I find it offensive to state that a family wanting to compare awards is “looking for the cheapest option”. We discouraged D from applying ED (to a school with a significant bump from ED) because we were concerned about being able to pay what the school determined was a reasonable amount. We didn’t want her to get a bright shiny ED acceptance and have to make an irrevocable decision without any other options to consider. Every other choice in life we’ve made we compared options - what town to live in, what house to buy, what K-12 schools were best. To us it made sense to explore options.
That said, we did NOT choose the “cheapest option”. By taking focus off the “dream school”, D took a closer look at some other schools and found one that ended up being a better fit than the dream school. It was not the cheapest option, but it was not the most expensive either. I’m so proud of what she’s accomplished. It’s impossible to do a double-blind study to determine what really was the best choice, but she is so happy and has had amazing experiences.
It’s easier to do ED if you KNOW finances won’t be a problem. Yes, they do give you the financial out, but for many families it’s hard to say no when their kid gets that dream school acceptance - and that’s how many families end up struggling, by choosing schools that aren’t affordable because they can’t bear to break their kid’s heart. For some of us who have savings and resources - but not to the tune of a quarter million per kid - we’re more comfortable having options. It doesn’t mean we’re short-changing our kids by choosing a school based on only financial criteria.
I think, atanvarne, that everyone here agrees that if after thorough research you feel you will be able to pay the out-of-pocket cost (and have a little wiggle room available) that it is ok to then apply ED. I think no one would object to that. Of course a person cannot count on scholarships that are discretionary.
The difference of opinion as I perceive it, is that some seem to advocate just giving it a try to see what happens, and then reneging and calling it unaffordable if it isn’t satisfactory. To some, that seems to be taking the promise to attend too lightly. The second plan hints at making the promise to attend without thorough research beforehand, and some feel that it’s inappropriate because it’s too reckless financially and/or morally.
This is it in a nutshell; you now have more and more students using ED as a normal part of the application process, when ED was only used by people who felt it was a clear first choice, had done their due diligence and knew what the money situation as going to be .
Some of the challenges that OP is facing are:
S/he looked at their FAFSA EFC of 20k and felt that it was doable. Since the school also uses the net price calculator, when Op looked at that number, it is no longer doable.
Op’s D while a legacy is looking at a school that does not meet 100% demonstrated need
Op’s D is an athlete where the coach wants her to come play JV (No athletic money coming because it is a DIII school)
The school in question is not a “deep pocket, large endowment school”. the money is not flowing freely
The school does not give a lot of big merit awards; they give about 5 full tuition awards. After that their largest award is 25k, which does not cover half of the 62k tuition, room, board and fees
The legacy scholarship is 5k, which goes away if student receives a larger scholarship (no stacking)
Op stated that student has struggled with SATs. what Op currently presents for student does not make student a top contender for the 25k scholarships so the full tuition scholarships are going to be a reach.
However, a large percentage of students who apply ED are accepted (over 81%)
What good is an ED acceptance going to do OP at a school that s/he already knows going in to the process is not going to be a financially feasible option for the family? The time would be much better served letting the family find affordable options and if those affordable options can garner some merit $ all the better.
However, if you can pay without depending on a lot of other if/thens, then by all means, pull the trigger, apply ED and all the best to your daughter.
this is what the school says:
the school accepted over 180 legacies last year
please look at the common data set, CDS section C at HWS so that you can have a realistic look at the pool of admitted students.
you will also find the stats for the admitted students:
43% of the admitted students have a GPA equal to or higher than your daughter’s
59% of the admitted students are presenting SAT scores either = to or higher than your D in critical reading
65% of the admitted students are presenting SAT scores equal to or higher than your D in Math (provided that she scored a minimum of 600 in each section)
She is going to have a lot of competition for those 5 slots. I would not hang my hopes on her getting one. When it is all said and done, it is your kid and your money. If it all works out, we can chop it up and kick the Willy Bobo about how all of this worry was for naught.
thank you Claremont. My posts have mostly addressed what I see as the moral aspect of making a good-faith promise in a bargain. Though in post 81 I tried to summarize how posters here felt.
I think Sybbie has given terrific examples of the money aspect and expectations, particularly in post 82. Really seeing the percentages, seeing the percentile where this student fits, and reminding me of the student’s record really hit home for me from the financial perspective.
Please explain what you are looking for in this ED application…to a school that does not guarantee to meet full need for all accepted students? Are you looking for increased need based financial aid? Are you looking for an admissions tip? Are you looking for an early read on financial aid?
Is this your kid’s number one college choice bar none? Because that is a good reason to apply ED.
One thing to remember…you will receive a financial aid award with your ED acceptance based on the data the school has. BUT you will still need to update the Profile info, and file the FAFSA with completed 2015 tax return information. And yes, it is very possible that your financial,aid award could be adjusted if the figures are not the same from your early Profile to the filed applications once your 2015 taxes are completed.
I don’ think I ever said by looking for the cheapest option meant short changing your kid. I think I said it may not be the driver for everyone. Some family may have a budget per student, as long as the cost is within agreed budget then the student can go where he/she wants to go.
If sybbie’s numbers are accurate glido, this student is in the bottom 40% in reading and the bottom 35% in math based on SAT results, and is in the 57th % of overall gpa, and is not a recruited athlete. However, the Op tells us this school is clearly the student’s first choice.
If there are 5 20k scholarships given out to legacies, and last year 180 legacies were admitted, to make a good-faith promise, one has to ask oneself if this student has something extraordinary to realistically believe she has a good shot at being 1 of the 5 of the 180 this year. (assuming the award is necessary to make the school affordable)
I really didn’t want to take my kid’s specific situation out for a test run, folks. I was trying to be general and not name the school. But hey, it’s the internet and I should know better.
[QUOTE=""]
Is this your kid's number one college choice bar none? Because that is a good reason to apply ED.<<
[/QUOTE]
As of right now yes, it is.
I’m kinda amazed at how quick people are to make decisions based on all this cold data. There are a lot of unknowns still. My kid’s SAT scores will change yet again–she’s at 640 in math now, 560 in CR–and there are recommendations, essays, interviews, and team rosters all to go into the mix. If she is a weak candidate for entry then ED can only help, financial questions aside. We have lots of school-specific research to do that doesn’t come from a spreadsheet.
And if when all is said and done and we absolutely can’t afford it, well, we’ll deal with that when the time comes. As I mentioned somewhere upthread there is family money available too.
atanvarne please realize you have asked for reader’s thoughts on the pros and cons of the student’s possible applying ED. Thumper feels just having it as your first choice is good enough to apply ED. For the rest of us, you have given us numbers and facts to help us evaluate and then asked us to offer opinions. If you provide us with different data and then ask for opinions again, you may get different answers. But please don’t be “amazed” at the answers you are getting now based on the info you have provided so far. We don’t know the unknown either, and can only give you the opinions you asked for based on info you have provided.
As for me, specifically, to answer your question in the very first post, here is what I see as a con, for ANY potential ED candidate: I would not be comfortable signing a paper for me(or my S) saying that I’d promise to go if accepted unless I was confident I could pay the cost, even if I didn’t get as many gifts as I had hoped. If there were many uncertainties like needing loan A,B, or C, in combination with getting scholarship D, E, or F, I’d consider that too risky to make such a promise. If something came up unexpectedly after I signed, such as a death or a job loss-- that’s another story
Why not take the time and energy you are spending figuring out if ED is going to confer an advantage (whether real, imagined, or hypothetical) vis a vis admissions and finances, and get the “wisdom of the crowd” here to get you a short list of schools which might be every bit as exciting to your D as dream school?
I have been on this board more years than I can admit. And there is one prediction that I can make without even thinking about it- there will be heartbroken kids in December and April who discover that the dream has been put on the back-burner due to finances.
Stuff happens. Sure- apply ED if you can swing the most likely scenario- which is some aid, the 5k legacy scholarship, and a big gap which you will have to finance via loans, HELOC, etc. If you’ve got the borrowing power to do that, and want to do that- then great. And then forget about dream college and focus on new dreams between now and December.
There are so many ways where the Dream College method of senior year is suboptimal- the finances being only one of them. What happens if your D is at Dream College and has a bad week next October? Flunks a mid-term? Breaks up with a boy friend?
The focus should be on several exciting, affordable options so that your D’s entire ego isn’t riding on Dream School.
My D’s didn’t need to worry about the financial piece for ED, and yet having a well thought out list of schools was absolutely vital for both of them. You investigate the ED option, yes. And you also should ask the hive mind wisdom of College Confidential for suggestions for other schools for your D’s list.
Naming the specific school here means you can get advice from folks who are knowledgeable about admissions and FA awards at that school. Some are college counselors, some are parents who’ve geeked out on the entire college process, some are parents whose children applied to that very school. Do consider the benefits of being specific.
That sentence does not imply families may be looking for the BEST option, only that if they feel the need for comparison they are looking for the CHEAPEST. That is a rather elitist attitude towards a large number of families/students who, despite there now being an “escape clause”, still don’t feel comfortable making a decision with only partial information and therefore choose to forgo ED, even though it may boost chances of acceptance.
Especially for students who may be eligible for significant merit aid (of course, meaning they’re not targeting Ivies since there’s no merit aid there), it makes sense to evaluate all options. Taking a more affordable option at a “lesser” but still good school may mean, for example, additional funds will be available for graduate education.
I’m with @younghoss - if you think you should be able to afford it, and then the money doesn’t work out, then yes, withdrawing is a perfectly valid option. But if you go into the process with a strong feeling the money won’t work out - well, I would have a hard time signing the agreement KNOWING that there was a good possibility I’d walk away. But that’s me, others’ mileage may vary.
I’m a person who always likes to know the downside going into a situation. I like to calculate my maximum liability and then make a decision. I carry high deductible policies on my house and car- I can afford the small stuff, but I’m insured for a catastrophic loss.
I know people who don’t need that level of granular detail- just a ballpark is fine for them.
OP- you know your own comfort with risk. If there’s a possibility that you’re going to research selling body parts in order to bridge the gap between the aid and what you can afford (JK) the risk is likely not worth it. Apply regular decision and evaluate this college in the context of all the other offers, financial aid packages, etc. If you’re going to be comfortable staring at a number you can’t afford and calling the school to say “we are breaking our ED contract” then it’s not for any of us to judge.
The BEST option is a school that’s affordable and best fit for a student. The only time someone should do ED is if the school is a top choice, and if the school were to make it financially feasible, why wouldn’t it be the best option? You would only want to shop around if you think there maybe cheaper alternatives. Not sure why it is an elitist attitude.
That cannot always be known at the time of ED. The argument here is whether a family who has a strong feeling the money may not be there should apply ED. Many of us think they shouldn’t. In this case, if there is a strong suspicion the money may not be there ED, then the school may not be the best fit and it is probably prudent to explore other options, including the possibility of merit money at other schools.
You are the one who said any family wanting to compare finances was looking for the “cheapest alternative”. That does sound elitist to me, who wanted to compare alternatives to find the BEST fit, not the CHEAPEST fit. Best meaning offers great educational, enrichment, and social opportunities as well as being within budget. That is different than “cheapest”.
I’d love to drive a Lexus, and I could get financing to drive one, but I choose to drive a Toyota. Not the cheapest alternative, but to me the one that met ALL my needs - cost, reliability, gas mileage. I could have bought a cheaper vehicle but I didn’t. I could have gone into debt for a more expensive vehicle but I didn’t.