Teacher Recs: Despite all the great advice on CC, we STILL screwed up!

Parents Forum
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<p>Watch the deadlines. In some cases, they matter.
My son ended up on a waiting list for his first choice school due to one rec. being late. The school had rolling admissions, and the class filled early. S's application could not be considered until it was "complete"--EVERYTHING--including that last rec.--IN. (He did get off the waiting list, but that was after he'd sent in a housing deposit and mentally prepared to attend his #2 school. . .)</p>

<p>Have your kid write the teacher a note (tomorrow!) telling her about the deadline and thanking her, in advance, for her help. Kid needs to keep begging, keep following up until teacher says it is done. Bribe if you must (I wouldn't be happy about it). Teachers go through this every year. I'm guessing they have "form letters" and just change the details,
so it shouldn't be that hard.</p>

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<p>My daughter missed the boat by not asking a teacher (one who had given her A's in Spanish for three years) for a recommendation until this fall--he said he already had too many to do because so many had asked in the spring. This just doesn't seem equitable to me. The school guidance department didn't even give seniors an instruction packet for college applications until September. The guidance counselors should be running the process, setting a date when all recommendation requests have to be in, with the teachers then getting them at the same time and choosing those students they feel comfortable recommending. Now my daughter is lacking a recommendation that would have been very meaningful because she didn't run fast enough in a race she didn't know about. The whole college application process is turning in to a three-ring circus and I'm disgusted by it. No one gave a thought to recommendations before September when my son was applying 6 years ago, and somehow everyone got into college anyway. Now obsessed parents and hyperactive private counselors are creating dog-eat-dog frenzies and no one benefits.</p>

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<p>Sometimes even working ahead doesn't completely work.</p>

<p>Son tried to start early and asked teachers at end of his junior year if they'd write recs. They both agreed. By mid/late summer he'd given both stamped, addressed envelopes and a summary of his activities (in their school mailboxes and also emailed them). One teacher had all the recs out by early September (and that included recs to 20 odd schools, some of which she tailored specifically to the school!). The second teacher--at back to school night (mid-Sept) I thanked him, and he said, "I'm going to start on the recs, soon. I didn't check my email or mailbox over the summer." Arg. Whatever. It does depend on the individual.</p>

<p>The 'submit the college app' to get in line (even w/out the rec) is a good tip!</p>

<p>Hope it works out for your son, missypie. I would hope most teachers would put the "ED/EA" rec requests at the top of the pile....</p>

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<p>Lafalum--to me, recs are a part of a teacher's duties, not a favor. I detect an air of entitlement in the teacher's comment about Starbucks gift cards moving the student up in the queue.</p>

<p>Full disclosure--am married to a HS teacher.</p>

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<p>A couple of things...first check your school's policy on gifts. This teacher might be viewed as taking gifts "to get a job done" and that would not be good.</p>

<p>Second...If your child is applying EA, the forms and such should have been to the teacher as soon as they were available. Perhaps you did that, and perhaps there was a lag. Agreed with others, check to see that the teacher knows this is an EA application (and yes...most schools will still accept that recommendation later...but I will say...my daughter applied EA to a couple of schools and to one rolling school. She had an acceptance to one before Thanksgiving and to another a week after Thanksgiving. A recommendation after that time would not have been used as part of her application materials).</p>

<p>This is for THIS year's juniors....It may not work for everyone but it did work for both of my kids. Ask the teachers for recommendations about two weeks before the end of your JUNIOR year. Make your request in writing...in a letter with an email follow up. This will give the teacher ample time to write that recommendations at their leisure (and don't assume that teachers read their school email over the summer...it's not really part of their job to do so). My kids did not make these requests via email. They handed the teacher a typed letter with the names and addresses of the schools (of course they didn't know all of them...but it gave the teachers a start). When school resumed at the start of their senior year, they spoke, in person, to the teacher and followed that up by a note which included any forms needed, email addresses (some schools DD applied to were completely electronic...gave the teachers a PIN to use to send DD's recommendation), and any other information.</p>

<p>My kids included their application deadlines in their letters to the teachers requesting the recommendations....right up front...so that the teacher(s) would know.</p>

<p>Also check the college policy. Some ask that the recommendations be sent along with the applications. Others allow them to be sent separately with a signature across the fold on the back of the envelope. In those cases WE provided addressed and stamped envelopes to the teacher so they could be mailed.</p>

<p>The sooner you ask (in writing) the better. Some teachers write hundreds of letters. Our band director, for example, was asked by 20 seniors one year to write letters...and to multiple colleges for each student. He did them...but that is a lot of letter writing, even on a computer.</p>

<p>Agreed EA/ED requests should be done first...but only IF the student made their request in a timely fashion. In other words, if someone decides a week before the deadline to apply EA/ED, I personally think it is unreasonable to ask that their request be put at the top of the pile.</p>

<p>That is why I suggest getting the request done at the end of junior year. Most teachers these days write the letters, and save them on their computers. That way, the letter can then be customized with the college name and sent when the time comes.</p>

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<p>Mommaj, I am so sorry this happened to your daughter. I agree, having to be a top strategist in this high stakes game of college admissions seems ridiculous. Specifically, I am surprised the Spanish teacher didn't relent especially for an A student he has had for three years. Did your daughter make the request in private? Perhaps he felt if other students heard him agree to write a letter for her he would be bombarded with requests. Maybe your daughter could talk to him one-on-one and plead her case?</p>

<p>For some families, this is the first time they have had to navigate the sometimes complicated waters of college applications. It's always the first time for the student. Plus, in your case, it sounds like the rules have changed over the years.</p>

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<p>The thing is, different schools require different forms. It takes quite a bit of research to figure out who needs what. Three of Son's schools want the common app form,, but to get to the form you have to get into the common app and print out the form. Some common app schools still require their own form, and you may not know that until you get to that school's supplement. One school has an online form (which folks at the school refuse to complete.) One requires an actual letter. </p>

<p>Seems like if you asked the teacher to write a letter at the end of junior year and and she did, then in mid-Sept. you realized she actually needed to fill out the common app form, she might be a bit ticked.</p>

<p>Also, some schools require that the rec come from the teacher of a "core" subject, others don't. You don't really know that until you really get into the process. If you ask your band leader to write a letter over the summer, you may later discover that your favorite school requires a rec from only a core class. One school on Son's list wants a letter from a core subject teacher from Jr. or Sr. year. His recommending teacher is from Soph year.</p>

<p>Yes, a child can be ahead of the game enough to get all this down the first time, but that requires a child to have decided exactly what schools to which he wants to apply by the end of junior year.</p>

<p>There are lots of top of the class kids who are still doing college visits now and who have not settled on their favorite schools yet. If we are scolded for being too late, pity the kid who asks for a letter next month!</p>

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<p>I am no expert but I can tell you what my daughter did that seemed to work (except for one teacher losing his stuff!), though it's too late for your son. My daughter asked her teachers at the end of her junior year if they would be willing to write a rec letter for her the following fall. So initially she only secured their willingness to write, then once she had decided where to apply, she gave them the materials in September or October. Mid-junior year, the HS GC instructed my daughter to ask at least two or three core teachers, and only one non-core for a rec letter.</p>

<p>The teachers at our HS are very familiar with the college rec letter writing process. They do it every year. I imagine it's the same at most high schools?</p>

<p>It is a perilous journey no matter how well you try to plan ahead. Your son is very lucky to have you in his corner, missypie!</p>

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<p>missypie, one other thing to realize: The forms are not the be all and end all. </p>

<p>My d asked a junior year teacher to write a recommendation for her (at the end of her junior year). Two weeks later, he announce that he was leaving the school and moving across the country. He wrote the letter and gave it to her, since she didn't know where she was applying. He didn't fill out any forms.</p>

<p>I called each of the schools she was applying to (top LACS). Every one said it doesn't matter if there's no form. They care more about the content of the recommendation than the form it's on (or in). I also called a school that had its own form and asked if the Common App form was OK (for another teacher who had the form). The school said it's fine.</p>

<p>MommaJ, I'm sorry that this happened to your daughter. But your "solution" would make things even worse. Think about it. Let's say a popular teacher got all the requests on Sept. 15. The teacher takes one or two days to sort through the 72 requests (as noted above), and decides she can write a recommendation for 50 of them. So now it's Sept. 19 and the teacher tells those 22 students "No." Now what do they do? Everyone else is already booked up and these 22 are left in the cold in the middle of September. Multiply that by several hundred teachers, and September and October become disasters.</p>

<p>It's not that hard to figure out that popular teachers will be asked by a lot of kids to write letters of recommendations, and that earlier is better. We're lucky in our school that the guidance office starts talking to juniors in about March. But the college application process is just like anything else. Just like when applying for a job, you can't rely on HR or on a headhunter to tell you everything, so to with college applications. You need to educate yourself.</p>

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<p>*missypie, one other thing to realize: The forms are not the be all and end all. *</p>

<p>Hmmmm....I really didn't know that. I guess schools aren't going to advertise, "We require the common app form (but it's really okay if you don't use it)." How is a parent, much less a 17 year old, to figure out which "rules" are essential to follow, and which are not?</p>

<p>I did hear a variation of that last week, however. Baylor has an online rec form and the school won't use it. (I guess they want to have file copies.) The GC asked us to print a copy but I couldn't because I wasn't them. The ad com said that she'd never encountered a school that wouldn't use the online form, but that they could just write a letter.</p>

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<p>missypie, it is impossible to know how stringently each individual school will abide by their instructions. I called the admissions office if I had questions. Sometimes they were crabby and bothered, most times they were nice and understanding, but I always got my questions answered. I documented who I talked to and and when, and exactly what they said, just in case there was a problem later.</p>

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<p>One of the reasons my son asked his Latin teacher for a recommendation is that she teaches many fewer students than the US History teacher. He touched based with the two teachers in the spring of junior year, but didn't actually get the forms to his teachers until late September when the list was finalized. He gave a list of the due dates of the recommendations on a separate sheet. My impression is that since the teachers usually just reuse the same recommendation for each student and check the same boxes, it's easier for them to just do each student one at a time, rather than do all EA or ED applications and then all regular decision ones.</p>

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<p>I'm so glad I have two younger kids so I can put all this knowledge to good use! Maybe by child #3 I'll have it down. Again, you'd really have to do all this junior year, with a firm list of schools...to ask "Do the teachers have to use your form?" so you could ask for the letters before school gets out. I wonder how many first time Junior parents know to do this?! I would say that the majority of schools to which our seniors apply do not require recommendation letters at all, so little is said about them at Junior Parents' Night except "ask early." But asking early, I've found, doesn't save you a place in line. (Just wait, my younger two will probably attend lower tier state schools with few requirements, so all this knowledge could still go to waste!)</p>

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<p>Well....just my opinion here...but they should get used to that format if they are going to continue teaching. I predict (I'll come back to CC a few years after DD graduates to see if I'm correct) that ALL forms will be completed online in the not-so-distant future. One of DD's schools did just that. They had a PIN number that was given to the teachers and GCs. Letters of recommendation were sent electronically AND the transcripts were as well (yes...the school had to take the time to scan the thing and transmit it). I will say...ALL of DD's teachers who wrote recommendations (four in all) LOVED that format...they wrote and sent. Poof.</p>

<p>Now regarding the different forms...the teachers either did the forms (often an easy task...especially if the forms were sent to them electronically and they could "cut and paste") or they wrote on the form..."see attached letter" and stapled the letter to the form. </p>

<p>My kids applied to 12 schools total (between them...DS 7 and DD to 5). Neither had any difficulty with the recommendations being done as described above.</p>

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<p>I agree Thumper1....we live in north Texas and this is Baylor...I'm sure quite a few students apply to Baylor every year. I think they're insecure about not having a copy of the rec in the file. It will probably take them a few years to formulate a policy on this.</p>

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<p>D's school somewhat - well, more than somewhat - controls the rec process. D could not ask for a rec until after the first senior year meeting with the counselor. (She asked her science teacher - not yet knowing the process - and he replied that he would be happy to write a rec, but he could only do so once she returned with the proper form. The proper form could not be requested until after that gc meeting in Sept.) D had no problem when she told her gc which 2 teachers she wanted to write the rec, but I do know one young lady (same gc) who was steered away from her junior year teachers to senior year ones. I believe that junior year teachers play a big part for those students that need an ED/EA rec and senior teachers work with students who are not applying early. Transcript requests must be turned in a month early and the names of the rec teachers are on the request form, so that the school can stay on top of the process. Organization ;) and it seems to work.</p>

<p>BTW - A junior/senior year teacher knows that rec writing is part of the job description. While I expect my child to be grateful for the time and effort on the teacher's part, I also know that the school expects the upper level teachers to spend that time and effort on behalf of the student.</p>

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<p>But it seems like even with that degree of orginization, starting the process in September might not get a letter to a school by 11/1 if the teacher needed 7 weeks to get the letter done.</p>

<p>I know that there are beloved teachers who do write "zillions" of rec letters and others who would be shocked if they were ever requested to write one. But it seems like the very popular teachers - who know the requests are coming - could take the initiative to tell every requesting student "their rules", whether the rules are that they only take the first 20 who ask, or that they require 7 weeks lead time, or whatever.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Lafalum--to me, recs are a part of a teacher's duties, not a favor.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Parents, before you get your righteous indignation going on keep in mind that tn some cities/states writing recs are not part of the teachers contract so depending on where they work, they are not obligated to write recommendations. </p>

<p>I have heard some teachers straight out tell students that they do not do recommendations for any one. APs/administrators can encourage teachers to write recommendations, but they cannot make them and the union will back the teacher.</p>

<p>If the teacher is telling you that they cannot get the rec back early, perhaps this is a teacher that will write a rec for everyone that asks for one or does not want to bum rush a rec for a kid. As one parent previously stated most teachers will say that they are only doing "X" number of recommendations and if you are not in the number, you do not get a recommendation.</p>

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<p>And that's fine if they refuse to write them...they just need to tell the students their rules, policies, and refusals up front and early on.</p>

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<p>ignatious--that sounds ridiculous not to let the kids request a rec until after a Sept. GC meeting. It forces the kids to be behind the 8 ball and scrambling. Our school wouldn't put out class rank until mid-Sept, which was a pain. But, at least GC was willing to do recs in August (I think son was the only student ever to have requested something that early). I think kids need to be educated about how starting the process early can help them. And schools need to reformulate their policies to fall in line with this.</p>