Talk to me about Early Decision

Parents Forum
101

I don’t think it’s elitist to calculate that your family will pay X for college A but only Y for college B. The price /value ration of certain institutions is way out of wack in my opinion. (YMMV). So that suggests getting as much data on the table as possible before making a decision. Maybe one family would pay full freight for Georgetown but is not prepared to do that for Providence college or Fairfield… and would need to see the merit situation before being able to compare apples to oranges. Frankly, I don’t think Hofstra is as good a value as Harvard, even though if you are not eligible for need based aid, they may both cost within 10K of each other.

But I think this discussion is moot for the OP’s situation. Applying ED means NO comparison. Just eyeballing ONE offer and deciding “yes we can swing this” or “no this is impossible”. There won’t be any other data on the table when the decision gets made.

102

@younghoss I only think that the school being number one first and foremost matters here because the OP has already said that they will try to make the finances work, and there is also “family money” that can help.

Otherwise, I agree that the net price calculator would need to be in my ballpark for ED to be considered. Note…ballpark, as the OP seems to have some leeway in terms of how much they are willing to pay.

In the OP, the poster wondered if better financial aid would be a possibility if the kid applies ED. I don’t think that is necessarily true…unless it is a school like Carnegie Mellon that meets full need for ED applicants but not RD applicants.

103

Keep in mind that the family money paid for your D’s college will have to go on the FAFSA/CSS profile as monies paid on your behalf by others, thus possibly increasing your EFC (and reducing your need based) aid the following year.

I think that you need to plan for college using a 4 year financial outlook.

However, if the trust is flush enough that no matter what changes in your financial aid package happens, it is all good then never mind.

104

I don’t think anyone is suggesting for a student to apply to a school that’s clearly not affordable, but what’s a “strong feeling a school is not affordable” ? Is it 5k over EFC or is it 20K over? I think any responsible parent is not going to encourage the student to apply to a “wishful thinking” school, but sometimes things just do not go according to plan, and it it ok to go to plan B or C. No one will die over no going to a particular school and no school will be under enrolled because few EDers decided not to enroll.

105

@blossom >>Why not take the time and energy you are spending figuring out if ED is going to confer an advantage (whether real, imagined, or hypothetical) vis a vis admissions and finances, and get the “wisdom of the crowd” here to get you a short list of schools which might be every bit as exciting to your D as dream school?<<

We’ve been looking at schools a long time now and I did consider doing that. I have been reading through for a while, doing a variety of searches here and elsewhere, etc. But maybe there are schools we haven’t encountered yet that would be a good bet. Here goes:

Daughter has a small list of must-haves (co-ed is one of them, which lets out the schools mentioned upthread) but otherwise there are no real drivers beyond wanting to play her sport and having a great residential college experience. She’s looking for a challenging, small-ish, liberal arts school in a small town within a few hours’ drive that will let her explore academically, travel if possible, and find her future. (As parents we fully endorse this, incidentally. Not a popular stance these days, I know.)

More background: she’s in an academically accelerated magnet program within a public school in a blue-collar town in northern NJ. You’ve seen her scores and grades, not sure if I mentioned she’ll be VP of the senior class and captain of two varsity teams. Hasn’t saved any lives, invented anything or written any symphonies, sadly, so her very first choice of Princeton was out of the question from the get-go. :wink:

The schools she’s visited and loved are Bucknell, Colgate, HWS, Marist, and Skidmore. Schools she’s visited and been meh about are TCNJ, Monmouth, Lehigh, Montclair, Drew, Ramapo. Schools she’s visited and hated include Rutgers, Rider, Rowan, Siena, Lafayette, Ithaca, Seton Hall, and anything urban.

Schools who have looked at her and want her are NJCU, Centenary, Daemen, Georgian Court, Bloomfield, Lesley, and she’s still getting the occasional ping from a coach here and there. I think we’ve reached the end of the recruiting road, though; these are all nonstarters. Of all the schools mentioned above only HWS and Skidmore have given positive feedback with respect to playing.

Still on the radar are Albright, Muhlenberg, Dickinson, and I’m sure others in PA we haven’t found yet. Please feel free to recommend other schools. Thanks!

106

“We think she’d got an excellent chance of admission under any circumstances,”

then there is no reason to ED unless she is 100% completely devoted to the college and wants possible perks like selecting a dorm early or applying for scholarships not offered to RD applicants.

“and I’ve been led to believe that an ED application would improve her FA package.”

That would depend on the college; the reverse, which is what we found, appears to be the opposite in that the college “has you” so if you are accepted, they’ll give you FA but there is “no reason” to give you excellent FA.

The point some have made is that if you have a few offers on the table from RD, you can compare FA and if your top choice offers less FA than another school, ask for more FA with another FA offer in hand (may or may not work, but top choice wouldn’t rescind offer any way…)

I personally like Colgate’s campus, but it is kind of out of the way. Marist from what I understand would not be at the same level as Colgate academically.

Centenary is under the radar for many, and is worth looking into IMHO. I’ve been impressed by my dealings with them. A friend’s son went to Bloomfield and is now a chiropractor. He enjoyed his experience there, which included playing sports for them.

Albright and Muhlenberg I’ve also known people who’ve attended. I would suggest doing a few camps if she is serious about playing sports in college, D2 schools offer athletic scholarships with less pressure than D1. Two excellent soccer players from my son’s team went to Bloomsburg U. of PA with partial athletic scholarships.

I’d only say go ED if:

  • the college is definitely her first choice, or
  • it is a very high choice for her and they do have athletic scholarships and she is promised one (assuming she wants to continue playing)
107

[QUOTE=""]
please look at the common data set, CDS section C at HWS so that you can have a realistic look at the pool of admitted students.

[/QUOTE]

http://www.hws.edu/offices/irp/common_data_set.aspx

you will also find the stats for the admitted students:

43% of the admitted students have a GPA equal to or higher than your daughter’s

59% of the admitted students are presenting SAT scores either = to or higher than your D in critical reading

65% of the admitted students are presenting SAT scores equal to or higher than your D in Math (provided that she scored a minimum of 600 in each section)<<<

The only data even worth considering here IMO is the GPA, and even that is questionable since HWS reports only 79% of admitted students’ GPAs (do they really NOT have GPA for 21% of admitted students? This seems ridiculous to me.)

The schools test score reporting is even less useful IMO - HWS is test-optional, and the CDS indicates that only 31% of admitted students submitted SAT scores (only 5% ACT scores). So the data available in the CDS doesn’t even come close to revealing what the stats of their students actually are. Looking at the data as above misrepresents it in a big way.
(Schools that are test-optional should, at a very minimum, make a real effort to collect complete GPA data; and HWS does not do that. But getting away from the issue here. I just had to comment on the use of this data. I had looked at their data previously and was disappointed…my kids would be legacy there as well…H attended)

So…this student’s chances could be much better than what a cursory look at these stats would indicate…

108

HWS is not test optional for merit $$

If school reports GPA, then OP needs to look at how GPA stacks up against people who submitted GPA. Even at schools that don’t rank or report GPA’s they do for merit consideration.

109

[QUOTE=""]
So....this student's chances could be much better than what a cursory look at these stats would indicate....<<

[/QUOTE]

Yes yes yes. When I went to HWS my GPA was 3.2 at best, but my scores were pretty good (1320 out of 1600). I ranked in the middle third of my class in a very small private school. I had no special achievements, talents or skills beyond being a good writer. And to top it all off, my guidance counselor told me flat out I’d hate it there–I was a city kid and would feel like a fish out of water in upstate prep-town. Yet not only did I get in and love it, they gave me lots of money every year.

All of this is by way of saying that I believe HWS when they say they take each student as a whole person, not just a collection of numbers. I think my D has an excellent chance of admission.

110

College admission has become a lot more competitive. A lot of us, myself included, may not be admitted to our alma mater today.

111

I know that, of course. And my daughter is a more desirable student than I was in many ways. Their principle of looking at the whole student has not necessarily changed even in a more competitive world, though.

112

this!!!

two years ago, my Sal (URM) got waitlisted at HWS who higher had higher stats than Op’s daughter is presenting.

113

OP- what does your HS naviance data show about your D’s chances? At the end of the day, hearing that a kid from Scarsdale or the South Bronx or Andover got into HWS with scores higher or lower than your D is nice to know… Actual data from kids from her HS- who gets in, who gets rejected, were they stronger or weaker than your D- is going to be much more reassuring than the gross data. And you realize they recentered the SAT’s so that comparisons to our day aren’t relevant anymore…

114

About 10% of students admitted via Early Decsion back out of their agreement. The most common reason for this happening is a financial aid offer that the family cannot afford. I don’t agree that you have to be able to pay 100% before appylying ED but you need to be comfortable with what the financial aid office or Net Price Calculator says your costs will be. Since about 40% of students applying to top colleges are admitted via ED programs, I don’t know how you can’t at least consider your child applying ED if you want them to get into a reach college. Yes, I know that the odds aren’t really better that the ED applicant pool is just stronger…

115

@blossom As far as I can tell there is no history of HWS admission from our town. It’s a small blue-collar town whose students are much more likely to go to community college, William Patterson, Rutgers or the like than leave the state. It’s hard for even the athletes to leave: One of my neighbors signed a D1 NLI to run track at a private school in NY but had to back out because of the $$.

Some kids’ sights are set higher, for sure, but there are such a small number of them that no one school attracts enough to have any helpful history.

116

atanvarne,

I sent you a PM

117

We know a bunch of people who needed significant financial aid who applied to schools ED. All but one who was accepted was given enough financial aid to attend. The one who wasn’t punted and went to an RD school. All of this potential drama need not exist. If you have a strong first choice, there is a benefit in applying ED. Just be prepared to walk if you don’t get the aid.

118

OP - Be careful about how you ask your questions at the college. They want ED students that love the school far more than nay other. You don’t want to imply your D is only doing so for better chances at admission and FA.

Normally I say ‘ED - just say No’. Perhaps you can do enough research to give it a shot in this case. But it’s good you are leaning toward caution.

119

Thanks! I’ve now talked with the FA counselor and an admissions staffer as well, and we’re still thinking. I sent the FA office enough information to get an accurate early read on aid, so at least I’ll know what we may be up against should we decide to go ED. I didn’t know that was possible so I’m very relieved. By the time we have to decide we’ll already know to a much greater extent whether HWS is within reach or not.

120

ED “rules” seem to vary with the degree of selectivity for school itself. Yes, a highly-competitive school will expect its ED-accepted students to commit to enroll regardless of FA outcome. However, for “not quite so selective” private colleges, seems ED process is more flexible, with FA packages still negotiable post acceptance offer, and no threats foisted upon waivering parents. My brother and niece nicely increased FA merit package post-ED acceptance at a CTCL college; he also noted that admissions folks at all considered schools were open about specific merit opportunities and likely amounts. For CCTL schools, ED applications get a significant boost on acceptance rates. Most colleges can’t operate on Ivy League terms, and really want to lock-in those desired ED applicants.