Tales from the transfer front

<p>We all hope for the right college choice and a fabulous first year experience for our kids. Unfortunately, it doesn’t always happen. Here’s our story, about my daughter’s less-than-totally-successful first year of college. But the moral of the story is that if a high school senior doesn’t make an ideal college choice, it’s not a disaster or an embarrassment. A wrong first choice can be a good growth experience. And there’s a good solution, i.e., transfer.</p>

<p>Some of you know that my daughter is finishing up her freshman year at Colgate. She is a classic BWRK: a well-adjusted, well-liked kid who had very fine high school grades, very fine test scores, and a solid but in no way earth-shaking roster of extra-curriculars. As a high school junior/senior, she went through the motions of doing her research and making her college visits, but she never engaged fully in the college search process. (It was a source of great frustration to me, and I sure wish I had discovered CC earlier.) She really could not pinpoint exactly what she wanted from a school, let alone precisely where she wanted to go. She wound up applying to nine schools, ranging from large to medium to small. As of last April (2004), she had been accepted by four, waitlisted by four, and rejected by one. True to form, at the end of the process she was not any more in love with any one school than she had been at the beginning, so she decided not to stay on any waitlists. She chose Colgate, and we supported her decision both because it's a fine school and because we believed that the LAC experience would be terrific for her. We were also sure that, because of the kind of kid she is, she’d be happy wherever she landed. </p>

<p>From the start, however, she was “just OK.” There were certainly good parts. She was doing well academically. As expected, her profs at Colgate were uniformly excellent – inspiring and committed to teaching undergrads. Her advisor is a prince. She was also getting involved in a few activities and quickly made a small circle of friends. She was not miserable, but she never expressed the sort of joy many parents on these boards report hearing from their kids. The enthusiasm was just not there, although from 600 miles away, we couldn’t quite figure out why. We just thought the transition was taking a little longer than anticipated. Still, when she came home at Christmas and told me she had been concealing her unhappiness, “toughing it out” in the belief (unrealized) that things would get better, and that she was strongly considering a transfer, I was only mildly surprised.</p>

<p>Here is the most important thing we’ve learned about LACs. Every LAC (and probably every small university, too) has a dominant social culture, a dominant intellectual culture, and a dominant academic culture, and there is significant overlap among the three. If a kid is thinking about attending an LAC, he or she MUST understand the culture there. We learned the hard way that it’s tough to accomplish that during an admitted students event – too much courting, too much camouflage, too many bells and whistles, dogs and ponies. Although it can be financially and logistically difficult, I think it’s vital for a student to do an overnight at an “ordinary” time – NOT during an event that has been carefully choreographed to woo admitted but not yet committed students. (Interestingly, in the fall of her senior year, my daughter had briefly considered applying ED to a different LAC. She did an overnight there and nearly decided not to apply at all, let alone apply early. Turns out the culture at Colgate is quite similar to the culture at that school.)</p>

<p>And once a kid understands the school’s prevailing culture, he or she needs to decide whether it fits. If the fit is there, great. If the fit is not perfect, that can be OK too -- for some kids. There are a number of kids who are outside the mainstream at Colgate and are quite content. It is a large enough school to accommodate clusters of happy non-conformists. My daughter, however, now understands fully what she already knew intuitively about herself: She is most comfortable when she is part of the mainstream. She is not in the mainstream at Colgate. So although for many kids it’s a wonderful match, for her it is not. </p>

<p>Here’s what else we learned. Making a wrong decision when you are 18 is not the end of the world. My daughter matured this year. Once she decided it would be best to try to transfer (and I thought it was a brave decision) she found it remarkably easy to pinpoint what she needed from a school. It helps that she now knows her major, so she focused on schools that have strong art history departments (thanks to Momrath’s great posts we learned what to look for in an art history program), schools that have the kind of culture she’s looking for, and schools that are at least reasonably transfer-friendly (i.e., they accept a decent percentage of transfer applicants, have some housing for transfers, and accept many transfer credits). She applied to four schools, all mid-sized, all near or in cities. Ironically, three are schools she applied to last year (two waitlists, one acceptance). I read and commented on essays and proofread applications (man, I did NOT expect to be doing THAT two years in a row!!) but she quarterbacked the process this time. (I’m nice, but not a masochist.) She got everything done on time – no cattle prod required. </p>

<p>Even the transfer application process itself was not too bad. Some of the schools that waitlisted or accepted her as a senior simplify the process to some extent for transfers; certain materials did not need to be resubmitted, and one school even waived the application fee! (I must add, however, that transfer admissions offices seem to lose/misplace a lot of stuff. Some are downright disorganized. I guess that because they’re dealing with smaller numbers of applicants, their internal machinery is not well streamlined. My daughter has spent lots of quality time on the phone with admissions people.) </p>

<p>And thanks to what I learned from many of you on CC and passed on to my D, writing the essays and cover letters was not that difficult for her. From Soozievt, Jamimom, InterestedDad, Garland, and so many other posters, we learned that she needed to dig deep into her schools’ websites to learn as much as she could about their art history departments and about their campuses, to articulate very specifically why she would like to attend each one, and to show why would be an asset to each campus. My feeling is that unless a kid can coherently do those things, he or she should NOT be trying to transfer. My “penpal” and friend Searchingavalon even read her main essay, which was on how she discovered her love for art history. I am so grateful for all the knowledge and generosity on this board, and I hope to pay it forward by helping others who find themselves in a situation similar to ours.</p>

<p>So far she has heard back from two schools – accepted at Wash U and at Tufts (waitlisted at both last year). She is so happy – more excited than when the answers started rolling in last year. She knows that the transition as a transfer will be somewhat scary, but she is ready. </p>

<p>So...That’s our story in a nutshell. Meanwhile, I’d love to hear from parents with kids at Wash U (Lizschup?) and Tufts. I’d especially like to hear from any art history majors or minors out there.</p>

<p>At our visit to Tufts, we met a student who had just transferred from Union. She had been miserable at Union (said it was a drinking school only - don't know if that is similar to Colgate's culture) and was thrilled beyond belief at Tufts.</p>

<p>Wjb, THANK YOU for sharing your daughter's journey. There are so many lessons in that story! I hope that not only students looking to transfer but also students (and parents) still in the "trenches" or just going off to college will take the varied lessons to heart. This is truly one of the BEST posts I've ever seen on College Confidential. Thank you again.</p>

<p>Carolyn: Thank you! You are one of the wise and generous CC posters from whom I have learned so much.</p>

<p>wjb- I really enjoyed your story, even tho it is not relevant to me (at least no yet ;)). I am interested to learn more about the three cultures - an excellent way of understanding a school, it seems to me. Can you talk about this more - maybe how you and D understand the cultures at Colgate? or describe the continuum of cultures one might find? I think it would be very helpful so that juniors and others can look at schools a little more specifically in this way.
Thanks.</p>

<p>I knew someone would ask that question, jmmmom. ;) I will answer it, but not till after I've had some time to think. I want to measure my response carefully, because I don't want to disparage Colgate.</p>

<p>Jmmom, Don't know if this is what you are thinking of, but some time ago I started a thread about a continuum of college cultures that I have found useful in evaluating different schools. Some folks didn't like the terms I used (masculine and feminine) but a lot of very useful information and insights into various colleges came out of that thread. here's the link:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=24971&highlight=masculine%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=24971&highlight=masculine&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>wjb: Thank you for sharing your D's story. You have provided excellent insights into searching for a "home", whether you're 18 or 98. The lessons learned navigating from one decision to the next are so very valuable. And she has an early start! Best wishes to your D at her next stop on the journey.</p>

<p>What a wonderful post! As an advocate for LACs whose son goes to a school that advocates LACs, it is good to see another side to the story. There was another parent with an excellent transfer story--from Dickinson to UMD, I believe, and Garland's D went the opposite way, from big state U to LAC where she found her match. Such lessons to learn from this. </p>

<p>I want to congratulate both you and your D for going through this process so calmly and efficiently. It could not have been fun doing the second year of apps, and you two handled it like pros. My oldest son was not engaged either in his college app process, and I have always felt that if we had done it again the next year, he would have been able to do it right, as I was the driving force for him. He was not happy where he ended up by his choice, but could not get up the energy to transfer, just enough to complain. So I truly admire your daughter's ability to marshall her forces and get the transfer done.</p>

<p>You message about being cognizant of, and comfortable with, the culture of the school is excellent.</p>

<p>This is exactly why "strongest philosophy dept" is not enough of a reason to choose a given school.</p>

<p>I have got to agree with the OP's overall message. I am currently wrapping up my freshman year of college and I will also be transferring next year. Last summer, I did not expect in a million years that I would want to transfer. I also applied to a range of schools--30,000 students to 1700 students, east coast, west coast, huge cities, isolated towns. I spent so much time researching schools, but looking back, I don't think I clearly knew what I wanted out of college. It wasn't until I finally spent a couple months at college that I understood what I wanted my college experience to be like. For the many people who can define their needs while they are still in high school, that is great. But I think it is hard to have a sense of what college is truly like and what you need from your college experience until you actually live it.</p>

<p>wjb:Good luck to your daughter!</p>

<p>Thanks, everyone, for your comments. You know, Jamimom, I still think the right LAC would have been a wonderful choice for my D. (And as I said, for many of the classic reasons LACs are good places, Colgate WAS good for her. For starters, her writing skills improved exponentially over the course of this year. That helped with essay writing.) I suggested a few LACs this time around, especially some women’s schools that have noted art history departments, but she didn’t want to take the risk. As for going through the process twice, although it was not a lot of fun, the element of terror you face in high school is absent when you’re already at a good college. She chose no safeties: she said if she didn’t get any acceptances from among the schools she really liked, she’d stay where she was. And to her credit, she set the tone of composure and efficiency. She’s always been an excellent stress manager. Plenty of other schtick, but she’s the kind of kid who puts one foot in front of the other and gets the job done. I really admire that quality in her.</p>

<p>EEH: Great post. Your journey and my daughter's have been remarkably similar. I wish you a wonderful experience next year.</p>

<p>Second carolyn's kudos. What a great post wjb. The restraint in your voice speaks volumes. </p>

<p>After going to two elite "mini-LACs" for middle/high school, my S wanted big and he wanted that big school in a city he could fall back on-- in case the school culture failed to inspire him.</p>

<p>Mind you, I'd describe him as basically happy and satisfied. The year was worth the $45k, IOHO, but he isn't living a "dream life" at a "dream school" (There have been calls to ban this term and I know why!:) ) </p>

<p>He's had plenty of ups and downs. We've been on the roller coaster with him but he will matriculate as a sophomore. He did manage to pull out a halfway decent GPA and he has matured, emotionally and intellectually. </p>

<p>maybe our expectations are lower than most?</p>

<p>Thanks for the comment, Cheers. I appreciate your candor. I think your expectations for your son are realistic, not low. Many of the parents on CC have kids who seem to be completely happy at their chosen colleges, and that is wonderful, but I'm not sure it's the norm. As my daughter's story unfolded this year, I wondered what we did "wrong" in not shepherding her through the college selection process more effectively. But I kept coming back to the realization that NO school is perfect: They are, after all, attended and run by humans, who are imperfect! ;) I think the rollercoaster ride your son has experienced is probably far more common than the smooth road. I even think there is value in hitting some bumps. So long as you can describe your child as growing, and as "basically happy and satisfied," you're ahead of the game. Unfortunately, that description did not apply to my daughter. And if your basically well-adjusted, level-headed kid makes the tough decision that she needs to make a change, all you can do is support her.</p>

<p>wjb,
That was a fantastic post, with heartfelt advice. I'm so impressed with the maturity shown by your daughter! </p>

<p>It is comforting in some ways to hear the reactions to schools in a more realistic light than often found on CC. While there are a handful of students who did not find their "fit", it does seem that the majority on CC are in love with their perfect school (both before applying or after attending). I think it may also be probable that those who are not necessarily in love with their choice, may not write about their experiences, both because they do not want to misrepresent the school, but also because it might be painful to do so. Thank you for your candor.</p>

<p>I too would be most interested in better ways to discover a school's culture. We'll be in the middle of the process for the second time next year, having gone through it two years ago for my son. Although we had visited many schools, I don't think we ever truly discovered how to discern the culture very well. Information sessions and tours all started to "look and sound the same" after awhile. CC, has been a wonderful resource to try to differentiate the differences, especially when overnights and extended trips are just not possible. </p>

<p>I think my son is happy with his choice, but I cannot claim that he is "in love" with the school. We thought he would love college, the deeper thought found in classes; the greater freedom; the camaraderie within a dorm; etc. Soon after starting, his reaction was that college was "just like highschool". While he does seem generally happy, and there are no plans for a transfer, I also do not believe college fully met his expectations (probably inflated by us). As you've said, no school is perfect. I'm anxious to hear his thoughts when he comes home this summer (in a week!!!).</p>

<p>I'm also curious about the financial aid dilemma for transfer students. My assumption is that merit aid is probably not even offered, as colleges have no incentive at this point. Without getting too personal, did your daughter find that merit aid was even a possibility? For those students who do find they want to make a switch after the first year, my guess is that those who need merit aid will be much more limited in their choices.</p>

<p>wjb--so glad to hear your D's happy ending!!!!!!!!!!!</p>

<p>As you and others have mentioned, we went through a similar process (in fact your entire story, from how she felt, to what she learned about herself and life, could have been written by our family). </p>

<p>I'm so certain things will be better for her; it was a whole new world for my D! Congrats again!!!!</p>

<p>(this is why I'll never succeed in weaning myself off CC :p This news was too good not to acknowledge!)</p>

<p>wjb,
Your post was so helpful & insightful in many ways, with many lessons for all of us on adjustment, resilience, & (absolutely) maturity--as you mentioned. Your comments are universally applicable: even a "dream" acceptance & enrollment can take a surprising turn. </p>

<p>Tufts is great, esp. for art history & classics. Was on my D's list (she's interested in both, so we always investigate the courses & majors at schools of interest). She would have left Tufts on the list as a match school were it not for the reach acceptances. I did a lot of looking into art history curricula; she also has particular requirements and inclinations, and believe me, we ended up with a "short list" of colleges which we agreed met her needs. Tufts was on that short list.</p>

<p>With the kind of supportive & informative parent you are, your D will do great with her transfer efforts. Congratulations on that well-earned acceptance.</p>

<p>Great post, wjb. There is much to be learned by experiences like this, both by families in the initial application process and also those who have kids who are already in or who will start college this fall. It's a valuable lesson to learn that decisions aren't always final, and, despite whatever amount of extensive research is done, are not always the RIGHT ones! :) We had a similar experience with a niece a few years ago. We were 'surrogate' parents in the college process due to her own parents being overseas, among other issues. As we did with our own Ds, together with her, we researched, visited, narrowed lists, interviewed, etc. She ended up applying early to her top choice which, by all appearances, was the <em>perfect</em> fit for her, or as near to perfect as anyone can get. </p>

<p>She was thrilled to be accepted and looked forward to attending with great anticipation. When the time came, she moved to campus and all appeared to be well. She was familiar with the campus, with the particular city, so we all had great hopes for a wonderful year. Well, sometimes things do not go as planned. Within six weeks, it was clear that she was not happy, for a variety of reasons. After much discussion, and travelling back and forth, she, along with us, made the decision to come home. It was a difficult decision for everyone involved, and, at the time, I wasn't sure it was the right one. I would have preferred that she had waited until at least Christmas.</p>

<p>The rest of the year was spent with her working at a job she found the week after returning home. She applied to another equally selective school for the following September (a very similar school, by the way), and was accepted. She has been tremendously successful there and so very happy. She's more mature, enjoys her classes, is very involved in college e/c's and community service. Looking back now, it was absolutely the right decision for her to leave the first school when she did. This would not be the right decision for every student but it certainly was for her. I guess the point I'm making is that there are no hard and fast rules in this crazy game :) and if a student is not happy where they are, there are so many other options available to them. Things don't always work out as planned, no matter how thorough a job is done to find the right 'fit'. Just don't freak out and think it's the end of the world when it does happen! </p>

<p>wjb, I wish your D all the same success and happiness which my niece has experienced in her change of schools!</p>

<p>wjb thanks so much for posting this story. I'm very impressed at the way your daughter and you have handled this whole situation. I especially think it's remarkable how you/she have been able to see that while it may not be the best fit for your d, that the school isn't necessarily to 'blame.' She just understands that she would prefer a different atmosphere. I'm sure her next choice will be a much happier one due to her thoughtfulness!
andi</p>

<p>Older S is graduating from Tufts in 2 weeks! He mostly loved the experience, even though he believes that he is well outside the mainstream. It took him some time to find friends and classes with which he felt comfortable. He hated the department of his initial major and had to switch. He now feels that he may not have made the best choices in applying to colleges, but I pointed out to him that he is also a different person now who couldn't have had this perspective in high school. Interestingly,most of his closest college friends are transfer students.
Perhaps the moral of the story is that college is an opportunity to explore options and begin to define your adult life. As that definition changes, so will the student's needs. A decision to transfer can be a reflection of this maturation process and not necessarily even a remedy for a mistake.</p>