Tell Me All About Lawrenceville

Prep School Admissions
21

<p>Those are all good things we discovered during our visit, but it is nice to hear them again. During our visit, we stayed the entire weekend, just on the other side of Princeton University. In addition to visiting Lawrenceville School we had breakfast at PJ’s, which is a local restaurant made famous in several novels, I believe., we visited Princeton University, toured the town and drove around to get a taste of Princeton and Lawrenceville, NJ. We think it is a nice and safe community. We did not see anything or witness anything that made us feel uncomfortable. And trust me, I was looking. </p>

<p>Ironically, ever since my D was 5, she said she wanted to attend Princeton. She believes this is a step in that direction.</p>

22

<p>When I went to Lawrenceville in the 60's there were no african americans admitted until my junior year. Do some research in the Lawrenceville prospective student handbooks and you will find that 1954 was the first year they did NOT contain the phrase "boys of the Hebrew religion are not encouraged to apply". I am Jewish and I was called a lot of obnoxious names and pushed around as a consequence, as was my brother. When I complained to my housemaster about my roommate's anti Semitism, he told me that it was up to me to educate and convert my tormentors. Today Lawrenceville promotes itself as diverse and sensitive, but old attitudes die hard and i wouldn't be surprised they continue behind that politically correct facade.</p>

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<p>Interesting post…As a Father of an only D, I am known to be very protective. I want to make sure I do not put my D in a situation were she will be unsafe. At the same time, we want to make sure she understands how our world works. She has to learn to live and work in a diverse community. In fact, the private school she attends is over 100 years old and by looking at pictures from the past, is in a redefining period. She is one of two African American students in the 8th grade. It has been that way for her since 1st grade. However, if you were to ask my D about her experiences there it would be all positive. We tell her “…the best way to continue to change the world, is to always try and do your best. Because you are always being watched by others, even when you don’t think that you are…” She has made what we believe to be life long friendships. All my wife and I can ask for is a similar environment at a BS. This is why I am seeking information from this thread. </p>

<p>Your experience is interesting and I am sure not unique for that period in our Nation’s history. I applaud you as you were part of history and perhaps helped change the culture at Lawrenceville. I hope you are proud of that. Being African American, I respect those before me that have similar experiences as yours. I call your type “Forerunners” and just hope my D, if faced with similar issues, does the same.</p>

<p>During our visit we spoke to several African American families of current and recent graduates, and we received really good input. In fact, they have a support system in place in case of really serious issues.</p>

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<p>Our son went to L'ville and graduated a couple of years ago. You cannot go wrong sending your daughter there. In fact as someone who obsessed about it as much as you are, I can tell you to relax and enjoy (as your daughter will) the ride. Also as someone whose other child went to a (also top of line) boarding school 4.5 hours away as opposed to 1.5 hours for L'ville, I can tell you its nicer to have your kid closer than further away. L'ville is small enough to be a very caring community, the classes are terrific, teachers are amazing in both their classroom abilities and out of classroom support, the facilities are first class in every respect, opportunities for out of class growth is unsurpassed, and the college placement is as good as any. So, my message to you is just to sit back comfortably in the knowledge your daughter is in one of the best places on earth and savor every minute of it because it goes by fast!</p>

25

<p>Caleno; I'm very sorry to hear about your experience. I don't doubt it, although the atmosphere for Jewish students at PDS and Hun, where my brother and I went in the 60s, was fairly positive as far as I could tell. </p>

<p>My uncle was Italian American, which in the '40s was like being Hispanic today. My grandmother ran a corner store in little Abbruzzo and my Uncle wound up being best friends with one of the "Virginia Clays" a man who 70 years later cried at my uncle's funeral and said the best memory of his youth was of sleeping "four in a bed" (There weren't enough beds) at the apartment over my grandmother's store. He always called himself "the fourth brother," and his father was an ambassador. My uncle had to do some fighting his freshman year, but he wound up being extremely popular. went on to Princeton, and was so comfortable in his skin that he eventually worked in the development office at Princeton. For what it's worth-I think in those old days there was this ethos of "fight your own battles," that persisted into the early 60s. I also think they probably told the same thing to any kid who complained of being picked on, for whatever reason.</p>

<p>I'm not saying that was right-I absolutely think it was wrong-but for some non WASP kids that approach worked out OK(eg my Uncle). From what I can tell from afar-Lawrenceville is now making a big effort. There is the "Harlem Renaissance Club" to facilitate networking among black alums and current students. I also know that PDS, Hun, Stewart and some other area schools have joined forces in some of their diversity efforts. </p>

<p>As an Italian American at PDS in the 60s there were some weird moments but I wouldn't trade the education I got there for anything. It sounds like the OP's daughter is thriving in a similar setting. Maybe she should try an overnight visit at Lawrenceville, just to be certain. I'm not saying there won't be any clubbiness, but our local public school has plenty of that as well.</p>

<p>I was on the parent diversity committee at my daughter's independent school. No place is perfect but I think most independent schools are making a real effort. Talking to other parents of minority students is the best way to get a feeling for the atmosphere. The admissions office should be able to put you in touch with minority alums and families of current students.</p>

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<p>jimb7: The facilities and faculty and staff have always been great and are now better than ever. They are what visitors and parents see and remark; the school world can look dramatically different to one who has to live it 24/7, when the adults are not around and the censorship eases. The problems may not be everywhere in the school, but I'm concerned that, as in my day, there may be toxic pockets. Today the ugliness is most likely found in corrosive beliefs of entitlement and unwarranted core delusions of superiority. Check, for example, on the history of treatment of alcohol abuse by students over the last 5 or 10 years.</p>

<p>Erlinda: You sound like a lovely and caring person and I commend your positive attitude and your diversity efforts. You might want to rethink an implication that the housemaster was suggesting "fight your own battles". Would you recommend to a PDS diversity director that he tell an African American reporting a noose on his door to "fight your own battle"? Would it change your perspective if I were to tell you that the roommate was one of a pack of about eight in the dorm, that I was physically weak enough to be in remedial physical training, and that there was a lot of physical hazing (no beatings, but humiliating nonetheless) involved?</p>

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<p>Caleno-Obviously what you went through at school was horrible, however you misread my post-where I clearly said I think that approach was, and is, terribly wrong. But I do think your housemaster's response was part of a "playing fields of Eton" mentality generally prevelent at the time. My uncle clearly got the same message you did as a result of the same kind of bullying, and in his case it turned out all right. Maybe the "streets of Trenton" were better preparation for Lawrenceville than everyone thought at the time. I'm not saying that was good-it's just the way it was.</p>

<p>For the record my father in law is a holocaust survivor, so I am well aware of just how terrible anti semitism can be, and not as naive as you may think I am . I've taught both in the inner city and at an independent school, and been involved in diversity issues at my daughter's school for the last seven years. Racism is a regretable fact of life everywhere there are humans, but I do think many independent schools are making a concerted push to change the climate for all students.</p>

<p>Your comments make the idea of an overnight visit and conversations with minority alums and families even more desirable for the OP's daughter. They are far more in touch with the current climate at the school than either of us are. The admissions office should be able to put the OP in touch with them. </p>

<p>I think what happened to you is unconscionable, but I also think it was part of an overall attitude prevelent at many boys' boarding schools of the time: that boys should fight their own battles. That something or someone was a product of their times doesn't make something like what you went through right, but it does suggest the possibilty of change. These schools offer the best education you can give your children. Because of that I've found pushing for change and holding our school to a high standard, a worthwhile thing to do. If we avoid these institutions entirely we are only allowing the racists and anti semites to win.</p>

<p>My experience with Lawrenceville is decades old and second hand. My experience with Andover is more recent and direct, and their efforts have been impressive. My experiences with independent schools, as a student, teacher. and parent, is that people choose them for two reasons, one is for the exclusivity/country club aspect-these are going to be where you find your pockets of regretable values and attitudes. The other reason to choose these schools is for the incomparable education. At PDS I found my closest friends among the intellectuals of my class, that was why I was there and the school didn't let me down. At every independent school, especially one of Lawrenceville's caliber, there are going to be really amazing kids for whom the intellectual life of the school is what really matters. My personal experience is that race and class don't count for much among those kids.</p>

<p>I just got back from breakfast with the diversity officer of our school, where we were discussing a lot of these same issues. Personally I'm convinced that endeavering to gain cultural literacy and combat racist and anti semitic attitudes wherever we find them, including in our own hearts, is an on going struggle. If we are really honest with ourselves, no community, including the Jewish community, and certainly not the Italian American community, is immune to racism and hubris. Despite what our parents and grandparents went through, we are still not perfect. Despite all the changes we went through in the 60s we are still not perfect. My work has put me in collaborative relationships with varous minority communities-even within these minority communities there isn't perfect tolerance for other minorities. This work of changing attitudes and staying open to others is something all people of good will have to attend to every day. I don't know where Lawrenceville is on the continuum of cultural literacy and good vibes. I do think it is something they are working on. These discussion forums are valuable because they allow for a real dialogue among people who have had different experiences. </p>

<p>I'm really sorry you had to go through what you went through. My own experience was the opposite; my public school is where I was chased home by the pack of bullies calling me a WOP; my public school is where I had to endure the endlessly offensive Italian jokes; PDS is where I was finally able to be myself. Interestingly-it was only my wealthy (male) Jewish classmates from Trenton who teased me about being Italian at PDS. Maybe I was a tempting target for their teasing because they saw me as one step down in the ethnic pecking order from them. They were friends, and I was able to laugh it off, but it still stung. My point is-no person or place is immune to this kind of bullying and tribalism, especially among adolescents.</p>

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<p>We understand that Lawrenceville students are allowed off campus (within a tight radius). Does anybody have experience within the Lawrenceville or Princeton communities?</p>

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<p>Princeton is a terrific little community - typical college town. There's not a lot in L'ville - couple of restaurants and the like. There is a bus line into Princeton from L'ville (10 mins) and a train stop in Princeton Junction than a shuttle (regular full size train) over to Princeton. The kids mostly stay on campus though - plenty to do both work and sports. Someone made the comment about alcohol and penalties. That is true of any prep school - just tell your kid as we told ours - don't drink and don't break any of the rules. Kids do get thrown out at all these schools for the usual reasons - drugs, alcohol, joy rides off campus pulled over by police, etc. If your kid wants to do those things keep them in the public school - less chance they'll get caught. Any of those things that happened while our kid was there - the school outcome seemed fair from what we knew of the situation. But as I say, don't obsess about this stuff, your kid can make great strides there and become part of the fabric of the ongoing community - the trick for the parent is to enjoy the ride.</p>

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<p>Rereading the past posts it sounds like you've already spoken with other families and gotten a good report, that is where I would place my faith as far as the social climate at the school is concerned. Your daughter sounds like a terrific kid and she should thrive there.</p>

<p>Princeton is a beautiful town and very safe as far as I can tell. My daughter spent part of the summer after eighth grade at a girls leadership camp that PDS put on, that was sited on the University campus. The girls all did research in the business district downtown and were allowed to travel around in pairs on foot interviewing business owners. The school felt comfortable enough to allow 13 and 14 year olds to do that on their own, so I think it must be pretty safe. </p>

<p>Caleno mentioned attitudes of entitlement-that can be an issue at any independent school. I am assuming that your family is extremely sucessful.
I do think a sense of entitlement can be an issue for the children of sucessful parents and when you get a bunch of type A kids and a bunch of type A parents in a place where everything is as absolutely fabulous as it is at Lawrenceville, it can create an unrealistic perspective on the world. That is a
sometimes subtle, sometimes not so subtle downside of these places. We have battled this at times with our daughter, who was a "lifer" at her school. Her idea of what a normal vacation or a normal amount of stuff is, has been distorted by what many of her peers have. Our family has our own ideas about consumerism etc and at times they have been at odds with what our daughter was absorbing from her peers and their families. There are lots of ways to counteract this and as a young adult our daughter has moved beyond that issue pretty much completely and is a really thoughtful person. From your posts I'm sure you are sensitively dialed into whatever issues important to your family, that may come your way. I guess what I'm saying is that there are definitly trade offs in sending your kid to a place as exclusive as Lawrenceville, but my experience is that it is these subtle influences that become more of what you are contending with. I wanted my kid to achieve all she possibly could while at the same time realizing she was lucky, and developing a sense of grace and humility about her accomplishments. As JimB7 said-it was a great ride watching it all unfold -and at times we needed to help her keep her feet on the ground.</p>

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<p>Can someone give me the average SSAT of L'ville?</p>

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<p>It's 81% according to BSR.</p>

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<p>I know that many visitors of this forum strong believe that the “Boarding School Review” site is out of date, misleading, and contains false information, but that site states that Lawrenceville's Average Percentile SSAT is 81%. Personally, we I find this very hard to believe. </p>

<p>When my wife and I are interviewing with school’s admission officers, we try to get that type of information. However, the Lawrenceville folks did not share this. Andover came right out and said 93% was their average. As competitive as Lawrenceville is, I can’t believe it is much lower than that. Certainly, not 81%.</p>

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<p>Does anybody know what their ISEE requirements are? My D tested and scored:</p>

<p>Verbal reasoning - 80%
Quantitative Reasoning - 96%
Reading Comprehension - 96%
Math achievement - 92% </p>

<p>She has decided to take the SSAT as well. She dosen’t feel that great about the Verbal Reasoning score.</p>

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<p>And their acceptance rate is 21% according to Petersons, which is generally accurate. BSR has it down as 29%.</p>

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<p>Before visiting this forum, I assumed that BSR was the official source of boarding school information. However, this forum has brought me a long way.</p>

<p>We also noticed that the tuition information is about 3 or 4 grand short of reality. It would be nice if they were right this time:-)</p>

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<p>So is BSR unreliable??
81% does seem low but the admissions rate seemed on target!
Where did you get your Peterson's info??</p>

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<p>crickett, are you interested in Lawrenceville?</p>

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<p>Yeah, I am :)
I think I'm replacing Hotchkiss with Lawrenceville.</p>

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<p>have you visited?
What grade will you be entering?</p>