Test Score advice for LD/ADHD Student

Parents Forum
1

<p>I've already posted this in the LD/ADHD forum, but am hoping to benefit from higher traffic volume and wise advice from the posters here in this parents' forum:</p>

<p>D1 has non-hyperactive ADHD with underlying processing disorder - centered on math & analytical tasks. She goes to a Catholic HS with a higher level of rigor than our local public HS... and receives no special accommodations. She does take a time-released form of ritalin, which helps her focus for schoolwork. There are no behavioral issues. She's a great, motivated kid who hapens to fall shy of the mark academically.</p>

<p>Although she is a conscientious hard worker, her grades are marginal, at best. Junior year was a bear for her, as it is for many students, and she wound up with a handful of C+'s on her transcript (Chemistry, Alg II and Spanish III), which brought her gpa down to a 2.8.</p>

<p>Her second sitting of SAT yielded a 1510 (all three parts, folks).. which, although terrible... is 140 points higher than the first time. She won't be taking them again.. we're running with that windfall gain ;)</p>

<p>Her college list includes a bunch of small LAC's, some secodary level state schools, some with religious affiliation (her only hook -coming from parochial HS), and some other tertiary level state schools and satellite campuses. Although she is undecided on a major at this time, clearly it won't be engineering.</p>

<p>My question after all that background is this...</p>

<p>For schools where test scores are optional, would you send the 1510 since it is fairly commensurate with her 2.8 gpa... or would you leave it to chance that the Admissions folks might suspect her scores are even lower? She writes beautifully and I suspect her essay will be solid. I am also counting on both her teacher rec and guidance counselor rec to be resoundingly positive - centered on her work ethic and personal drive.</p>

<p>The GC is clearly overwhelmed and underpaid... and I can't get a definitive answer out of her, as to whether it is best for D1 to send the optional scores or not.</p>

<p>Anyone bite? What would you do? TIA...</p>

2

<p>I can’t offer any advice, but I think you are wise to ask this question and should try to get an answer from an admissions professional at a score optional school. No doubt there are unspoken rules that adcoms employ to evaluate students who don’t submit scores, and you need to know what they are so you can optimize your D’s chances. I say that because of what I just learned about hiring in the industry my son works in. He told me that the unwritten rule of thumb for resumes is that you should only put your GPA on your resume if it’s 3.4 or higher. If I understood the thinking correctly, the top companies who look for a GPA of 3.8 or above will discount you of course, but that would happen regardless since they will demand the information. But this way you can be a stronger candidate for the companies that don’t care as much so long as you are above 3.0, while avoiding highlighting unfavorable info if you’re closer to the 3.0. Who knew?</p>

3

<p>I haven’t heard back from D1’s GC yet… but it’s a very busy time for them, with their ED charges… thought I’d come here to see if anyone had encountered such a dilema.</p>

<p>fwiw… her 1st qtr grades close next week and she is doing well with an A in honors English, and B’s in everything else (including Physics and Stats)… <em>holding breath</em></p>

<p>Thanks, GFG. Writing to one of the test-optional schools is a great idea.</p>

4

<p>I’d call. I once anonymously called a local private school to ask how their admissions would view a particular situation. The counselor was very nice and gave me a good idea of how they think about certain things on applications.</p>

5

<p>Your daughter sounds like a great kid! I don’t think that a score of 1510 is terrible! I think that you should send this score. I think that there are many students across the country with this score that have higher grades than your daughter, and that this score boosts her.
In choosing a college, you should really consider what kind of support they will offer and how successful your daughter can be. You can check through an office of disability.</p>

6

<p>Thanks, levirm.</p>

<p>She was released from her iep at the end of middle school (she tested within normal range for math), before being accepted to the Catholic HS where she is now.</p>

<p>Her LD is currently undocumented… she has refused to be retested, arguing she wouldn’t seek support/services anyway, even if she qualified. Believe me… we tried to make this happen before SAT testing began last year.</p>

<p>I’m not suggesting future LD support won’t be a consideration for her once she gets to college… but she is pretty determined to work through her academic challenges with hard work, and the strategies she has developed over the past four years. </p>

<p>To be honest, I don’t worry about her being a successful student… especially once she is able to focus in an area, about which, she is passionate. She’s a pretty driven and capable young lady… just has a deficit in math/science, which she will surely avoid when possible, going forward. </p>

<p>My husband and I (as well as her GC) feel we have targeted the right kinds of schools for her…and she is on board with the final list we have helped her to build. My immediate objective is to help market her with the inclusion of the right kinds of information on her apps…so she can gain admittance.</p>

<p>I have a call into a couple of similar schools (small Catholic and/or private LAC’s she visited, but didn’t love)…to see what the AdCom folks there have to say.</p>

<p>Thanks for the encouragement and advice.</p>

7

<p>I would echo the advice to call the test optional schools, but the schools that have gone test optional really do mean it. They are not going to “imply” a test score for a student who has chosen not to submit scores, per the school’s policy. In most cases, such schools ask for some other kind of supporting documentation, such as a graded paper and/or an interview, when test scores are not submitted. This goes back several years, but when specifically asked this question a representative of a test optional school replied that if the M & CR scores together were 1200 or more, then it could only help. However, not submitting standardized test scores WOULD NOT have the admissions office assuming a lower score.</p>

8

<p>I don’t think documentation of ADHD requires testing. It can be diagnosed by an MD or psychiatrist. She is medicated. Who prescribed? ADHD can be diagnosed with questionnaires and interviews. Maybe others will have more info on this, and I could be wrong, but just wanted to raise the question.</p>

<p>I think scores around 500 aren’t bad. But it wouldn’t affect admissions to not send them, as someone else said.</p>

<p>I wonder if the guidance counselor could include information on the ADHD and problems with math/science in the recommendation letter, and emphasize work ethic and character.</p>

9

<p>^
NO, ADHD should NOT be diagnosed without testing, and honestly, IMO, it shouldnt be diagnosed by a nonpsychologist. In my school psychology PhD program (where the topic of ADHD and ADHD testing comes up a lot with clients), we are NOT allowed to diagnose a client with ADHD without a full ADHD psychoeducational eval, as too many things can mimic it in presentation. Our assessment and therapy clinics are separate, and we are never allowed to diagnosis therapy clients with ADHD based on just clinical interviews or questionnaires, even if they seem like textbook ADHD down to the letter (we are allowed to diagnose pretty much everything else except learning disabilities and intellectual disabilities, again both of which require formal testing). We can still do behavioral interventions with non-dx’ed clients with ADHD tendencies, and I bet plenty of people diagnose and prescribe meds without proper testing to confirm the dx, but it’s not best practices. Also, given that non-psychiatrist physicians receive relatively little mental health training, them diagnosing and treating mental health disorders without consultation makes me a bit edgy (ancedotally, I’ve known of MDs who would prescribe anti-depressants based on patients simply reporting being sad, which is a definite issue. And yes, I recognize that primary care physicians are sometimes the first or only line of care available to people).</p>

10

<p>My daughter has ADHD inattentive also. In order to use disability services at her school we had to provide a report from her psychologist detailing the tests he administered and the results. Her pediatrician screened her using a questionnaire but wouldn’t prescribe meds until we completed testing with a psychologist. I would check with the schools that you are interested in to find out the documentation the disability services department requires.</p>

11

<p>My daughter had a full neuro-psyched evaluation at Mass General Hospital at the end of 2nd grade for the original dx. She continued to see the pediatric neurologist who oversaw her care through middle school. Her pediatrician continues to administer and monitor her Rx… but since she has no currently documented need for services (iep, etc), she is not eligible for extra time on exams, etc.</p>

<p>She may concede at some point in hr college career, that it is best for her to be retested so she is eligible for available services… but that is not on the radar at this point.</p>

12

<p>In terms of getting accommodations for ADHD, schools require a recent comprehensive neuropsyc/ed testing (expensive if families need to pay) to secure accommodations for high school, college and/or standardized testing. Might it help if your daughter connected with college students who have ADHD/LD to learn more about how useful accommodations are? Or visit a disability services office on a college visit-- it doesn’t even have to be a college she will apply to.</p>

<p>My son has ADHD and didn’t get accommodations in H.S. despite testing documentation. He had excellent grades but he worked 24/7, did a lot of extra credit and had no life. Now as a freshman, he does have some accommodations and I know that they are helping him succeed. At orientation, he went to the disabilities meeting and heard 2 upperclassmen (one with dyslexia and one with ADHD) speak about their experience at school. Both had been A students in high school and both nearly failed out in freshman year of college before they accepted accommodations and got help from disability services (for dylexia: textbooks transfered to audio CD, note-taking, extra time.) Both students are doing well with accommodations. This really made an impression on my son - because he recognized how important accommodation were and that it was important to make use of them.</p>

<p>I would also suggest ADHD coaching. I think it can be extremely helpful for students. Take a look at EDGE foundation or just google ADHD coaching.</p>

<p>Best wishes!</p>

13

<p>One of the AdCom professionals responded with the following - with a disclaimer that I should address my questions directly with any schools my daughter is interested in, as each school will likely handle admissions differently.</p>

<p>From this AdCom’s perspective:</p>

<p>"…The ideal test optional candidate is the student who tests poorly but demonstrates through their transcript, strong grades and rigorous classes. Going test optional is a personal choice, and we make no assumptions about the test scores when we review test optional applications. We have had students who scored perfectly on the SAT go test optional. </p>

<p>For your daughter, if she were to go test optional, the only indicator of her academic progress would be her transcript. In the admissions process, we are looking for candidates who have done well in high school, and indicated through challenging courses and strong grades that they are prepared for college and the rigor of our college. We want our students to succeed and be able to stay here. </p>

<p>The best indicator of success and retention is the transcript, specifically junior and senior years. Being able to write well is important, but it only adds to the transcript, it cannot make up for a poor transcript. </p>

<p>I would recommend she address her LD in her essay, or at the very least make sure her guidance counselor or teacher mention it. It is always better to tell us about something that has affected her, rather than hoping we’ll pick up on it."</p>

14

<p>Based on ^this^ singular perspective, I believe my daughter will have nothing to lose by including her test scores with her common application…especially if she and/or her guidance counselor makes mention of her learning challenges to complete the picture. </p>

<p>Hopefully some of the schools on her list will probe beyond her transcript, to piece together the underlying details.</p>

15

<p>^^ the only issue I would see in submitting is if the particular school does record and reflect scores submitted and doesn’t want to do that if the scores are below the 25-75%. </p>

<p>When we were looking at test optional schools for my daughter prior to testing, we were advised not to submit if her scores were not at least at the 25%</p>

16

<p>One additional note: to get accommodations in college (extra time, notetakers, many other services available), she will have to have documentation of her disability (and you have to call it a disability to qualify for accommodations under the Americans with Disabilities Act) that is less than three years old. She may have to be restested. I don’t know how colleges will treat things, but the SAT would not accept medication and a psychiatrist’s diagnosis of ADHD to grant accommodations. They wanted to see testing, including testing of him doing tests times and untimed.</p>

17

<p>Her test scores with respect to the schools we are targeting, place her between the 50th and 75th percentile for verbal, and no lower than the 25th percentile for math. We are pretty confident we are looking at the right kinds of schools for her academic abilities and interests/needs.</p>

<p>We are aware that she will need to be tested again if she wishes to receive accommodations in college. Thanks all, for your assistance.</p>

18

<p>^^that makes sense, then, to submit…</p>

19

<p>My son, a h.s. junior, has ADHD predominantly inattentive type and has done terribly on practice SATs (mid 400s on CR and math, even after a Princeton Review course). He does, however, have reasonably good grades since his ADHD was diagnosed and he began receiving treatment about 6 months ago. My question is this: His guidance counselor says that even at “test optional” schools, most applicants still submit test scores and that this will put my son at a disadvantage. Any response to this? (We have visited a couple of test optional schools including Wheaton, Goucher, and Drew, where we were told in info sessions that he would not be at a disadvantage, so long as his grades were in the acceptable range.) Thanks for any advice.</p>

20

<p>@cmscribe:<br>
The feedback I received from all three of the test-optional AdComs I contacted on this matter echoed the same position - lack of submitted test scores will NOT be held against any candidate.</p>

<p>They also indicated that for such applicants, the student’s transcript is all they have to go on to determine potential for collegiate success and retention. Teacher and GC recs, the quality of essays and other intangibles from the app would likely NOT make up for a poor transcript. So your son sounds like he might be a good candidate to withhold scores, provided his transcript is strong… and you are targeting the right fit kind of schools, where he can thrive.</p>

<p>I wanted to report… my daughter banged out fourteen apps and their corresponding supplements over the weekend… well in advance of due dates. Some went EAII, others went rolling admissions, but the lion’s share were submitted RD. She did send test scores to all…</p>