Teacher says "in order to succeed you must hate your life and be miserable everyday?

[ChocolateBanana]

<p>Oh god…I thought I was done, but you did not interpret what I said well.</p>

<p>

Do they all crumble? No.
Is going to Harvard the only definition of success? Not in my book.

.</p>

<p>Dude. Okay, obviously Harvard =/= success. I was just using the most hyperbolic example. Thought that was obvious.</p>

<p>

There are people from inner cities who make it to pro leagues, people from inner cities who are millionaires. If they can, why not the others?

</p>

<p>LOL! This is hilarious. Like .0000000000001% of people from inner cities will become someone in the pros. So yeah, great avenue of success, but life is not The Blind Side for 99.9999999999% of people. If they can? Well, they have natural athletic ability possessed by few. They are outliers.</p>

<p>The point is, if you grow up in suburban DC vs inner-city DC, you have a great chance to graduate and to go to college and so on. You think it’s because of will? That is bull$hit. There are so many environmental factors at play.</p>

<p>

If they can, why not the others?

</p>

<p>This is what I find offensive. That you think the others can’t be successful (in whatever way you want to say), because of their will, when really so much has to do with their situation. Obviously, not all, and will is important, but a strong mindset/will/ability is not an automatic ticket to success—it might be in my position, but not in others. </p>

<p>

I’m telling you that there’s a fine line between idealistic and realistic.

</p>

<p>I do not need to be told this.</p>

<p>

But it has actual solid impact when you actually carry that out.

</p>

<p>Duh.</p>

<p>

If you didn’t want to help, but you still talked as if you wanted to, that’s not just freedom of speech. That would be lying. So much for morals if that were to happen.

</p>

<p>Hm…so if I say I wanted health-care to change, but I personally didn’t do anything, I would be “lying.” Disagree. </p>

<p>

Notice how I said “That can really go either way.” You talked about one side, I talked about the other. It’s called balance.

</p>

<p>But it’s not balanced. It’s not an even playing field. It’s not fair. That’s the problem.</p>

[geekorathletic]

<p>Again, you are putting words in my mouth.</p>

<p>Why not others means EVERYONE has a shot to success. No, they may not have the talent to make it to pros, necessarily. No, the shot at success is definitely not equal for everyone. </p>

<p>But they can have a respectable shot if they work the best out of their situation. No, strong will is not an auto ticket to success. It takes a lot more. You are blaming the situation alone, when situation alone is simply not to blame. There are many more factors to blame as well.</p>

<p>Who needs to be told of it? Those who don’t know. If you do, good for you. Now go and get the most difficult part done.</p>

<p>If you didn’t want health care to change, but if you said you wanted it to change? Yes, that would be lying. Again, you are putting words in my mouth.</p>

<p>Life is unfair.
It’s not fair, it’s not balanced, you are referring to the situation. I was referring to our discussion. A discussion is not fair if only one side is discussed while the other side is ignored.</p>

[arashi8]

<p>“Life is not The Blind Side”
Made me lol</p>

[ChocolateBanana]

<p>Dude, you say I put words into my mouth…and then repeated what I “accused” you of doing. </p>

<p>

If you didn’t want health care to change, but if you said you wanted it to change? Yes, that would be lying. Again, you are putting words in my mouth.

</p>

<p>Saying it’s “lying” is exactly what I said you said. Is that really me putting words in your mouth? No. HOW THE HELL IS IT LYING! I don’t get that. Millions of people want it to change, but they don’t all personally do something. That makes ZERO sense. </p>

<p>

No, they may not have the talent to make it to pros, necessarily.

</p>

<p>Using sports is stupid because it’s so rare–it just gets glorified in movies and such. </p>

<p>

No, the shot at success is definitely not equal for everyone.

</p>

<p>That’s one of my main points. Good. </p>

<p>

You are blaming the situation alone, when situation alone is simply not to blame. There are many more factors to blame as well.

</p>

<p>Now you are putting words into my mouth. Let me clarify: There are a countless number of factors that enter into success. The number of factors and their importance can never be truly known. But I think environment is of HUGE importance and it’s often discounted unfairly. That is my point. Environment is so important. I didn’t quite realize it until not too recently, but I’m glad I did. I used to have a skewed view–and probably still do–because of where and how I grew (and am growing) up.</p>

<p>

Who needs to be told of it? Those who don’t know. If you do, good for you. Now go and get the most difficult part done.

</p>

<p>Huh? And what is this “most difficult part?” </p>

<p>

Life is unfair.

</p>

<p>Duh. Annoying cliche, but yes. But what I mean, is that there are things WE can change, things that are unfair that we can change…so that’s what angers me. </p>

<p>

A discussion is not fair if only one side is discussed while the other side is ignored.

</p>

<p>I don’t think I’m ignoring a side. We are discussing something and hold different views, which is fine, but I think I am acknowledging what you are saying…</p>

[ChocolateBanana]

<p>

“Life is not The Blind Side”
Made me lol

</p>

<p>I like injecting humor into arguments. Add some levity to the situation, you know?</p>

[geekorathletic]

<p>Do I have to tell you that NOT DOING IT is NOT LYING? That’s common sense! I thought I said it clearly that thinking one way but verbally expressing the opposite opinion is lying. In other words, saying something that is not true at all.
Sitting there doing nothing is just doing nothing.</p>

<p>Pros and that kind of stuff are just a version of success. There are many other versions.</p>

<p>The most difficult part would be you actually turning it around. Now go do what you can. You say yourself you are angered. Time for you to do something about it. </p>

<p>No, chances at success may not be equal for everyone, but success is making the best out of their situation regardless of environment, regardless of how tough life is. Now, tell me if you really think everyone (in the inner city, for instance) tries to do that. Individual choice is the biggest factor. You can give up, or you can keep fighting. If you fight to the end, that’s a success: you didn’t quit.</p>

<p>And yes, you were almost ignoring a side. You are putting a major emphasis on environment alone. Does that mean you think environment is the sole factor? No, but you are emphasizing it nevertheless. </p>

<p>If every bloody unfair thing could be changed, life wouldn’t be unfair anymore.</p>

<p>Injecting humor may work well in actual verbal conversation, but not in discussions like this. Some usage of humor could be interpreted in an offensive manner.</p>

[ChocolateBanana]

<p>

Do I have to tell you that NOT DOING IT is NOT LYING? That’s common sense! I thought I said it clearly that thinking one way but verbally expressing the opposite opinion is lying, NOT sitting there doing nothing.

</p>

<p>Sorry, that’s what you seemed to be implying. Hence why I was taken aback. </p>

<p>

Pros and that kind of stuff are just a version of success. There are many other versions.

</p>

<p>Yes…but the chances of becoming a pro athlete are so rare and offer many false hopes and it’s referenced way too much. </p>

<p>

The most difficult part would be you actually turning it around. Now go do what you can. You say yourself you are angered. Time for you to do something about it.

</p>

<p>It’s that easy! I know exactly what to do! I wish it were like that. And your tone stinks. </p>

<p>

No, chances at success may not be equal for everyone, but success is making the best out of their situation regardless of environment, regardless of how tough life is. Now, tell me if you really think everyone (in the inner city, for instance) tries to do that. Individual choice is the biggest factor. You can give up, or you can keep fighting. If you fight to the end, that’s a success: you didn’t quit.

Right. To me, it’s a BIG DEAL that chances at success aren’t equal. Not everyone tries the hardest they can in the inner city…but it’s the same in the suburbs…and rural areas…EVERYWHERE. So, that’s why that logic doesn’t work, I think. Being in tougher conditions, I imagine, can oppress not only physical features, but mental as well. I don’t know, but being in a worse-off situation than the rest of the country and what’s on TV must be tough…so I think it makers it tough-ER. No, not impossible, but harder.</p>

<p>And yes, of course, not quitting is great and a success in its own right. I agree. </p>

<p>

And yes, you were almost ignoring a side. You are putting a major emphasis on environment alone. Does that mean you think environment is the sole factor? No, but you are emphasizing it nevertheless.

</p>

<p>I thought I made this clear. There are COUNTLESS NUMBER OF FACTORS that go into “success” or “happiness” or ANYTHING. And I never said environment was a sole factor. BUT I am EMPHASIZING it as I believe it’s not emphasized enough in general. That’s why I’m doing it. And it is big. But so is nature. (Nature vs. Nurture. and all…) </p>

<p>

If every bloody unfair thing could be changed, life wouldn’t be unfair anymore.

</p>

<p>Um…okay. But my point was that not every unfair thing could be changed. But something like public education CAN be changed…so hopefully it can be done. Obviously, life will never be wholly fair, but it can certainly be pushed further in that direction. And by fair, I mean opportunity–I don’t want a society of 100% equals (same house, same money, same car, same ability), or anything…just equal opportunity. </p>

<p>

Injecting humor may work well in actual verbal conversation, but not in discussions like this. Some usage of humor could be interpreted in an offensive manner.

</p>

<p>This is a HS forum. I think humor can be used in nearly every situation. I really don’t think I was being offensive…I was just making a point that movies highlight rag-to-riches story, but it’s really not a common occurrence by any stretch of the imagination. Sorry if I offended anyone, but I was just using a well-known example, really.</p>

[Wartsandall]

<p>What do you mean by equal opportunity, if the economy and education in general are not the sole attributes? In order for an individual to succeed, must an alternative individual fail? If we were all born in an equalized society, would that then justify the social standards that individuals are forced to cope with? Would some individuals inevitably fail to set those economic conditions? From a subjective standpoint, it seems ideal to perceive an equalized society. However, from an objective standpoint, the prospect is unrealistic.</p>

[geekorathletic]

<p>A person doesn’t have to make it to pros to be considered successful in sports. Just getting recruited to a college is hard enough.</p>

<p>This is a typed out discussion. Some people use mundane tone for everything. Welcome to reality.</p>

<p>I say again, success is making the best out of the given situation. Not everyone in any place tries their hardest, that is true. But the logic works. By not giving up, the kids in tougher situations are succeeding despite the odds against them. But those who crumble are not doing that. Individual choice is the difference between success and failure. It doesn’t matter (as much) where one is compared to the choices one makes.</p>

<p>You have to SAY what you think and acknowledge it. You were emphasizing the environment so much that you were practically leaving all the other issues behind, which is the reason I stepped in here and said you need to take every other variables equally.</p>

<p>Another idealistic view. Equal opportunity to everyone simply won’t happen. That’s the unfortunate truth.</p>

<p>I didn’t say that particular one is offensive. Just be careful in using humor. It could end up being really funny, or it could end in disaster.</p>

[ChocolateBanana]

<p>^^@Wartsandall: AHHHHHHH! You ask questions that need to be answered by 200 hundred page books. </p>

<p>I don’t even get 100% what you are asking, but I will try to explain.</p>

<p>I want equal opportunity, meaning, everyone should have the opportunity/chance to do what they want? That doesn’t mean everyone can or should succeed, though.</p>

<p>But, if one attends public school, there should not be a drastic difference between school A and School B. School A and School B should be very close to each other, in fact. I want equal opportunity.</p>

<p>I don’t want an equalized society, in terms that I don’t want communism/socialism…I don’t want everyone to have the same amount of money and the same house and so on.</p>

<p>But once there is equal opportunity, it will be mental capacities and soul and mindsets and willpower and such that will allow some to succeed, and others to fail.</p>

<p>Of course one person succeeding will not cause another to fail. </p>

<p>I just want everyone to have the same opportunities and chances (as close as possible). What happens from there on can be anything–and I imagine it won’t be equal and it shouldn’t be. But right now, certain people have unfair advantages.</p>

<p>You can’t help what you’re born into. This is why I’m bringing up education. This is something provided for…but it’s provided for unequally. There should be equity for everyone, regardless of their economic or social stature (or race or anything else). From there, with everyone getting the same opportunities…then everyone will have a chance for success and some will succeed while others “fail.”</p>

<p>I don’t know if this makes ANY sense–so you can ask me to clarify.</p>

[ChocolateBanana]

<p>

By not giving up, the kids in tougher situations are succeeding despite the odds against them.

</p>

<p>But I think it’s easier for those kids to give up than for a kid like me. That’s what I’m saying. It’s much more understandable for a kid in a tougher situation to “give up,” than it would be for someone like me to.</p>

<p>

Another idealistic view. Equal opportunity to everyone simply won’t happen. That’s the unfortunate truth.

</p>

<p>OMG. I’ve said this one million times. Obviously it’s an ideal. And it obviously won’t happen. But I think it’s worth trying to get as close as possible.</p>

<p>

I didn’t say that particular one is offensive. Just be careful in using humor. It could end up being really funny, or it could end in disaster.

</p>

<p>

This is a typed out discussion. Some people use mundane tone for everything. Welcome to reality.

</p>

<p>Do you know what you should be careful of? Your condescending tone. </p>

<p>

A person doesn’t have to make it to pros to be considered successful in sports. Just getting recruited to a college is hard enough.

</p>

<p>Okay, but once again, getting required to a college is rare as well. Not quite as rare…but sports is just not the best example to use. </p>

<p>

You have to SAY what you think and acknowledge it. You were emphasizing the environment so much that you were practically leaving all the other issues behind, which is the reason I stepped in here and said you need to take every other variables equally.

</p>

<p>I think I’ve acknowledge a lot of times that I am purposefully emphasizing the environment. And I do think it’s HUGE. Do you not? So is nature. But I don’t have the time and effort to discuss every factor–that could take years. Honestly. </p>

<p>

Individual choice is the difference between success and failure. It doesn’t matter (as much) where one is compared to the choices one makes.

</p>

<p>I disagree. I don’t think “choice” is the only difference. Just making the right decisions isn’t always going to be enough.</p>

[Wartsandall]

<p>How would one achieve that equal opportunity? Are you solely referring to schools? I don’t agree with the idea that a person’s success could not lead to an alternative individual’s failure. Life is composed of competitiveness. When implementing a company, one is faced with competition. If an alternative company acquires a significant amount of business, that can initiate detriment towards the contrasting business, something that in turn could lead to that company’s failure.</p>

[geekorathletic]

<p>Not giving up is success in its own right. Guess who else besides me said that?
You’ve just contradicted yourself. Individual choice on quitting or sustaining is the difference between success and failure in this case. Making the right decision and carrying it out is enough here. </p>

<p>Yet you are taking the time JUST on environment. Hence leaving other variables in dust.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, sports is the most hyped example. </p>

<p>Mundane tone really works well. Notice how I’m not the only one using such tone.</p>

<p>Go ahead, no one is stopping you. Good to see that you’ve accepted it won’t happen perfectly. But how can one ever achieve that equal opportunity you idolize? There’s no such thing as free lunch. Somebody out there somewhere will get less attention than the unfortunate that you describe of. For instance, you could focus on inner city kids or the poor people in Africa. But you can only do so much.</p>

<p>Again, individual choice. It’s harder for them to not give up, hence the greater degree of success.</p>

[ChocolateBanana]

<p>^I think it CAN lead to another person’s failure, but one person’s success doesn’t INHERENTLY cause it.</p>

<p>And I’m all for competition. If two products are made, but product A>product B, then product A should win out (SIMPLIFIED SITUATION). I’m for capitalism (regulated…), so I’m definitely fine with competition. I like competition. So…failure is part of life, it’s necessary. It’s too bad when companies fail, but it happens…just hopefully as a result of fair competition. </p>

<p>

How would one achieve that equal opportunity? Are you solely referring to schools?

</p>

<p>I am referring specifically to schools because that’s what I’m VERY interested in and I think it’s pretty darn HUGE. I mean, education is ESSENTIAL. Think of all the things education can do for you. I’m sure you can come up with many positives. So yeah, I think schools are a big part…not the only, but the part I personally am most interested in.</p>

<p>How can we achieve it? Does ANYONE know the answer to it? Once again, there is no panacea, no overarching solution. I am trying to find out more and more about public education, and I have ideas, but I don’t know. I hope to learn more.</p>

[ChocolateBanana]

<p>

Not giving up is success in its own right. Guess who else besides me said that?
You’ve just contradicted yourself. Individual choice on quitting or sustaining is the difference between success and failure in this case. Making the right decision and carrying it out is enough here.

</p>

<p>How did I contradict myself? Not giving up is a TYPE of success…but it’s not the same. It’s sad that success for one person could simply mean not quitting, while for the other it’s following one’s passion and getting a great job in that area. Just saying. </p>

<p>

Yet you are taking the time JUST on environment. Hence leaving other variables in dust.

</p>

<p>Ugh. I have to explain this again. Factors besides environment are important. A person’s nature, specifically. But apparently I can’t even speak of environment without getting accused of SOLELY considering it. FOR THE 100th TIME: THERE ARE SO MANY IMPORTANT FACTORS. ONE OF THEM–A VERY IMPORTANT ONE, IMO–HAPPENS TO BE ENVIRONMENT. </p>

<p>

Unfortunately, sports is the most hyped example.

That is the problem. It shouldn’t be. There’s no reason YOU have to follow it. </p>

<p>

Mundane tone really works well. Notice how I’m not the only one using such tone.

</p>

<p>This is stupid. I think I am being pretty logical and reasoning. That doesn’t mean I have to be mundane (re: boring) though. That doesn’t really make for dynamic speaking/writing. </p>

<p>

Good to see that you’ve accepted it won’t happen perfectly.

</p>

<p>Can you please stop being condescending? It’s not a hard thing to do. </p>

<p>

But how can one ever achieve that equal opportunity you idolize? There’s no such thing as free lunch. Somebody out there somewhere will get less attention than the unfortunate that you describe of. For instance, you could focus on inner city kids or the poor people in Africa. But you can only do so much.

</p>

<p>I never disagreed with this. But IT’S WORTH TRYING FOR. It won’t ever be fully achieved or wholly recognized…and do I know the solution? No. That is part of what I am trying to do…figure out some solutions. I can only do so much. You are right. But I can TRY. I do not know exactly what I can do yet. I will let you know when I figure it out. </p>

<p>

Again, individual choice. It’s harder for them to not give up, hence the greater degree of success.

</p>

<p>And the greater chance of them giving up. That’s the more important point to me.</p>

[Wartsandall]

<p>Competition is not always fair though. In order to be competitive, some companies feel compelled to offer cheaper products. In doing that, they must then acquire resources that cost less, thus decreasing the amount of pay the laborers that produce those products receive. Consider child labor, for example. Would that then be considered beneficial? I don’t agree with that perception.</p>

[ChocolateBanana]

<p>^How is what you described unethical? If they can get resources for cheaper, and then can offer a cheaper product, and sell more, they played it better and deserve it. As long as it’s not unethical, I’m fine with it.</p>

<p>If there are two people, but one is much better, shouldn’t they be hired (<em>simplified</em>)?</p>

<p>Competition should be fair, meaning ethical…are you saying companies can never offer cheaper products?</p>

<p>Southwest offers cheaper flights and doesn’t make you pay for baggage. It is doing well, but other airline companies are not doing quite so well. What’s wrong with that (granted, I have VERY limited knowledge here, but I am assuming nothing unethical is going on)?</p>

[geekorathletic]

<p>Not the same? Do you know what perseverance brings? In this case, making the right decision is enough, which is a contradiction to your previous statement.</p>

<p>Yes, yes, yes. Yet you are not being fair to all variables. That is still true. Doesn’t matter what you think if you don’t say it.</p>

<p>Who are you to say it should or shouldn’t? Sports is something a good number of people follow, and can be used as a motive. That’s a good thing, not a bad thing. Over-pursuing it wouldn’t be a good idea, yet sports can be and is beneficial.</p>

<p>Mundane tone works well. The content is what matters. By claiming your dynamic voice is the only way to go, you are not being logical in your reasoning. </p>

<p>And I could ask you the same not to be overly idealistic. Not very hard to do either.</p>

<p>Nothing in life is completely fair. If they are going to have a chance at a greater degree of success, it will be more difficult to achieve that success. You can’t have both.</p>

[Wartsandall]

<p>What I’m stating is that sometimes it’s not ethical. By offering lower prices, the laborers obtain less wages. I’m not stating that companies cannot or should not provide customers with less expensive options, but rather that morality should implement their decisions. For example, consider Walmart. It offers an array of cheap products but their workers are often exposed to health risks and poor working environments. In addition, the practice of child labor has enabled companies to produce products at more affordable and appeasing prices, something that may serve as a benefactor for the consumer, but a detriment for the laborers.</p>

[ChocolateBanana]

<p>

Not the same? Do you know what perseverance brings? In this case, making the right decision is enough, which is a contradiction to your previous statement.

</p>

<p>I’ve made a lot of previous statements. You have to tell me what you are referring to.</p>

<p>

Yes, yes, yes. Yet you are not being fair to all variables. That is still true. Doesn’t matter what you think if you don’t say it.

</p>

<p>Okay, whatever. I’m done with this angle. You are being impossible about it. </p>

<p>

Who are you to say it should or shouldn’t? Sports is something a good number of people follow, and can be used as a motive. That’s a good thing, not a bad thing. Over-pursuing it wouldn’t be a good idea, yet sports can be and is beneficial.

</p>

<p>Because, as you said, it’s over-hyped. It often offers false hope. Watch “Hoop Dreams,” and you will see what I mean.</p>

<p>

Mundane tone works well. Tone has nothing to do with the content. The content is what matters. By claiming your dynamic voice is the only way to go, you are not being logical in your reasoning.

</p>

<p>I never said I was dynamic; I truly doubt I am. What I’m saying is there is no reason to only be mundane…haven’t you read other arguments? Some of them have exciting tones. Or angry tones. Or sympathetic tones. There are MANY tones to be used–one such example is mundane. I agree in taking an academic approach, but academic =/= mundane, in my opinion. </p>

<p>

And I could ask you the same not to be overly idealistic. Not very hard to do either.

</p>

<p>Ew. First of all, I think most people would agree that being condescending is MUCH MUCH worse. Second of all, I already have said that all things won’t happen, unfortunately. And I don’t think being optimist/idealistic is a bad thing. I’d rather be friends with an optimistic than a cynic. And <em>gasp</em> but you can be optimistic AND realistic. </p>

<p>

Nothing in life is completely fair. If they are going to have a chance at a greater degree of success, it will be more difficult to achieve that success. You can’t have both.

</p>

<p>I don’t get this. Can’t have both WHAT? Who is “they?”</p>