FWIW, my kid is taking Physics C E&M (after AP Physics 1 last year) while taking Calc AB, and it has been fine. Kid has a great physics teacher who has helped with the calc concepts that haven’t been taught in AB yet, so perhaps we’re lucky.
Taking Physics C and calc concurrently without any prior physics probably isn’t advisable, from what our kid’s teacher has said.
Another unnecessary class - these are the classes where kids “struggle” when advancing in college.
I don’t have a problem with Physics C but taking a required class in summer where it’s rushed and not necessarily as thorough - when the kid can be a kid or get a job - is unnecessary.
Why does a student need to rush through high school.
Physics C or Calc BC is not going to impact admissions to the list of schools presented.
Your son is a very strong student and honestly, I find what he is doing to be refreshing. I would not call him boring. He reads, has an interest in music and badminton, cherishes his family and friends, etc. I actually find how he sees the world by bike to be brilliant.
I think he will be accepted to all of the schools on your list. It isn’t necessary to take these summer classes.
I believe this student is a HS junior. @goldbug you mention 99th%ile for the PSAT. What was his actual junior year PSAT score?
Is it? Is this something that top schools care about? Does the designation matter in any way if there is a high SAT score submitted?
You’ve gotten some excellent advice and reassurance here, but I want to chime in and say your son sounds like a really great kid. Any HS kid who does the NYT puzzles daily, reads for pleasure, explores the nearby city’s neighborhoods with friends and dreams about train travel will come across as pretty unique in these days of over-curated ECs. My guess is that his essays will shine and show this uniqueness.
I wouldn’t bother with summer calculus AB, I think it will not be impactful in any way to his applications and his time could be spent doing other things. He has enough rigor, don’t fall into the trap of one more AP must be better than what he already has done.
I think it’s not too early to think about which of his teachers can write recs with respect to his character. Excellent recs which show who he is as a person will also help broaden and deepen his application. This seems to be important to many of the SLACs.
I also agree that a job is a great idea (my daughter’s HS jobs have given her more maturity and people skills than any other EC she’s done, plus it’s helped her understand the value of her own money).
Your list is good, I might add in Kenyon, Denison, Oberlin, Grinnell, Carleton and Colorado College (last 3 are indeed reachy but full pay, demonstrated intellectual curiosity and being male will help).
Your kid sounds great – just make sure his essays convey that (whether about coveting his friend’s cat or compulsive crossword solving!) Schools like authenticity and kids who know – and are – themselves.
Your list is nicely crafted. I agree with everyone else that he is likely to have choices when decisions come out.
And I agree that this kid, who is already occupying his time in a way he likes, has no reason to do anything academic to pad the resume. If he wants to do something more, add my voice to the chorus suggesting a real (mundane) job. There are a million things he can get out of that, and colleges know it.
As always, good for you for doing the research to avoid “if only we knew” regrets down the road. And no need to worry, you’ve done everything right!
Depends on the family. Many might see free or close to no matter the list - and Tulsa shares some aspects of the list and it’s be totally free.
Don’t know about this family or if it would impact.
Many might not be aware of the $$ avail if achieved NMSF/NMF. And upon becoming aware one could save $300k it may…or may not…impact a thought process.
By the way, here is a link to the prior list discussion the OP referenced:
I by no means think that conversation should be seen as definitely concluded, but there was information in that discussion I think provides some relevant context. In particular, this particular part stood out to me:
Again, this is definitely not ruling out colleges like Carleton eventually making the list, but I would personally suggest not letting the tail wag the dog here. Meaning just because the OP’s kid might have a good shot at getting admitted to Carleton–which I agree is true–doesn’t mean that the OP’s kid should actually want to go to Carleton.
Tell him to stop looking at CollegeVine. It’s not helpful/accurate.
How does he want to spend next summer? No need to take Calc AB as others have said…having Calc BC vs AB in senior year is unlikely to be a difference maker at any schools on the list.
Is he interested at the schools on the list so far? I know you were going to visit some, has he seen any yet? Definitely take him to medium and larger schools to compare, especially if he isn’t sold on LACs. If you are the one doing all the research on schools, that is telling you something.
While not an AO, I think your list looks very realistic and that in the end, you will have some nice choices.
My advice is to write a kick-a## essay and hopefully have great LORs that really show who your kid is. The first “gate” of admissions is stats and his are good. After that, they want to know who you are. For some kids, that’s their ECs. I think that after reading so many applications and matching them up with essays, AOs can tell when a kid does ECs because they are committed to them or if they are doing ECs as application filler. Because your son doesn’t have a bunch of ECs to tell the AO who he is, make sure who he is really comes through in his essay. Sounds like he’s a good friend, a good person and a good son that likes to give himself time to think and explore. Don’t discount what that could mean to an AO. Especially at a smaller LAC where they want students who are open to finding new aspects of themselves. He sounds like a great fit for most of many of his targets.
Remember, CC is a self-selected group and you are also in an area where there is an unhealthy obsession with college admissions. It sounds like you a caught up in the “what ifs” of him not getting in somewhere. As you are full pay and don’t need to hit any FA benchmarks, all you need is one “yes” and I’d be shocked if he didn’t get into at least 3 schools on your list (I don’t want to say which ones) and has a decent to high probability of getting into any/all of them.
@parentologist the math thing was confusing to me too. When I was in high school you took precalc junior year (or earlier if you were unusually advanced, but most kids weren’t) and then senior year you chose either AB or BC calculus. I think I could probably have counted on one hand the number of kids in my grade who were more advanced in math (and most of them left and went to the state STEM boarding school). At my son’s high school, a bunch of kids who took “double compacted” math in middle school take algebra II as freshmen, precalc sophomore year, and then either AB jr year/BC sr year or (maybe more typically) a summer calculus course between sophomore and junior year, BC calculus junior year, and multivariable calculus +/- AP statistics senior year. They don’t let students opt into BC Calc without either having taken AB or the summer program.
I’m okay with my son taking the summer bridge math course because he expressed an interest in doing so without our involvement. I think several friends are doing it too.
He doesn’t know what he wants to study. He’s gotten better grades in STEM subjects because he doesn’t like to write or do literary analysis – but he’s interested in history, languages, travel, maps, potentially psychology, potentially geology, maybe something like physics or engineering but that’s looking less likely. (one of the things I love about Wooster is the opportunity to do a 3+2 program with WUSTL or Case Western Reserve.)
He did do a French immersion program last summer where he lived with a host family and went to classes every day. It helped his French, but not nearly as much as a full year program would have done. He’s talking about doing a gap year as an exchange student in Belgium or Germany – I’m bullish on the idea for a lot of reasons but I have a hunch that if he applies to college as a senior and gets in somewhere that excites him, he might have a tough time deferring.
Re: Bates/Carleton sorts of schools…this is a dilemma for us. I personally think it’s a long shot, given what I’ve seen in Naviance and read around here. If he falls hard for a school like Kenyon, Lafayette, or Macalester, he might want to do early decision there for peace of mind – I don’t think any of those would be a slam dunk for him (would be happy to be wrong). I’m also mindful of the fact that he’s picked a middle path thus far, and there’s wisdom in not pushing him into a place where he’s surrounded by people who have vastly more evolved study skills/senses of ambition. (I speak from personal experience here – Princeton AB and Stanford MBA. In both places I felt like an imposter.) That said, we’ll visit Carleton in February, along with Macalester and St Olaf. If there’s a discernible difference and he’s excited about trying for it, we won’t stop him.
@NiceUnparticularMan raises a valid point – our kid is good at test taking, less good at some other things, and my goal is that any school to which he’d apply should be a place where we think he could learn and grow from contact with his peers.
@MMRose we did explore the idea of both Canadian schools and St. Andrews/University of Edinburgh in Scotland. Two things give me pause: a) the need (in Scotland anyway) to commit to a course of study sooner and b) the level of executive function/independence expected (my kiddo has ADHD with all that this would imply.)
99th percentile as a sophomore. Jr year he studied for PSAT, got a perfect score on the practice test the night before the exam and feels good about how it went. We’ll get his scores next week. I think NMSF is possible for him – we’ll see.
The math thing was his idea and I think some friends are doing it as well. I like him taking initiative, academic or otherwise, and I think he wants to be in class with his friends senior year so I’m loath to stop him. But I don’t think it’s a whole-summer kind of course and I think a local job will dovetail nicely with it. There’s a chance he might also help me work on a local campaign.
Good to know CollegeVine isn’t accurate. It told us his ECs were “below average” for schools on his list.
I did preliminary research on schools to determine where we should visit and he’s starting to get into it. I think after next week’s visit to Rhodes this will all feel a bit more real. He grew up visiting Princeton, Stanford, and Duke campuses and is anchored to the look-and-feel (though not necessarily the size) of Princeton and Duke in particular. The U Chicago mailings caught his eye – they have the same offbeat/quirky sense of humor. But the acceptance rate makes them an extreme reach. So part of my job right now is to right-size his expectations vis-a-vis his actual choices/daily inclinations and help him discover places that are equally wonderful and more attainable.
Three things:
You already have Bates level schools on your list. ED Bates would be a gimme and if you like Bates it’s wonderful but I’m not sure what it gets you vs any other. If you’re saying it’s better - that’s relative to the individual bit I wouldn’t say it’s better on paper. Maybe it’s be better for the student.
If engineering is possible, a 3-2, for most is not the way to go. One more year of expense. One less year of earning. Plus - you have to adapt socially going somewhere three years in and leaving your existing crew b4 graduation. And frankly WUSTL or CWRU don’r stand tall in most engineering disciplines vs others. They’re great but given the field, the where matters little short of a few schools. My son turned down a great name for Alabama. He works with kids from that great nana and CWRU. Same salary etc. it’s ABET that matters in most disciplines. He was WL at WUSTL and didn’t come off but said b4 the decision he would have chosen Bama. He didn’t visit Bama til after he applied.
There are LACs with engineering - Swat, W&L, Union (ABET), Lafayette (ABET), Trinity (ABET), Bucknell (ABET) and more. So four year experiences.
Good luck.
I think there are a bunch of places which would absolutely fall in love with your kid just as he is.
Don’t know if you’ve kicked the tires on Muhlenberg, Beloit, Holy Cross, Wheaton?
If he likes the quirkiness of Chicago (but for sure it’s a reach- and it is very intense, so if he’s still finding his way re: study skills it doesn’t sound like an optimal environment for him) what about Skidmore, Vassar, Brandeis?
I personally don’t think your son would feel like an imposter at Carleton. I say that both because he sounds like a great student who doesn’t mind rigor (of which there’s plenty there) and because it doesn’t strike me as an overtly competitive school. Being ~2 miles from St Olaf, it might be worth a look if heading to Northfield anyway.
To respond to your original question, it’s very possible more ECs might help provided that they are things your son actually wants to do. The good news is that he has some time. Perhaps over the upcoming winter break it might make sense to ask him to fill out an application to somewhere for practice purposes, just so he can get a better sense of what it will be like to write about himself in this manner next fall. The exercise might spark a line of self-inquiry that could lead to clearer ideas about how to spend the time between now and his actual application window, especially over the summer.
Most of the suggestions people have made were on our longer list and as we visit places I’m sure the short list will evolve. Lafayette is on our list. We will look at Lehigh while we’re in PA and it might jump back on the list. Beloit on paper looked a little too small (I know – it’s not THAT much smaller than the others). We will likely check out Wheaton/Holy Cross/Brandeis when we visit Clark. Swat is going to be way too intense and probably out of reach. I have a niece at Trinity who thinks it’s not a fit for our son. (In her words: “It’s also a very intense party school. The majority of the social scene revolves on drinking and going out to the frats on weekends.”) She wishes she’d made a different choice. I think Bucknell sounds culturally similar to Trinity so backed away from it. (W&L too – traditional/preppy/frat-heavy schools are going to be pretty foreign to my lovely dorky child who barely owns long pants and brings his Magic cards with him everywhere he goes.)
Re: NMF, I’ll look into it. Thanks, everyone!
My two cents is the vibe at Carleton seems friendly and collaborative but still somewhat academically intense/ambitious. It is just who the kids are, and it seems kinda similar to me to colleges like Yale in that sense. Not quite a Chicago vibe but a fun-loving notch down. I’ll be interested to see how it compares to Swarthmore, which we are visiting soon.
Anyway, I think that could be great for some kids, suboptimal for others. A visit should help a lot. Things like where to ED, EDII, and so on, if anywhere, can be sorted out once you know the actual list and preference order.
Edit: Oh, and Vassar does keep coming to my mind as a reachy school that might be a great fit.
re: filling out an application over winter break – yes, that’s a great idea. I think we’re going to ask him to start brainstorming essay prompts too.