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<p>This isn’t unique to UA. There is currently a discussion and linked article over on the Parents board: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1322934-more-hazing-drinking.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1322934-more-hazing-drinking.html</a></p>
<p>From what happykidsmom has been posting, it seems to be very similar to the decisions people make when in terms of which religious institution(s) they should attend. For example, some people are raised in that they have to go to a specific denomination of church, while others can only go to certain types of churches, only churches, any religious institution, or none at all. Some people may wonder why others “limit” themselves to certain choices, while others comment that they don’t understand how their lives are dependent on going to a specific church. </p>
<p>I am a business major and spend most of my day around Greeks, particularly Old Row Greeks, yet I often forget that Greek life is such an important part of some students’ lives. The fact that I was not born in the south and don’t have relatives who live in the south really has no bearing on this. What’s to say that a person has to remain best friends with the same group of people throughout college and beyond, especially if they are moving to a different part of the country, the world, or even just across the street? As I somewhat stated before, I live with the philosophy that I should and will love and respect everyone and if they don’t do that in return, it’s their loss. Life is much to short not to try new things and do what one wants (within reason). It’s why I can’t understand people who disown their children/siblings/family members when they have a different (or no) religion, come out of the closet, choose the “wrong” fraternity, etc. Sure people are imperfect, but what the person being disowned needs the most is another friend and continued emotional and financial support, not ridicule and disgust. happykidsmom, I am in no way attacking you or your family; what I am attacking is the idea that just because something is tradition means that it is good, proper, and should not be challenged.</p>
<p>“Be the change you wish to see in the world [and beyond!]” -Mohandas K. Gandhi</p>
<p>Well said, SEA_tide!</p>
<p>" I’m not meaning to be critical of the Greek system or insensitive, but she (or I) never understood the significance of recs often written by strangers to allow for joining a group." </p>
<p>Sorry to dredge this up again but I did want to address and clarify the concept of “recs”…especially as they pertain to sorority recruitment at Alabama. Recommendations are important for several reasons.
You see a rec isn’t just a piece of paper. When a PNM (potential new member) gets ready to go through recruitment at Alabama or any other competitive recruitment school she actually puts together what we call a “recommendation package”. In that package (that is usually placed inside a large manila envelope and given to an alum of each of the sororities represented on campus) is a sorority resume (this is different from a resume that you would do for a job interview), 2 pics (one head shot and one full body), a copy of her transcripts, an addressed envelope to the sorority the rec is being mailed to, and a personal thank you to the alum writing the rec. The PNM may also opt to include a letter telling a little about herself. All of this is given to an alum who will use this information to fill out a rec from for her sorority. When the form is complete everything is then sent onto the sorority.
These packets take time to compile and the resume has a very specific format and information.<br>
Finding women to write recommendations for each sorority on campus is time consuming and can also be frustrating. Ultimately most sororities prefer that the person who is writing the rec know the PNM and be from her hometown but sometimes that is not possible. the next best thing is if the alum knows the PNM’s family. If that requirement can not be filled then the PNM should reach out to her local panhellenic for an alum who would be willing to write a rec. If all else fails most national organizations have a list of volunteers who are willing to write what we call “blind recs”, recs that are written by someone who does not know the PNM at all. This is a last resort !
I write many, many recs each year. As an alum I write them in all of the capacities listed above. I WILL NOT write a rec for a young woman who I have met with or if logistics make this impossible at least spoken with on the phone (kind of a interview of sorts).
Recommendations are VERY important in the recruitment process. They “introduce” the sorority to the PNM and let them know that she is coming through recruitment. It is their first “glimpse” of what this young woman has to offer. Many sororities identify different characteristics and qualities they are looking for in a pledge class. A rec and also a young woman’s resume, help to point out the areas she shines in (this includes her GPA and test scores which are VERY important to all sororities!).<br>
If a young woman does not have a rec for a house then they do not know she is coming through and more importantly she has not been identified as someone who would be a good fit and has lots to bring to the sorority table so to speak. It is a huge disadvantage. In most cases those girls are not invited back after the first rounds of parties. I can’t really go into the selection process but lets just say that a girl without a rec is at a huge disadvantage…especially when she is competing with 2000 girls.
Sororities have no way of personally getting to know each girl before recruitment begins (even though there are invitation functions that do exist pre-recruitment). It is even harder when PNM’s have 30 minutes in a house and then the sorority and the girl (remember it is a mutual selection process) have to decide whether that group of girls is a good fit. If a sorority has a rec on file they try VERY hard to pair the PNM with someone who she has similar interests with and has the possibility of making a connection.
There are posters her on CC who have had their D’s go through recruitment and have first hand knowledge in how important a rec is…even if it has to come from someone who doesn’t know the PNM. They will tell you that their daughters were dropped from houses at Alabama because they did not have a rec for that house.
To be honest having a “blind rec” is better than no rec at all. I encourage the girls I help to reach out to their local panhellenics if they are having trouble finding a rec. Most of the time the woman who they have asked to write a reac will not do it unless she has met with the young woman…again if this is not logistically possible then they will do a phone interview.<br>
I hope this clarifies how important recs are and that they are not just pieces of paper that are filled out by someone who doesn’t know the PNM…I have to tell you that some sororities will not accept a rec from someone who does not know the PNM or her family.
One more thing. Although Alabama’s Panhellenic discourages them some young women will also have"letters of introduction" sent to each chapter on campus. These letters are written personally by alums of the chapter in which that alum personally endorses the PNM for membership. These can carry a lot of weight when it comes to desisions made about certain PNM’s…especially if the alum is directly associated to that particular chapter (I should tell you that most chapters at Alabama receive these letters and value them).
Again Greek life is not for everyone…going through recruitment is a lot of work. I think it’s really hard for OOS girls who have no Greek Life background to grasp the process unless they have some help from an outside source who is knowledgeable about recruitment at an SEC competitive recruitment school.<br>
I would also say that in choosing a sorority you are not only making a choice of young women you are going to be friends with for the four years you are at Alabama but also for a group that you will be associated for the rest of your life. Where ever you go, hopefully…there will be sisters to welcome you with open arms. You a bound by ritual and a sisterhood that binds you for life. These women will be in your wedding and may be the godmother of your child. It has been 36 years since I pledged my sorority and I still talk to my pledge sisters and my big sis…sometimes several times a week if not every day. We are scattered across the US. In addition I my sisters who I live by and work with as an alum.
For many young women who are “southern” this is a stepping stone for greater social circles, junior league, country clubs, and philanthropy groups. My daughter looks forward to these events in her upcoming life. She looks forward to the day that she ties her engagement ring on a bouquet of flowers and passes them…getting to blow out the candle while her sisters sing to her.
It’s not for everyone but for many of us who are Greek it is a VERY important part of our college experience.<br>
I sympathize with Happy and her dilemma…it’s a tough one.</p>
<p>Ahpimommy, as a long-time lurker but rare poster, I believe that is the best post I have ever seen on CC. I have ties and insights to the greek system both in the Big Ten and SEC and you have described it perfectly!</p>
<p>I have to say that while I believe everything that Ahpimommy wrote in describing the process, it’s one of the biggest “turn offs” I’ve ever seen in regard to pledging a sorority. If my daughter was considering rushing, simply the process itself, with these letters having to be written - even by someone who doesn’t even know the girl! - requiring “head shots and one full body shot” - BLECH! - I’d strongly discourage her. I really wish we were beyond all of this.</p>
<p>Editing to say that I don’t mean to shoot the messenger here - not my intent.</p>
<p>Suzy (and others who are a bit taken aback by Bama Rush/Greek "stuff), I think it’s very much a cultural thing to apply principles to the rush process that most CC kids/parents consider logical for other application/scholarship processes. However, CC kids and parents are also much more forward-thinking when it comes to scholarship, award, summer program and college app strategies. Kids who understand how to be successful pledging a Greek house at Bama treat rush just the same way as one would treat other highly competitive app processes. It’s all about numbers and marketing. Know your audience. Do the work. Market yourself. Hope for the best. </p>
<p>You hire tutors, put your kids in every class and lesson available, drill them, prep them, primp them, try to give them every advantage you can think of before you send them out into the world. Why do parents go to all of this trouble? Because, in the end, they know their children will be judged by people who do not know them, and they want their children to be seen in as positive a light as possible. We tend to be more critical of those who judge our kids in an area where they are weak than those who judge them in areas where they excel above their peers. Some kids are born with the ability to excel academically. Some have to work a whole lot harder or forget about receiving academic awards and scholarships. Some kids are born with talents in the arts. Some have to work a whole lot harder or forget about sitting in the first chair, solo recitals or college scholarships. Some kids are naturally gifted athletes. Some kids have to work harder or forget receiving athletic awards and scholarships. Some kids are born with the physical attributes of a god/goddess. Some kids have to work hard to attain more pleasing physical characteristics or forget about having straight teeth, glowing skin and healthy, attractive physiques. Some kids are born into wealth. Some kids have to work harder to pay for college extra-curriculars or forget about college and extracurriculars all together. Some kids are born into well-connected families. Some kids have to work hard to make similar connections , or forget about getting into the Greek house, student organizations or job positions they want. </p>
<p>Rushing successfully at the UA takes a lot of work, and takes more work for some than others. But I don’t find it strange or foreign, at all. Photos are required for many reasons (first and foremost, to allow actives to identify your child in a massive group of girls so that she can become better known in the house!). But, yes, physical attractiveness is one of the many factors that is considered when choosing rushees to keep/cut for the next round. There are gorgeous girls every year who get cut from their favorite houses because their GPAs are too low. There are fabulously wealthy girls who are cut from their favorite sororities because they arent as attractive as another girl with similar stats. There are unattractive girls who are pledged by top houses every year because they have great stats and/or come from a wealthy family. Just as a competitive college seeks to build a well-rounded class, sororities need a girl for every job. They need the scholars to help pull up other’s low grades. They need politically ambitious girls to run for campus offices. They need members in every school on campus to help out their sisters who are struggling in their major. They need pretty girls to put up for Corolla and Miss UA. They need athletic girls who can win intramurals. Creative/artistic girls for signs and yard displays. Yada Yada. </p>
<p>If your child wants to rush, understand that they will be judged by pretty much the same standards as scholars are judged applying to top universities are judged (do you REALLY think that admissions interviews are just to make sure the applicant is breathing?) Isn’t appearance just one of MANY aspects that your child is judged on every day? Sororities are no different than virtually every entity/individual I am familiar with in that regard. We don’t have to like it but, yeah…, people want to see what we look like. Treat your daughter’s rush applications just as you would any other application and make sure she is seen in the best possible light. Then, let fate take its course.</p>
<p>As for recs, having a lot of recs is of more benefit to the unknown rushee than the connected one. The only way an unconnected girl is going to be noticed in a crowd of 2000 rushees is if her photo and resume repeatedly appear on the Pledge Chairman’s desk (even if some of the recs come from people who don’t even know her.) Once again, it’s a question of numbers. I would add to Ahpimommys very good explanation that, with 2000 girls going through every house the first two days, youd better by golly make sure that somebody in that house knows your child is in da house, or they wont be asked back. Its that simple. Half the list (1000) has to be cut after the first round. When I was rushing and active, one rec was required. Two were better. Three or more meant that girls picture and photo were probably going to end up on the wall with the legacies and top rushees. At that time, we were rushing about 800 girls every year. Now its 2.5 times as many. An unconnected OOS girl with fewer than 3-4 recs is probably going to be lost in the crowd, especially in the most competitive houses.</p>
<p>Southern girls know that the more times their name and photo cross the desk of the Pledge Chairman in each house, the greater their odds of being recognized in the Sea of Awesomeness during rush and invited back. A girl who has no rec at a house is not going to be invited back when each house will have recs for 1000 girls who must (as a courtesy to the alum who wrote it) be invited back. Its basic math. An OOS girl who knows nobody and only has one rec is probably going to be lost in the shuffle, as well, even if the rec is from someone who has known the girl all of her life. Its not that shes not great, it is that there are SO many other girls who are equally great who have worked their fannies off to get the attention of the Pledge Chairmen and actives. If you dont have friends in the house or any other connections to a house, youd better FLOOD that house with recs and letters. Bama Rush is exactly like most other endeavors, either do it right or you probably shouldn’t even bother.</p>
<p>I helped a girl in our neighborhood rush at Bama a few years ago. Keep in mind, I dont know any Bama grads in our state. And the rushee was an upperclassman transfer student from OOS who knew nobody in Alabama. Junior OOS transfers who pledge at all, much less pledge one of the old, long-established houses, are much like the proverbial needle in the haystack. However, pledging an old house was her goal so, for two weeks, the rushee, her mom and I worked 6-8 hours a day, editing and printing her resume, calling friends and moms of the rushee’s friends, asking which sororities they were in and if they would write a rec, taking pictures and printing them, writing thank you notes, mailing out rush packets, etc. Then, I went with them to Bama for Bama Bound. We rented a car and I introduced her to friends in several cities. All of my friends who met her offered to write recs. We went shopping for her rush clothes in Bham and T-town. We let the sales associates, many of whom were sorority girls, know that she was rushing. A couple were actives who couldn’t tell her their affiliations but later requested to escort her through their houses during rush BECAUSE THEY KNEW HER already (from a 30-minute shop in a store). Others were alums who offered to write recs for her. These girls understood the importance of knowing an OOS girl before she came in the house. </p>
<p>We took 30 rush packets with us for our five day trip to Bama, we ran out of packets two days before we left, went to Kinkos, printed a few more copies of everything off from email, and handed those out before we left. She went through rush as a transfer student from a state most Southerners would be hard pressed to ID on a map. She had a great rush, went to two top houses for pref night, and pledged an old, tippy top house as an upperclassman transfer student from LaLaLand. </p>
<p>Few on CC bat an eye at the lengths some parents go to in an attempt to craft their children into something they arent or to maximize their kid’s strengths academically, athletically, artistically, etc. Personally, I find a lot of THAT stuff bizarre. Its a bit like watching a train wreck to me when parents become more invested in activities and goals than the kids. I keep waiting for some of these kids to fall apart (and they occasionally do so.) At the very least, its expected that parents will do everything they can to support their kids by helping them stay organized and making sure that college and scholarship app components and gathered, completed and sent off. Yet, when kids (and their parents) apply similar principles to rush that they would apply to college or scholarship applications, people are aghast. LOL </p>
<p>Unlike other highly ranked schools, for many kids at Bama, the college application and acceptance is the easy part of the admittance process. Rushing and pledging a Greek house, making new friends and connections, and taking advantage of the opportunities afforded by affiliation is just as important (if not more) to their future success as anything they will learn on campus. Discount this if you will but, first, you should take a look around the campus and note the names of some of the benefactors of prominent buildings and programs on campus. Check the benefactor’s bios. Read the bio’s of other prominent donors in UA publications. That’s just for starters. I assure you that the Greek systems on Southern college campuses are anything but trivial. You do not have to be a part of them in order to be successful in life. The UA is a wonderful, diverse campus with opportunities to be a part of something extraordinary around every turn. But, if Greek life is of interest and you attack the rush process with the same effort you would put into winning a highly sought after scholarship or applying to a top tier university, there is much to be gained from the opportunities afforded through greek affiliation.</p>
<p>A few more words about Greeks at Bama…</p>
<p>re: sorority recs. You COULD be offered a bid with no recs. But the sororities must cut hundreds after the first two days. The first cut is for grades. The second would be for not having a rec. Why chance it? If you’re serious about wanting to pledge, get a rec, at least one for EACH group. At least, make an effort.</p>
<p>Re: drinking. Nobody should be forced to drink. You CAN be a Greek and not drink. More than 1 fraternity is dry. You may have to be a little creative in side-stepping some insistent brothers, but it can be done. Plenty of Greeks don’t. It’s just that they’re quieter than the ones who do.</p>
<p>Re: remaining independent. Despite the hoopla, two-thirds of the student body is NOT greek. There are plenty - PLENTY - of ways to connect with other students. They do have to be willing to step away from the computer and away from the video games. Students do it all the time.</p>
<p>In hopes of getting this thread back to the original topic, I’ll provide what we love so much about 'Bama even though I know the original poster is already coming. While I recognize that the UA will not be a perfect fit for everyone, we couldn’t be happier. I would highly suggest anyone looking for a great school plan a visit to campus. Roll Tide!</p>
<p>Academic opportunities
Generous scholarships
Beautiful campus and architecture
Genuine warm feeling of welcome by faculty, staff, and students
Tremendous leadership and focus of administration
Really incredible dorms designed with students in mind
Opportunities for involvement to those who seek them
Cohesive community on campus and off
Nick Saban
Football
Gymnastics
Campus is safe and well maintained
Location and climate
The Honor’'s College
Southern charm and manners of students on campus
Reminds me of my childhood in Tuscaloosa and everything near and dear to my heart</p>
<p>We absolutely love the UA and are proud of our daughter’s choice to attend. She is an excellent student, received generous scholarships, is on the President’s list with a perfect GPA, enjoys challenging classes, is known by name by all of her professors, has made great friends, received many honors, is active in both leadership and community service, and has learned to absolutely LOVE FOOTBALL and gymnastics. The University of Alabama has provided the perfect (or nearly perfect) environment for the first of our children to grow and blossom into a very beautiful, successful, and strong young woman. Thank you UA, and Roll Tide!</p>
<p>DD is on campus this weekend for the first time. WOW - is all anyone can say - beautiful campus. Never saw dorms with recreational pools before…</p>
<p>Welcome! I hope she enjoys her visit.</p>
<p>Kanjdad: So glad that your daughter could visit. Could you please post details later and let us know how it went?</p>
<p>Roll Tide, kandjad.</p>
<p>Tour went very well!! The folks my D met with are fantastic! She met with the music department and the study abroad group. Beautiful campus - loads of opportunity - my kid was blown away. Needless to say - it is official - she is Bama Bound this fall!! ROLL TIDE!!</p>
<p>Welcome! Roll Tide!</p>
<p>Now you had better go post your name before Vlines gets back…</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/658245-parents-high-school-class-2012-a-1042.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/658245-parents-high-school-class-2012-a-1042.html</a></p>