<p>I would not pay OOS for Penn State if I lived in CT. Academically very close and I would go with basketball. :)</p>
<p>I don’t think it is as much that the upper northeastern state universities are duds as much as (as has been mentioned before) that there are SO many other choices in the northeast. I think there are lots of reasons to pick UConn or even VT or NH. I am NOT advocating a mass exodus to Penn State. My family members (not my kids) have had relatively good experiences at PSU, but it is not perfect by any means.</p>
<p>Thanks for all of the in depth thoughtful replies to my simple question which obviously is a hotly debated subject in NJ. We are looking at other schools in the NE as well. It is tough to find one that has BOTH great Communications and Music, that is the reason we are considering the larger Universities. BU also has these two majors AND will give merit aid OOS.</p>
<p>Don’t count on too much merit aid from BU. My daughter got a fair amount of merit money (Music Major- basically recruited) and it was STILL really expensive. (she chose another school)</p>
<p>If you prefer a smaller school in the NE, Susquehanna is strong in both and Ithaca is strong in communications. Among larger schools Syracuse is strong in communicaitons.</p>
<p>As a NJ resident, this thread is really timely. I will chime in that both schools have a reputation as suitcase schools - with NJ being so small, lots of students head back home on the weekends.</p>
<p>I would really appreciate any feedback or facts to support the statements that OOS merit aid can bring OOS tuition closer to instate levels ($25k or so). I’m in the process of researching a number of OOS publics and best as I can tell, the pickings are pretty thin as far as OOS public merit aid</p>
<p>psufan, from current students at both RU and TCNJ, I think the suitcase effect is present, but not overwhelming and includes kids who, when RU does not have a home game, go watch their HS team play.</p>
<p>I have heard much worse about Monmouth, Montclair, Rowan, Ramapo and Rider.</p>
<p>I believe a careful search can unearth more merit aid OOS at privates than at publics. For example, a 3.3 student can find many good small schools which will offer merit aid in substantially larger amounts than RU or PSU. Obviously, some people will trade small classes for big time football, but for the rest, it is often a very good route</p>
<p>As a NJ native, it is really interesting to me to see the difference in attitude towards state schools there vs. almost anywhere else. I think that part of the reason is the geographic compactness. It’s normal to want to “go away” but when the state takes 4 hours to drive from the most distant points, it doesn’t feel like any of the colleges are “far enough.” Add to the fact that most people want to GET OUT of NJ and that just exacerbates the situation. People in the South love their state schools; the flags are a flying every Saturday :)</p>
<p>The state flagship here can be as far as 5+ hours from some areas in TN. Our closest state college is almost an hour away. </p>
<p>Add the high cost of expense of tuition (my nephew is living at home and his COA at Rutgers is more than tuition, room & board here) and it just adds to that feeling of being “trapped” in NJ. </p>
<p>Rutgers is more highly regarded OOS than in; I can attest to that. If we were still in NJ, I would have encouraged my D to apply to both TCNJ and Rutgers but I would have pushed TCNJ since we lived 5 minutes from Rutgers.</p>
<p>In fairness, I will say I hear mixed comments about the suitcase effect, but having attended the TCNJ Junior Day last spring, I can tell you campus was pretty quiet. </p>
<p>Yeah, I understand PSU (unless you’re in the Schreyer Honors Program) offers pretty much nothing, other than a $38k COA for OOS… Maybe I should broaden the search to include privates but S has indicated he would prefer a larger environment.</p>
<p>Barrons is right about VA Tech. It is much easier to get into OOS than Penn State, UConn, UDel, UMD, UVA and UNC, while closer than the deep south. It offers big time sports, a very pretty campus and a big frat scene, plus reasonable OOS tuition. James Madison is also popular.</p>
<p>I think Rob D identifies some of the main factors at work: NJ is a rather small state, so kids wish to spread their wings will go elsewhere. </p>
<p>State football teams play a much larger role in other states: although Rutgers has a longer football history than any of them, it has very seldom been good and the other NJ schools play D3 football. More importantly, NJ has had nearby pro sports much longer than any Southern state, so the state teams do not monopolize attention.</p>
<p>Southern states are also much more insular and/or provincial than NJ; what Rob describes as a drive to “GET OUT” of NJ is a combination of those with negative feelings about about their hometowns and those with a desire to explore the outside world, in part because they lack the “Us vs. Them” mentality which is much more common in the South, as well as the more entrenched elites surrounding Southern flagship universities and even the “right” frats at those schools.</p>
<p>I don’t see as much of an “Us v. Them” mentality in the South, unless you are referring to rivalries such as TN/AL or AL/GA etc. It’s more of a complete puzzlement why anyone would want to go to some other state’s university (or maybe one that is close by but still in SEC) when their own is so wonderful. They just don’t get it. When I tell people my son graduated from Penn they allow as to how it has a good football coach, but why did I want to pay out of state tuition? If you are “really smart” you might want to look at Vanderbilt, Sewanee or Rhodes. People from AL have a real dilemma because of the UA v. Auburn choice. It is really quite different than anything I ever experienced up north, but it isn’t “Us v. Them”.</p>
<p>^^^See, and we’re in TN but D opted to go to UA. Most people assumed it was because UA’s football team was ranked #1 last year and UT, well, let’s say the whole Lane Kiffin debacle soured some folks on their program (people in the NE, I expect you have no idea what I’m saying Anyway, there’s really not that same feeling here with the kids about wanting to “get out.” I was in NJ for a graduation in June, and the frustration among the kids who were going to CC or Rutgers was palpable. </p>
<p>Our neighborhood is full of transplants so on any given Saturday you can see Ohio State, LSU, Ole Miss, Georgia, Alabama and Kentucky flags flying on our cul-de-sac. Interestingly enough, no UT…so really not an us vs. them mentality.</p>
<p>With respect for your many posts with which I am in complete agreement, and rather than divert the thread with our respective thoughts on southern attitudes towards northerners, the role of the federal government or the progress made since the 1960’s, I think we can just agree to disagree.</p>
<p>I actually agree that there might be an “attitude” towards northerners (including my own, to some extent, and I grew up in the northeast) and a northerner “attitude” towards sourtherns. However, I don’t think that is what drives the love for the state universities down here.</p>
<p>I guess what I was trying to say is that there isn’t all the handringing in other places when students are faced with in-state choices similar to TCNJ & Rutgers. Statistically, they are both schools where students can get a good education especially if they take advantage of all the opportunities available to them. My friends who graduated from Rutgers in the 80’s are now physicians, tenured professors at universities, high ranking environmental agency officials, teachers, etc. And my friends who graduated from Trenton State (now TCNJ) are fully employed in IT, education, and the entertainment industry.</p>
<p>I suspect kids going to CC often feel frustrated all over the country, given how often it is a sign of financial straits or other issues, as well as missing out on the football games, fun, etc of college life.</p>
<p>Going to Rutgers evokes some similar feelings, as, especially in this economy, that also often reflects an economic decision. In NJ, where so many kids have hopes for top 50 schools, or thoughts of trying out city life in Boston, NY , etc or checking out life in the sunshine, the Rockies, California, etc, it can be a bitter pill to swallow.</p>
<p>Which part of TN are you in? Other than Memphis (because of FedX, International Paper, etc) hiring in outsiders, my experience with subsidiaries in 3 TN cities was that there were not a lot of transplants. Even in Memphis, our corporate transplants often felt they could not quite break into the community.</p>
<p>Of course, transplants like Lane Kiffin you don’t need, although until recently, Bruce Pearl seemed to be an institution in the making.</p>
<p>We are in the Nashville area, which is a huge health care hub along with a magnet for corporate relocation’s (for example, Nissan.) </p>
<p>Totally agree with you about the CC frustration, but I have a hard time logically with the wholesale Rutgers push back. If that school changed its name & location, kids in NJ wouldn’t have an issue applying there. Granted the main campus is split, and yes if you live in NJ it can’t be more than 2 1/2 hours away. We literally lived 5 minutes from the campus so for kids from our old town it was closer than CC; I get that part. But why someone from Passaic or Bergen County etc. would fight applying there is beyond me. I think it’s a “familiarity breeds contempt” situation ;)</p>
<p>Maybe being in Vandy’s backyard makes UT fever much less?</p>
<p>NJ has long had a lot of people with an inferiority complex. Some is from the constant smears by New Yorkers and TV comcis; som eis from th elack of identity created by such things as not having a network TV station, with half the state getting NYC stations and the other half Philly.</p>
<p>In the affluent towns, college competition is very intense and and kids going to Rutgers may feel they have lsot the race.</p>
<p>The split campus is far from ideal and the years as sports doormat hurt. NJ offers Penn State License plates for those interested–would TN ever offer Gator football plates?</p>
If you are “really smart” you might want to look at Vanderbilt, Sewanee or Rhodes. People from AL have a real dilemma because of the UA v. Auburn choice. It is really quite different than anything I ever experienced up north, but it isn’t “Us v. Them”.</p>
Anyway, there’s really not that same feeling here with the kids about wanting to “get out.” I was in NJ for a graduation in June, and the frustration among the kids who were going to CC or Rutgers was palpable. </p>