Those considering might find this helpful. We’re 2 months in. EVERY KID IS DIFFERENT AND YOUR KID MAY NOT FEEL AS MINE DOES, NOR HAVE THE SAME UNIT EXPERIENCES. This could be worst case scenario, but I say go in eyes wide open because quitting is a painful and aggravating experience from what I hear. 20-25% quit. It takes days to process, and on-campus housing wasn’t available to the ones in our unit that quit after school started. Also, once school starts, your kid turns into a “transfer student” if they choose to leave A&M (much harder to get into other schools). Many say, “the Corps is not for everyone” — hopefully this will help you decipher that BEFORE committing.
My son did SNWC, liked the unit, and joined them. Here is what he did NOT learn from SNWC, especially as an out of state student.
There is major culture shock. My kid doesn't appreciate the mandatory-participation traditions. Most of the activities are not fun to him, but rather viewed as time wasters. He'd rather devote time to studies or socialize elsewhere.
No matter what anyone tells you, academics come 2nd. Yes in theory there is time set aside for academics, but fish are also expected to learn how to and execute perfectly: shine shoes, iron uniforms, learn and regurgitate an overwhelming amount of trivia, clean their rooms, make their beds, create spreadsheets, write letters, perform middle-of-the-night guard duty, make fish spurs, etc etc. Bed making literally took hours, and entails using strong tape to hold everything tightly in place. For fear of messing them up, and with little time to fix them, my fish's unit do not sleep in their beds, but on their beds with a blanket. I think this is why a sleeping bag is on the packing list as an optional item. The psychology of being screamed at (and being the weak link of your unit and letting others down) for doing something incorrectly motivates the cadets to first focus on Corps to-dos rather than academics. That is why there is another wave of quitters once school starts; they just can't balance the two demands.
Fish are not initially allowed to use any of the shelves and very few drawers, nor the closet except to hang uniforms. I think this privilege is granted after Christmas. Get the biggest footlocker you can since almost everything will be crammed in there, and that is one place that is off limits to upperclassmen. So imagine everything on that packing list (except folded clothes) going into the footlocker.
Your kid will get screamed at constantly no matter what, all the time. It is a mental game that some can take better than others. What is said can cross the line but in reality, no one will report it. The upperclassmen will lie to and play mind games with your fish. Your fish will be the abusers next year (see below).
At least initially, the fish are so afraid of the upperclassmen that they hide in their rooms, and pee in the sinks in their rooms rather than venture into the hall to get screamed at. They also hold going #2 for the same reason. My fish was constipated for a 2-3 weeks.
You'll pay for meals they never get to eat. Yes the food will be there in front of them, but fish only get about 5 minutes uninterrupted to actually shove it in, barely chew and swallow. The rest of the time they are answering to the upperclassmen, practicing 90-degree eating, etc. Every fish in my kid's unit was hungry all the time and relied on snacks stored in their footlockers. This happens for every meal 10 days during FOW. After school starts, this is for most breakfasts, and 3 dinners a week. Cadets can escape during lunch. The food in the Corps dining hall is below standards of other dining areas.
It's insanely hot in College Station, your cadet will sweat profusely but not really have time to do laundry, or, will not want to venture out into the hall to do laundry and get screamed at. In addition to infrequent laundry runs, mine went 3 weeks before swapping out to his 2nd uniform. He just didn't have time to iron it properly with mandatory creases and get the brass attached. When I found out, I opened an account with a dry cleaner that does pickup and delivery.
Weekends are barely your own. In the Fall, cadets are required to attend evening Midnight Yell practice on Fridays (yes it happens at midnight, and about 2-3 hours gone altogether). Then all day Saturday is taken up with marching into the game, mandatory standing in sweltering heat during the entire football game, and it's late when cadets get done. Sunday, if your cadet goes to church then there's a few hours before unit demands start again Sunday evening. Unfortunately mine has been skipping church to catch up on sleep and homework and Corps stuff. Shoes need to be shined everyday.
Very little socialization outside the unit. This has been the biggest challenge for my fish. He doesn't have a car, nor any outside friends to escape the Corps. He is trying to get involved in a non-Corps club, but that adds another layer of stress regarding time-management. He said the only time he’s had real laughter is when the upperclassmen say something funny while ridiculing the fish. That's pretty sad for someone that used to laugh all the time. He also said he feels his social skills waning and he is more awkward around non-Corp people, which is horrifying to my very gregarious kid. Sometimes you hear that Corps kids only talk about Corps stuff -- now I know why.
Honesty, I can not imagine how the band kids balance everything. Also here’s my limited take on Sophomore year: it gets a little better, but it’s still not great. The sophomores (aka pissheads) are the ones that mold the fish and do all the training and correction (screaming). They are up before the fish, babysit the fish, all while balancing their school work too. My fish noticed that the pissheads are striving just as hard to please their upperclassmen as the fish are trying to please the pissheads. A kid in my son’s unit quit because he could not envision next year treating people the way he was being treated. So, in reality, it gets good Junior year.
I don’t want to end on all negatives. My son now greatly appreciates good food, toilets, a comfortable bed, free time, laughter, friendship, home and his parents! Priceless in that regard.
PS — we are utilizing all layers of support available to our cadet and he’s hanging in there for now. Don’t hesitate to message me.
My fish just texted tonight. He was destroyed (screamed at) the worst ever and made to do 100 pushups. He was accused of something he didn’t do. Doesn’t matter. If you’re wondering why he doesn’t object or defend himself? Because fish are only allowed 4 responses: yes, no, I don’t know, no excuses. Fish basically just have to take it.
My second cousin was a fish last year. After a few months she couldn’t take it and left A&M. It was her dream school since she was little. She did go back this year but NOT to the Corps.
Everything you just listed is pretty much expected and can easily be found with just a couple minutes of googling…
Also
If your son prefers constipation over being yelled at, that’s kind of his choice.
I (and this is just personally) take around a minute to eat. 5 minutes seems like quite a decent chunk of time. If you aren’t wasting your time chit-chatting, that’s plenty of time to eat.
yochio, I would think yes. Anyone that transfers in goes through FOW (freshman orientation week). I even met an existing cadet that transferred from another A&M campus, who had to go through FOW again at the CS campus as a Sophomore. I can’t imagine they would hand you Junior privileges as a new cadet. I read somewhere that joining the Corps late can be hard and sometimes “those cadets never fit in”. I think there are units dedicated to transfer students and I would talk to several people that have gone through that process before committing.
Regarding “If you aren’t wasting your time chit-chatting, that’s plenty of time to eat.” I didn’t think “chit chat” was even allowed for fish at meal time. To my understanding, the only talking fish do is responding to upperclassmen’s questions, and those responses must fit very specific criteria, using specific words, and avoiding certain words. No, fish don’t dare say a word unless spoken to. Fish dare not ask for seconds, or condiments even salt/pepper. (I hear the bland eggs are horrible for this reason). Maybe this changes as time goes on, and maybe not every unit is like this, but as of now this is how it is for my fish.
One would assume that the Corps is structured and organized, with expectations clearly set. And yes, that is the overall goal, but it isn’t quite reality.
I think upperclassmen are young people still learning how to manage and lead themselves. Fish receive conflicting orders often – orders that are conveyed with threats and consequences. It’s a no-win situation for the fish. Part of becoming a good fish is to learn (or hone) time management, and most failures will be blamed on poor time management. However, it is not uncommon to get last minute schedule changes, have surprise activities added very short notice, or have due dates change short notice. The poor communication is another layer of frustration that could really demoralize a very organized or OCD personality.
(Or… it’s all part of the master plan mind games played on fish!)
After reading all of these comments, it appears that the parents and their students have missed the fundamental mission of ROTC programs at Senior Military Colleges. That is to develop entry level officers for the various branches of the military.
If all of the issues noted in these postings overwhelm a young student, they are probably not well suited to command troops in combat, where each of these specific issues become life and death problems.
This is not a poor reflection on them, just a wake-up call to select another career field.
I believe the point of the OP is that the Corps is more intense than some students believed it to be from the outside looking in. It is well known as an option for scholarships for out of state students, so many look at the financial benefit as primary, the program as secondary. In many places there is no exposure to this type of military environment, and so they are somewhat surprised as they expect something closer to ROTC, versus closer to a service academy. At this school you do not have to join the military at the end of college, so that would falsely lead you to think that it would not be a training school atmosphere.
To the OP - I would highly suggest joining an Aggie Mom’s group. It has many experienced parents who can help to explain & prep you as a parent regarding how it all really works. They have them out of state or you can affiliate to one in Texas. The Corps parents I know found it very helpful. https://aggiemoms.org/list-of-clubs/ There are also Aggie former student groups all over the country ( & world) you can find those in your area as well and I’m sure there will be former corps members there to help guide you as well. http://www.aggienetwork.com/clubs/findmyclub.aspx