap., etc. ) He will have to work like mad during the summer months, and also over the long winter break. And he will always be looking for part-time work (teaching, church and wedding gigs, temp office work, etc.) that he can do during school. It may not be ideal to have to work while in school, but it beats the alternative of not attending at all.</p>

<p>It has been a long and difficult process to get to this point. As some of you know who followed my earlier posts, my step brother graduated from high school in 2010. He was accepted at the an elite public music school all the way back in December 2009. But the financial aid package was not where it needed to be to make it possible to attend</p>

<p>He is the youngest of four brothers, of a blue-collar working-class family. He will be the first to go to college.</p>

<p>This place has been an incredible help to me during this process. I have not posted much, but I have read and re-read countless threads, and corresponded privately with some of you.</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

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<p>Congratulations to him. He has all the markings of a successful musician - the talent, the persistence, the faith…</p>

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<p>Just so you know, this kind of lifestyle can be a very good prep for the lifestyle of a musician. So don’t go in thinking it will just be for four years! There are a few blessed ones who make it big early, but most live like this for at least awhile.</p>