Talkin' 'bout my Generation,

Parents Forum
1

<p>To parents,</p>

<p>how would you compare your generation with our generation (09) in,</p>

<p>1) course of study (complexity of courses)
2) Time spent studying v being alive
3) Breadth of knowledge
4) Awareness of the world
5) cultural and multi-cultural awareness
6) political activism (utopian v cynical)
7) Religious/philosophical belief (depth or lack of)
8) Depth (smart v wise)</p>

<p>It's something I always wonder about, how is my gen a different person than your gen? Are we slowly changing and redefining what it is to be a person?</p>

2

<p>Class of 1986 here. I think answers will vary with the individual, course of study, vocation, etc. I studied some, hung-out watching MTV as much as I could (I guess that was "being alive" in 1986), and did some political demonstrations, though I don't think I was anywhere near as idealistic as my parent's generation was with Vietnam. Looking back, I can't really claim I was particularly deep or philosophical about anything.</p>

3

<p>Class of '69 here.</p>

<p>Academic
I think kids today study harder in school (or at least have more homework) and take more demanding courses. As a result they are more academically sophisticated in some areas. Although occasionally I'm surprised by what is lacking today - e.g. my little high school in rural Oregon offered a course in Shakespeare, but my daughters' big city California high school does not.</p>

<p>Social/Political
We came of age during the civil rights movement and Viet Nam war. Consequently I think kids were more aware of and concerned about social injustice and world politics than what we see today. "Liberal" was not yet a slanderous insult that craven politicians flung at each other - it was still regarded as a legitimate and respected approach to life.</p>

<p>Cultural
It was a simpler time. I think kids read more books then. There were fewer time sinks. We had TV, radio, movies, and record players for popular entertainment - no internet, no computer games, no IM, no computers at all - in fact there weren't even calculators, no cell phones, no text messaging, no ipods.</p>

<p>I don't long to go back to those days. I love all the information that Google puts at my fingertips. I'm certainly not happy about getting older, but on the other hand, I'm glad I was shaped by the times I grew up in. I'm glad I grew up in the era of The Beatles, The Beach Boys, and Muhammad Ali rather than the era of Goths, Hip Hop, and Kobe Bryant.</p>

4

<p>from the early '70s -- you kids have it MUCH, MUCH harder these days with regards to 1-3. Sure, there were prep school kids that had a rigorous curriculum, but those were few and far between. At our supposedly-good HS, College Prep courses were considered the pinnacle of success. Our 4th yr HS math class would be called AlgII-trig now. I didn't even hear of AP until spring Q at the Big U. LOL </p>

<p>The only thing we beat you on is political activism ('Nam, and civil rights era). In the main, I'd also suggest that we likely had more street savvy (#8), but wouldn't suggest anyone was any smarter.</p>

5

<p>So much of the answer to this depends on where you were and what you were doing. I went to an academically-elite private school (all-girls) outside Phila (class of 72), and we took way more demanding courses than anything I see offered around here (Seattle suburbs) including AP classes. Lots more writing--we were expected to write and turn in a free essay, poem, or short story (topic of our choice) of at least one page EVERY day; I routinely (4 or 5 times/year) wrote 5-10 page papers for history, French, and science, as well as many many papers for English. I took AP Calculus my senior year. I took the education I got for granted until my husband told me he'd NEVER read any Shakespeare--class of '76 in a public school in the northern NJ suburbs. But the education he got there was still superior to what was offered to my kids (class of '03 and '04) here in public schools in the Seattle suburbs, where they are expected to write at most two or three papers over three pages a year. (This is one reason my kids went to private schools for high school.) I would say both my husband and I spent about the same time at school and doing homework as our kids, though. </p>

<p>Breadth of knowledge: I think that esp. in biology kids are expected to know more sooner. This is mostly due to the explosion of knowledge in biology. In history and literature, the addition of Asian history and literature to the standard curriculum has expanded those fields. Some schools also teach middle-eastern history/lit and African history/lit as well. </p>

<p>Awareness of the world at large: the internet has made instant communication possible; CNN has opened up the entire world to the instant news cycle. Everyone now has access to a much larger portion of a much smaller world. When I was in school, I had no awareness of the world outside the east coast and Europe--I read the NYTimes, too, while most students read no newspaper--while now Google News (my home page) covers the world. This has led to a greater awareness of other cultures (including the east/west/middle divide in this country), but not a great increase in sympathy for those other cultures.</p>

<p>The 60s and early 70s were a time of enormous strife and activism because of two grea (and related) movements: the Civil Rights movement, and the anti-Vietnam War movement. The military was integrated by the time of Vietnam, and the iniquities of the draft (college students being allowed out, mostly) meant that Vietnam was fought disproportionately by blacks--which is one of the many injustices that spawned protests. It was a difficult time.</p>

<p>Religion--and esp. evangelical religions--have made an enormous comeback since the 60s. But remember that, too, the Catholic Church had Vatican II in the early 60s (63?) and so there was strife and protest there as well.</p>

<p>There seems to me to be a lot more money around these days, at least in the middle-to-upper classes. My family was one of the first to have more than one car (and the second car was 11 years old and had holes in the floor)--in our very well-to-do Phila suburb--and now families in that area have one car for each adult and one for each child, too. My father took the train to work every day--it was full of men going to work in the city--and now those trains are half-empty and run less frequently too. </p>

<p>You didn't ask about the rise of feminism in the 60s and 70s, but I will mention that feminism changed my world. I remember arguing with friends of my parents about my plans to be a doctor (which I dropped after my first encounter with live-animal dissection/surgery); "girls should be nurses, not doctors." "Why?" Because medicine is too difficult for women." (I had the same argument with many members of MIT student body, as well. Lately, I've been wondering if any of those arguments were with Larry Summers.)</p>

6

<p>HS class of '78 here:
I lived in a very liberal neighborhood and attended a public "free school" inside a traditional high school. Students negotiated credits w/ advisors, and could teach classes, take classes in the community, do indep.study, or take classes led by advisors. I spent much of my time hanging out, playing music, learning card games like bridge. I did no homework, except in my "traditional" classes, and wrote only one (lousy) paper in my entire high-school career. It was a lot of fun, and I did learn a lot by just being alive. I remember organizing square dances, attending rallies for Cesar Chavez and the grape-boycott, freezing my butt off in an unheated garage for a student-taught "auto mechanics" course, wearing Missing-in-Action bracelets for Vietnam Vets, discussing women's rights, chatting with my advisors about life, drugs, progress, camping with my "home-group". The "free-School" came to an end a few years after I graduated, as the time of open-walled student-centered education lost favor. (Funnily enough, "schools within a school" is making a come-back now, and our local high-schools are converting to this next year!)
I hung out with very cynical, nihlistic types. Dope was openly smoked by many students in Jr. High and High School while walking home from school. There was not much thought for future careers - we didn't plan to be adults and didn't trust those over 30, and we weren't concerned about material wealth. Clothing attire was thrift-store finds, painter's pants, overall and T-shirts, tie-dye, ponchos, peace signs, bell-bottoms. Whole-wheat bread was newly discovered and yogurt was just becoming popular. The summer of choice for my Jewish friends was visit to an Israel Kibbutz, and one friend visited the "Farm" commune; the rest of us rode our bikes and worked. (Absolutely NO summer activities designed to package oneself for college acceptance.) College decisions were made very casually; without the rankings posted for the whole world to see, the only "ooo's and ahhhs" were for Harvard. It brings me back just thinking about it!</p>

7

<p>Doris Lessing gave an interview on the BBC. She said she thought the 60's generation in the UK/EU were wild and crazy because they were raised by parents who had been damaged by the horrors of WWII. Her view is that history ignores the emotional damage of war.</p>

<p>She thinks the current generation of UK/EU kids is much saner because they have been raised by an undamaged group of parents.</p>

<p>Interesting thought. On the personal side: </p>

<p>My Ss are better athletes than I ever was. They are better outdoorsmen. They have had better educations. They are better travellers. They have lived abroad so they naturally understand the concept of multi-culture. They are better friends than I was at the same age. </p>

<p>I was a more independent thinker and doer in high school. They seem more independent in college. </p>

<p>The level of 'experimentation' seems about the same--although mine was much earlier. </p>

<p>The level of drive and ambition seems about the same. The level of intellectual potential is similar ( a blessing).</p>

<p>The level of spirituality and basic morality seems the same, the level of religious association seems similar.</p>

<p>Overall, I think this generation is moving toward greater tolerance. The global culture is shrinking. </p>

<p>Overall, this generation of American teenagers is slightly smug. They've been raised in two of the most prosperous decades in the history of mankind. They don't understand that the rest of the world hasn't enjoyed that prosperity.</p>

8

<p>The Dean and the President of Swarthmore were asked this question during a parents' orientation session.</p>

<p>They both agreed on the number one difference between their generation (60's and 70's) and todays college students:</p>

<p>The alienation from and rejection of parents' and cultural traditions is no longer commonplace. Today's students are much closer to their parents and much more eager to participate in the "system".</p>

9

<p>Wellll, we've got some different generations on this board. Unlike our kids who were born mostly 1980 -1990, I think we parents were born anywhere from the early 1950's until the 1970's. Coureur, for instance, was 17 (if I did the math right) when momofour was born. We're from all over the united states, and even outside of the states, rural and city. So when we say, "my generation", just who's reality are we talking about?</p>

<p>I, like most 17 year olds knew everything when I graduated in 1975!</p>

10

<p>Probably one of the most intriguing questions I’ve come across.</p>

<p>The posts above mine were all thoughtful and interesting; I can only add anything to theirs through my rough enthusiasm for your question. </p>

<ol>
<li> As far as normal high schools go, I think the curriculum is far more varied than the school I went to—maybe too varied which addresses your 8th question.</li>
<li> Again, time studying, in the case of my children, seems to cut right across the opportunity to learn from the world around them. Now, it seems, academics is everything.</li>
<li> If by breadth you mean variety, I think the variety is far greater now, but I wonder how well prepared the minds of teenagers are to handle and assimilate this cornucopia of information.</li>
<li> Far more aware and determined by world affairs/cultures</li>
<li><p>see 4</p></li>
<li><p>Far less, this may be a good thing. Solzenitsyn (in "A DAy in the Life of I. D.") said it is hard for a man who is warm to sympathize with a man who is cold. Kids attending the kind of schools you kids are attending are very unlikely ever to have experienced the “cold” in Solzenitsyn’s sense. Because of this I believe political activism these days is far more likely to be culturally-apolitical (aids, gay rights/marriage, the right to party, lol) than directly political.</p></li>
<li><p>Religion seems to be (amongst the students on cc) at best a spiritual longing. What’s worse is that spiritual longing has morphed into something of a commodity you wish to possess rather than a discipline you hope to attain and immerse yourselves in: instant gratification! Rumi, a 13th cent Persian poet said of this: “Are you a spiritual window-shopper; do you go from store to store grabbing, touching, holding but never purchasing anything to call your own. Buy something, just to be involved in the eternal passing on of a precious thing from one person to another; do something crazy, like Noah, and don’t care what anyone else thinks.”</p></li>
<li><p>Depth is where I think you generation is most lacking—tons of information, less wisdom (“phenomenal cosmic powers; itty-bitty living space”); although, I believe this is largely the result of the rush of technology and the cocooning of parents driving their children towards mastering academic and professional programs, rather than a subtle and patient appreciation of the grandeur of nature and life in an Emersonian/Thoreauvian sense.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>1) course of study (complexity of courses)
2) Time spent studying v being alive
3) Breadth of knowledge
4) Awareness of the world
5) cultural and multi-cultural awareness
6) political activism (utopian v cynical)
7) Religious/philosophical belief (depth or lack of)
8) Depth (smart v wise)</p>

12

<p>I am class of 1979 HS.</p>

<p>1) course of study (complexity of courses)</p>

<p>I think many of my humanities courses were more rigorous than my D's in terms of output, papers, etc. however, there is material now being covered in the sciences & math that is more advanced than what I got in HS.</p>

<p>2) Time spent studying v being alive</p>

<p>I would rephrase this question to include "programmed time" in early childhood, too. I think I was a lot less programmed than my kids are now. I had entire summers at my disposal with little supervised activity. Kids didn't do a rotation of three sports leagues starting in 1st grade back then. I always had a job during HS (on top of ECs) and I don't think my D has time for a job.</p>

<p>3) Breadth of knowledge</p>

<p>Same</p>

<p>4) Awareness of the world</p>

<p>Same-- could be better now via internet?</p>

<p>5) cultural and multi-cultural awareness</p>

<p>Better now because there is more diversity in media, teaching, & other educational facets of our society</p>

<p>6) political activism (utopian v cynical)</p>

<p>More cynical now. Also there's a terrible failure of the news media to elucidate fine points and to "call" politicians on important issues. Propoganda is posing as news. </p>

<p>7) Religious/philosophical belief (depth or lack of)</p>

<p>Not sure, but I think about the same as ever.</p>

<p>8) Depth (smart v wise)</p>

<p>Probably the same; wisdom comes with time. (Maybe we were more "street smart" because of fending for ourselves more and having more unstructured time & more chores & such.)</p>

<p>A big change in society is the prevalence of divorce. I often wonder what it is doing to kids fundamental ideas about love, security and permanence to see so much divorce everywhere. When my aunt divorced in about 1970 or so, it was shocking, unheard of. Now, 50%+ of my kids' friends are from divorced families.</p>

<p>Don't get me wrong, I realize that in 1970 there were all the other problems growing up in families unhappily welded together who would have been much better off divorced... There were certainly other sorts of fall out for those kids, & I am not casting aspersions on divorced people. </p>

<p>Just mentioning a major demographic shift. On Thanksgiving, my 7 year old wrote a thing on what he was thankful for, and one item was "my parents are not divorst." Seemed sad a little tyke would have this in his mind...</p>

13

<p>My life and my children's lives are like apples and oranges on all these counts. This has not been due to deliberate intent. I had a wonderful childhood and adolescent experience. Theirs is just different. I graduated in 1974...</p>

<p>I should say that I speak only for the experience of my kids, which is not that of a typical American teenager, by any means..</p>

<ol>
<li>course of study- They attend(ed) a rigorous high school with extraordinary course offerings across academic domains- they are required to work(by virtue of their course selection) at great depth in all domains, they same was required of me only in English composition and history- they have a superior technical background in math /science compared with my own preparation. They also have taken classes in economics, music theory, technical theater, electronic music, philosophy- which have enriched them greatly.</li>
<li>Time spent studying- HS was easy for me, and study hall was required (boarding school). I read a lot. HS is not hard for them and they study a lot, but never much past 10 pm. They are efficient and use their time well at school and at home. They have plenty of time to "live." They also read a lot!</li>
<li>Breadth of knowledge- Hands down their's is superior, in all things except cultural aspects of American life (we live overseas)..</li>
<li>Awareness of the world- I lived in suburban Boston and I read Atlantic Monthly and such as a HS student and a newspaper every day. They live the world, I read about it.</li>
<li>Cultural awareness- They can navigate their way through virtually all of Asia and Europe(and even Australia!) aware of cultural nuances and variations which you can only gain by living with and really knowing people from all over. I had roommates from South America and Mexico and had an inkling of these things, but they are confident, multilingual and in fact multicultural. </li>
<li>Politics- I was idealistic, they are much more pragmatic. They are not as liberal as I was, or am, in fact, in many ways. They are more problem than idea oriented in this regard. </li>
<li>Religion- I had the typical suburban upbringing of my parents' religious affilitation. My children have a much richer exposure, a much more family based experience of their own religion and much less "conventially" articulated beliefs. Hard to explain.</li>
<li>Depth- Not sure what this means-- my kids are sophisticated, articulate, engaged and brave in ways I never was, and never will be. They also have more things than I did, higher expectations for themselves in terms of earnings than I did (or do). I had no time wasters like TV available- I loved watching sports, but that was about it. </li>
</ol>

<p>Things that I love about their lives: tremendous awareness and sensitivity to what makes us all the same and different; great passion for varied interests already well established; courage to try and fail; active thinkers, always engaged; extremely strong ties to parents and family; openness to new ideas and possibilities; sense that they can make a difference</p>

<p>Things that make me cringe: overintrusion of technology based entertainment (though both teens would choose good conversation over X-box any day); lack of sense that "all will be well" ( in spite of growing up in tumultuous times, life was less anxiety producing); lack of strong tether to their passport country (a complication of our lives, but not irreversible); "competition"</p>

<p>In short, I could never have lived their life (I am not sure it really existed 30 years ago) and they could be living aspects of mine (but primarily the aspects I am happy to have left behind).</p>

14

<p>Oh, I agree R. I never had earnings 'expectations'....I never knew I'd be financially successful. Aimed for 'enough', honestly.</p>

<p>Currently telling the S. Rattner story to S2 who thinks about journalism but doesn't want to be poor. Perhaps they lose those expectations as they matriculate into jobs and society?</p>

15

<p>Cheers, I think in part their sense of a need for financial well being is tied to a life lived among people with such limited options, and people with such lofty assets both-- which might any of us want? Having said that, it is also related to "future worry"-angst about what is out of their control (based upon a life too replete with such events, in truth). Like you, I just assumed all would be fine (though my life experiences had reasons to suggest otherwise)-but mostly based upon my sense of self and a sense of predictability of how the world worked. I mean, if I study hard enough, became a doctor all would be right, right? For my kids, the broader world impacts and they don't have a sense that all will be right with it!</p>

16

<p>Interesting...my boys do have a sense that "she'll come right''--as they say down under. Part and parcel of their laid back personalities?</p>

17

<p>I think that my 2(including one who defines laid back) are plenty optimistic, in the sense that they know they will weather whatever comes their way, but not in the sense that they think all will be "right"...a more northerly version of the same thought? </p>

<p>We have not had a single year here in the last 7 when the word "evacuation" has not been mentioned or acted on...it changes one's perspective all that they have been through...</p>

18

<p>Agree with Bluebayou on 1 to 3. D had much more demanding coursework. Never even heard of APs in the late 60's! On the other hand, the voting age changed so that D voted in the last presidential election! It was great to see voting registration drives at her campus. There is just no comparison in terms of nurturing and passing down of knowledge since my parents are immigrants.</p>

19

<p>Thanks for responding,</p>

<p>The differing takes are real interesting.</p>

<p>Anxiousmom,
great story!</p>

<p>Robyrm,
What a life...are you considering adoption?</p>

<p>SBmom,
divorce IS the worst dis-ease a kid has to endure! Glad you mentioned it.</p>

<p>interesteddad,
"participate with the system" sounds right, but is that bad?</p>

<p>Cheers,
"raised by an undamaged group of parents." interesting, although opposite of SBmom's opinion, in a way.</p>

<p>Woodwork,
Liked the Rumi qoute (btw, I believe you have a daughter who is a sufi at dartmouth, no?)</p>

<p>dmd77,
are you saying that west-coast schools are less intense than NJ (NE) schools?</p>

<p>Couer,
"Liberal" was not yet a slanderous insult that craven politicians flung at each other - it was still regarded as a legitimate and respected approach to life."
So should we blame your generation for the deterioration of a once noble and respected concept? lol</p>

<p>bluebayou,
my dad says the same thing; however, it didn't get him to lighten-up on my grades.</p>

20

<p>HS grad - 1971</p>

<p>1) course of study - HS was typical "honors" track - no APs - for additional challenge, we had to take classes at the local community college or graduate early (which I did)
2) Time spent studying v being alive - Being ALIVE! No contest.
3) Breadth of knowledge - We knew more about the draft, more about the effect of nuclear weapons (though some of us [W] never learned how to pronounce the word - "Noo-Klee-er" NOT Nuke-you-ler - this is right at the top of the list of egregious grammatical sins - know all that you risk permanent negative judgement for this lapse and possibly forfeit your place in heaven), more about Zen Buddhism, more about drugs, and more about the distillation of politicial posturing into simple, coherent premises (e.g. "Up against the wall!")
4) Awareness of the world - not as many details, but a big surge in awareness starting in the mid-late 60s - Worshiped Native American and other tribal cultures for their historical guidance related to 'back to the land' movements, thought the Indians, the Japanese, and the Chinese had advanced religions, appreciated the native 'herbs' of the Amazon, etc. etc.
5) cultural and multi-cultural awareness - whoops, thought that was #4 - flashback to rockin' the gange, I suppose
6) political activism (utopian v cynical) - U-tope-ee-an, no question about it!
7) Religious/philosophical belief (depth or lack of) - "Feed your head" Eastern religions, enlightenment culture a major theme of the urge for freedom, freedom, freedom from dead crystallizes structures
8) Depth (smart v wise) - Clued in, I would say - and I think that most of us still are the ones who first notice that (perhaps no longer shouting it out in public, to protect our status, thus our kids heritage, thus our survival, etc. - that's what is meant by the common dictum that people becoming 'more conservative with age' - the conservation is personal and familial, not necessarily poltitical) the Emperor Has No Clothes. Because of our generation's rebellion against the robotic 50s - sofas "covered in plastic to keep them neat and clean" (Little Shop) "Your brain is a company brain" (How to Succeed) - we still have a very strong ******** detector, even if some of us lay low. Now as for the turncoats, we will deal with them outside the Parent Cafe.</p>