Telling a kid you can't afford their "dream" college

Parents Forum
21

<p>Lots of great points above!</p>

<p>This isn’t a single conversation. As an engaged parent you never have to tell your kid 'Congrats on getting accepted to Brown! You can’t go because we can’t afford it."</p>

<p>Take the power back. I don’t think couching it as ‘can’t afford’ is useful at all. Life is full of choices - I could buy a Ferrari by draining my retirement account. I choose not to spend my money in that way. I talk to my kids about the relative value all the time. I can afford private school X but am not willing to pay 3-4X the price of public school Y. </p>

<p>Have the conversation about value - what are those incremental dollars buying and why should I spend them? What should I start or stop doing to get those dollars? (work extra hours, move into a smaller house, de-fund my retirement, sell a car) Are those reasonable trade offs so the kid can go to a ‘better’ school? Maybe, maybe not. it is a very personal decision.</p>

<p>I also love the point about not letting the concept of a single ‘dream school’ develop. Don’t show your kids schools you know you won’t pay for. College is just one step on a long path of life. It is not the destination or end-point itself.<br>
.<br>
Well before applications go out, students should have a good feel for what the parents plan to pay, how much they aid they’ll get, etc. This should rarely be a surprise.</p>

<p>I do think there is a small handful of elite schools that present such a unique oppotunity that you’ be a fool to pass up due to budget. I would happily work an extra year or two to send my kid there. It is a very short list though.</p>

22

<p>I’ve always thought that, at a reasonably selective school, at the undergraduate level, the education received at one large university will be comparable to the next – so it’s fiscally irresponsible and foolish to incur more debt than is necessary. I told my son this, and it resonated.</p>

<p>As regards reasonably selective smaller LACs, I think that the benefits may be worth the premium for some students, but not worth incurring full-price private tuition debt that adversely affects quality of life – that’s simply not a dream. This also resonated well with expatSon.</p>

<p>Extremely selective schools are a different matter. They’ve never been on our radar, but I’d imagine that if one can get admitted and obtain a free-ride (or even half-ride) based on academic merit or need, then the connections made may make such a school a fiscally prudent decision. But on full-pay – at the current tuition rates, those schools are only for the wealthy, or for those whose parents had the foresight & discipline to make them a realistic possibility.</p>

<p>I think that’s the reality of undergraduate education in America. It is what it is. Certainly no apology is needed from parent to child. That said, parents of children who could benefit from higher education (which is probably most every parent) but are disenfranchised by the system because of the high cost (which likely was not (or was much less of) an issue for the parents) should be lobbying their representatives for systemic reform. I’d suggest that the high price of U.S. education is, on the whole, draining the U.S. economy, both in terms of finances (un)available to spend on other goods & services, and underutilized national brainpower.<br>
[/rant]</p>

23

<p>D’s dream school has transitioned to one that she can complete undergrad debt free since she wants to be a physical therapist (so that will need paying for). We have a list. She will go wherever we can afford that has the program and sport that she is looking for. She knows what I can pay. Nope, will not be taking a PLUS loan but she’s welcome to borrow - but our goal is for her to go to a school that we can split the out of pocket costs between myself and her working a part time job. It wasn’t a hard conversation either, I just said it.</p>

24

<p>

That was also our experience. In fact, expatSon has been more aware of school costs, being inclined to take the least expensive option, rather than what might be (marginally) better academically but somewhat more expensive (although still within our budget). </p>

<p>The boy has his grandparents’ frugal values (which we’re delighted to see).</p>

25

<p>I wish high schools took on the task of educating students on cost, projected incomes and payback terms. I took the several schools my children were interested in, along with best estimates of COA. I then took their proposed majors and found avg salary data, worked them into loan payoff amount per month that THEY could be saddled with.
I realize this turns many off on CC as it focuses college as a financial investment, and not a grander education for the sake of education experience, but the look on my kids faces when they saw the real budget world certainly helped them understand.</p>

26

<p>The dream in our household was having both kids graduate debt free and one that gave older child significant merit aid (since his stats were much better than most). Neither kid got hung up on one dream U and S did choose among several Us that offered great merit awards.</p>

27

<p>I kind of disagree with not showing your students schools that you can’t afford. My kids saw several (informal visits, not official tours) and what they took away was that those schools are nice, and usually there are one or two really cool Hogwarts looking buildings that scream Harvard or Princeton, but that in the end all colleges have those cool or unique-to-that-school things. </p>

<p>Window shopping doesn’t hurt as long as everyone knows that you are just looking. We didn’t go out of our way to look at Duke, but since we were in the area, we looked.</p>

28

<p>Parents need to do their homework and know how much they can and are willing to spend. Then they need to have a clear and honest conversation about it. This shouldn’t be some crisis to deal with after a kid has applied and been accepted to a college which is financially out of reach. Use those net price calculators!</p>

29

<p>I actually had the experience 5 years ago of telling son we could not afford to send him to the University of Michigan (out of state) after he was accepted. It was one of his top choices. This took place before the net price calculators were available and I expected/ assumed we would get more FA than we did. He wa awarded a Stafford loan and that was it. I really felt incredibly guilty and just awful. I was, at that time, uneducated on college costs and FA and had repeatedly told him just to work hard in school and we would make the money work. I meant it when I said it, but what an idiotic thing to say! This situation with Michigan came just a few weeks after he was deferred by his ED school, so to say the winter of 2009 was dreadful would be an understatement! Thankfully, March 30 brought two great acceptances with excellent FA and he finally had options.</p>

<p>He had a great experience at his 3rd choice school - graduated on time and is employed! So, it all worked out in the end.</p>

<p>Needless to say, I handled younger son’s college search very differently. Established a maximum amount we could afford to pay each year upfront and warned him that if he was accepted at a more expensive college without substantial aid, it would be a no-go. Wisely, he only applied to schools below our maximum budget and had no disappointments.</p>

30

<p>A dad in our 2015 parent group said: “Don’t have a dream college, have a dream life. There are many ways to get there.” I like it.</p>

31

<p>For parents who have said “no” to their children throughout their lives…“no” about college really isn’t all that hard.</p>

<p>The issue is that many parents spend a lot of time trying to get their kids to be their friends. They are also overly concerned with impressing others and worry too much about the social status of their kids. So for many parents “no” is just not in their vocabulary. They buy them the clothes they want, and let them go to parties they know aren’t the best idea, and give them cars as a right of passage. But then along comes college and the money really just isn’t there. Parents have hit the wall and need to face a reality of parenting…you can’t give your kids everything.</p>

<p>So I said “no” to my bright, talented, hard working D when we realized that we were not going to get any financial aid and when we calculated the cost of college for real. The cost was eye opening. But my husband and I sat down and came up with a number that we could pay for and basically told older D that we would pay for the cost of an out-of-state state university, but no more. So privates were fine as long as they came with merit aid or were within commuting distance from home.</p>

<p>So it was a no to Vassar with its gorgeous library and no to the Ivies despite their prestige. D worked hard to get merit aid in all different ways from the colleges that remained on her list. Luckily, her “dream” school among the schools she applied to was NYU and she got talent merit aid there.</p>

32

<p>I am a firm believer in leaving a lasting EDUCATIONAL legacy to her children (as long as my retirement is secured). I won’t pay for a wedding, nor a downpayment, and I don’t intend on leaving any inheritances to my 2 kids. But I am willing to spend what it takes for my kids’ excellent education. And I am willing to incur debt to do so. </p>

<p>I am from Canada, and from when my kids were babies, started contributing to a Registered Educational Savings Plan (similar to your American 529, I surmise). Paying for kids in daycare, as well as contributing to their RESP (as well as mortgage payments, etc) was tough - there were times when frills were kept to a bare minimum; but now I am reaping the benefits and rewards. My DS is in grade 12 (senior) and my DD is in grade 9 (freshwoman) and their RESP account has about $100K in it - this thru making $417 contributions every month since 1999 (half that for DS from 1998, before DD was born).</p>

<p>My DS first CND choice is Waterloo Co-op (for Computer Science) which based on the numbers would leave us Out of Pocket by $30K total - assuming 5 years x $22K costs and earning $80K in co-op placements. Did I mention that Waterloo is the worlds largest co-op school, with 16K of the 24K students in co-op? A very profitable school choice indeed. But quite technical and although great for securing a job, I want more for my kids.</p>

<p>Upon my research, and my son’s excellent stats and more important, his great passion for learning (he is gifted), we visited your wonderful Ivies last summer and got him interested in attending. I expect the cost to be, with financial aid included about $35K per year. So theoretically after the 3rd year, our RESP account would be depleted and DD would have zero $ for her education.</p>

<p>However, having Defined Benefit retirement plans in place, our retirement should be secure (God willing no drastic changes from our employers) - so I am willing to go into debt using our HELOC to do so. </p>

<p>How will we make it work? If DS gets accepted, for example to Princeton, he will apply to the Bridge Year program and start 1 year later - fall 2015 - since DD will be attending in 2017, the 3 year gap between kids will now be 2 years and that 3rd year cost will be diminished with another child in university. I am willing to go into high time frugal mode and even take on a parttime job to save even more.</p>

<p>We will make it work, and it may entail us working a few more years beyond our anticipated retirement date. I may change my perspective in time if life provides me with hard knocks.</p>

<p>Oh, and like many poster, I have said NO more times than yes to my kids. I am often surprised how frugal my DS is - he is well trained.</p>

33

<p>I think that the best thing to do is discourage the idea of a “dream” school in the first place. Better to identify a number of schools that the student would feel enthusiastic about attending where s/he would likely be able to attend if admitted, and where s/he is a realistic candidate.</p>

<p>My S, like other high-stat, low-income kids, did not have a financial AND academic safety. Merit schools were pretty much off the table. He needed to get into one of the true meets-need schools to really afford college. I suppose that if he had not been a realistic candidate at those schools, we would have had to formulate a different plan, but luckily it worked out.</p>

34

<p>

</p>

<p>What was his plan if he got shut out (i.e. no affordable admissions in April)?</p>

35

<p>There was no plan. It was highly unlikely, and it didn’t happen.</p>

<p>As it happens, his academic safety gave him the worst FA package. Not surprising, because they were the least-rich school.</p>

<p>Part of this was being a REALISTIC candidate. Most of the kids who think they are realistic are in fact marginal.</p>

<p>The ultimate fall back plan would have been appeal, followed appeal to his grandparents, plus home equity, even though it would have beggared us even further.</p>

<p>We would have done pretty much anything to fund his education.</p>

36

<p>We told our kids to choose a variety of schools that they were willing to attend if accepted. Sure, they had a number one choice (although with one kid it changes numerous times). The “dream school” thing was not encouraged. We told our kids, and they also believed that there were MANY colleges where they would be happy and could thrive.</p>

<p>I think encouraging a dream school is not wise. There is no way to guarantee acceptance or the ability to pay,</p>

<p>Also, we did not allow our kids to apply to any schools that were unaffordable, and they knew our bottom line (which in our case was a high one, which placed very few financial restrictions).</p>

<p>I do think parents should be very frank about what they are able and willing to pay, and be clear that their kid will need to walk away from ANY school that does not meet the financial criteria. This should be done EARLY in the college application process. In my opinion, it should be done before the applications are sent.</p>

37

<p>I had never heard the term “dream school” before I came here, after I was already in college. When I applied out of high school I just wanted to go wherever the best fit was, I was interested in GVSU but they didn’t accept me, the next best thing was Northern. My parents waited to tell me no to Northern until after they had let me apply, get accepted, take a road trip with a friend to tour, and made my decision to go. THAT was a mistake.</p>

<p>Then, after two years at community college, I was really convinced I wanted to go to CA or NY to study film (no particular dream school.) Dad said, “you mean to tell me you are interested in schools that are more expensive than Umich!? Are you crazy!?” which was what gave me the idea to go to Umich instead, in my 19 year old mind that was a green light. It wasn’t, they couldn’t afford umich either, but they never really had any intention of paying for me to go to any four year school so I did it myself.</p>

<p>I wonder if most kids really have a “dream school” or if they just want to go to college. This concept we have here on CC of touring across the country checking out schools is incredibly foreign to me and to the kids I grew up with, and most of them have parents that DID pay for them to go to four year schools. They just had to pick one of the local publics, and they did so with no fanfare or farfetched “dreams.”</p>

38

<p>I’ve looked at about 100 schools so far for my D. I’ve encouraged her to consider any school where she is a viable candidate and then we’ll see how the financial aid comes in and then she can go to any school that we can afford, and by ‘we’ I mean she and I not her dad and I as he is NCP and lives out of state though I do believe I can wrangle in state tuition out of that state (Tennessee). The dream for me is for her to graduate college (it can be any college). I think her dream is to be a physical therapist so bust a move because those programs are pretty competitive. I’ve researched affordable schools (if she bombs her ACT or SAT or GPA we can pay out of pocket) and also look at schools that seem to be generous with financial aid based on moderate projected stats (B student, good but not great test scores). I admit CC forum is not what I expected as I don’t feel that is has all that much benefit for the parent of the B/B- student and seems to be targeted to the elite schools though I guess you can start your own thread…</p>

39

<p>I had never heard of a “dream school” either until joining this community. Our financial planner built 3 kids and 3 college educations (based on UofM) into our “plan.” When time came for the kids to find colleges, we spelled out the budget and helped them find colleges that in all probability would fit our finances and meet their needs. The original estimates from 1987 fell short, but even having a plan helped with the long view. All three were able to chose their colleges from their acceptances so their “dreams” came from building “the list.” It was rocky when I was unemployed for a year and a half and my H took an unwanted “early retirement” during the economic downturn, but we have weathered the road albeit with a slightly less cushy retirement plan with the last in the middle of his freshman year in college. I think all too often parents plant the “dream college”, inadvertently or overtly.</p>

40

<p>I think all of the above posts illustrate that you must have some kind of plan set in advance, so that you don’t end up with an untenable situation. I told my kids from the time they were young that because their parents were of limited means (not poor enough for massive FA, but not wealthy enough to save heaps for college for 3), that they would have to use their brains, get good grades in school and qualify for merit scholarships. We decided to move from NY State to Texas when S1 graduated high school, because we knew the lower cost of living and income would help each kid’s FA situation, and it has. Each child was able to get admitted to a school that offered very good FA packages to middle income families, along with merit aid. I researched schools and gave them options. Right now my S2’s #1 choice -admitted early action - is looking like more loans that we would like (via NPC), but he still applying to a couple other very viable choices and working every angle he can to increase his merit award and sock away enough this summer via work to make his #1 choice doable. This is child #3, and we have luckily not incurred a huge amount of debt for the first two, who got into selective quality universities. If it comes down to us taking out a small yearly parents loan to make it work, I am fine with that, since we will in all likelihood be selling our house in another 5 years and have substantial equity in this home. But I never in a million years want to go down the road my best friend took with her oldest daughter, in which the girl threw a fit about attending an expensive LAC (to which she had received no merit aid) instead of the affordable state school, and her parents 2nd mortgaged heavily to do it. They are now in debt for over $100K, she is in debt as well, and she is back living at home, working a retail job and can’t find anything in her field. At this point, her parents’ home should be nearly paid off, but they are still struggling. And for what?
I made the point clear to my son about trying to increase his merit award by saying, $5k more over 4 years is $20K, which over 10 years is about $225 a month, which is my car payment. It’s not just abstract. Each family has to figure out what they are comfortable doing financially. Some families say no loans, while I myself had a small amount of college debt that I paid off over 10 years, so am not averse to my kids taking on a similar amount, and to us taking on a small amount of debt for their education. But I think the days of non-planning and just racking up the college debt are over. It’s foolish and really not worth it. Come April 1, if my son has to compare tens of thousands in FA offers, you can bet I am going to be sending him out for an overnight visit to the best offer, so that he can fall in love with it. Luckily his top 3 choices are all great schools, so I don’t think it will be that terrible for him to regroup.</p>