<p>Despite its inconveniences, I'm thankful for the top 10% rule.
It's good to know that I have somewhere to go!</p>
<p>It makes a lot of top students feel better.
Even if UT is just their "back up," they still feel comfortable knowing that they have such a great school out there for them. So there really is no "worst" situation for us.</p>
<p>(hehe just pointing out the good side to this whole thread)</p>
<p>blinc, in order to be admitted to UT or A&M you have to have completed a "college bound" curriculum. I.E. using your math example - This includes 3 years of math, to quote from the UT website,</p>
<p>
[quote]
3 units (4 recommended) at the level of Algebra I or higher: algebra, plane geometry, trigonometry, analytic geometry, elementary analysis, probability and statistics, solid geometry, calculus with analytic geometry, or number theory. Informal geometry, pre-algebra, and mathematics of money are below-achievement-level courses and may not be counted toward the mathematics requirements.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You really seem to spout much of the hysterical "the sky is falling" rhetoric that I have been hearing (and reading) for years. Before you keep on, you need to go to the UT website and check your facts. </p>
<p>Also, if you got a chance to read the article I posted from the Chronicle, you will see that much of what you are saying about minority enrollment is just patently untrue. UT is having to actively go out to recruit blacks and hispanics because they are overwhelmingly (by whites and asians) underrepresented at the Austin campus.</p>
<p>The latest minority breakdown showed that minority math scores on the SAT at Texas were about 160 points below the student body admissions average. This was cited in the Hopwood case. Secondly a huge proprtion of the mionrity student body had to take a remedial math course in their freshman year. This is maybe a step above basic arithmetic and in NO way approcahes high school level algebra or geometry. In other words they were mathmatically illiterate by any college standard. The admissions department has the authority to waive any math requirement should the student show a special circumstance.. i.e. minority status, athletic potential, etc..</p>
<p>Lastly, let me address your statement that the university has to make a special effort to reach minorites because they are UNDERREPRESENTED. The FACT is that based on proportions of the student population blacks/hispanics are underrepresented... as are Hasidic jews, evangelical Christians, Conservatives, Scientolgists, rednecks, ...etc.... but no one seems to care about THEIR numbers in the name of diversity.</p>
<p>Based on merit, minorities are OVERREPRESENTED. If they had to be thrown into the general student pool and compete based on MERIT, their reprensentative numbers would probably be around 1%.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Based on merit, minorities are OVERREPRESENTED. If they had to be thrown into the general student pool and compete based on MERIT, their reprensentative numbers would probably be around 1%.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And you're basing this statement on what?</p>
<p>
[quote]
The FACT is that based on proportions of the student population blacks/hispanics are underrepresented... as are Hasidic jews, evangelical Christians, Conservatives, Scientolgists, rednecks, ...etc.... but no one seems to care about THEIR numbers in the name of diversity.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And this has to do with the 10% rule how?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Secondly a huge proprtion of the mionrity (sic) student body had to take a remedial math course in their freshman year. This is maybe a step above basic arithmetic and in NO way approcahes (sic) high school level algebra or geometry. In other words they were mathmatically illiterate by any college standard
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And you got this information where?</p>
<p>Me thinks you paint with way too broad of a stroke and are speaking out of your hind end. ;)</p>
<p>Sorry, I have to call a spade a spade.</p>
<p>Oops, you probably will take offense to that.</p>
<p>Also, if UT so clearly admits people that you in no way want any part of, why are you possibly attending?</p>
<p>Rumor has it that the 10% rule was George W's revenge on UT for rejecting his application to UT Law after graduating from Yale. He had to settle for Harvard B-school, bless his heart.</p>
<p>I think UT has had a hard time attracting African American students because segregation was so entrenched at UT for so long. When I attended in the late 70's it was about 2% black, and they have a long way to go to reach a critical mass of black students before the school is truly seen as a welcoming place to them.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Rumor has it that the 10% rule was George W's revenge on UT for rejecting his application to UT Law after graduating from Yale. He had to settle for Harvard B-school, bless his heart.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>HAHAHHAHAH that made me literally laugh out loud...</p>
<p>Disregarding the 10% rule, do you think Texas should be ranked higher? </p>
<p>I think it's ranked kind of low on a comprehensive national level. But it's 13th in engineering! And 6th in architecture!Not to mention </p>
<p>Now I know that rankings don't mean everything, and in some cases, it doesn't mean s**t. But on this scale, those rankings have to mean Texas should be ranked higher.</p>
<p>Did I mention that its the number one party school in the US? And its tops for beer and hard liquor? Could that be the reason its ranked low?</p>
<p>Depends on what you're looking for. If it's to party, then hey, it's number one! ;) jk</p>
<p>It is also ranked very high in business. The ranking systems are strange and arbitrary. Each magazine touting rankings has their own system, so how do you make a decision based on them? It seems to me that graduates of certain majors at UT are highly recruited nationally, especially business, engineering, and architecture. And, especially, if you are planning to reside in the Southwest, a diploma from UT is a great calling card and opens many doors. Perhaps someone in Connecticut might look askance at a UT grad, but if you are job hunting in Dallas or Houston, chances are, the interviewer is from UT. So, IMO, think about what you want out of life, try to imagine where you might want to live, and what you might want to do, and pick a school that has the best chance of giving you that opportunity.</p>
<p>For those reasons, my s has UT at the top of his rankings to the point that he didn't even apply anywhere else. He wants to graduate with a business major, preferably accounting, he wants to reside in Houston, and he wants to be employable at graduation in the location in which he wants to reside. A degree from UT will give him those things.</p>
<p>On a personal note, I like to stay on the East Coast, and go for architecture and architectural engineering. But there are are few schools here(to my knowledge) that offer these both as some kind of dual degree program. And the higher ranked colleges here aren't available for this. That's why I want to go to UT, and yes, there are jobs aplenty in Texas, but I don't think I'd like to live there (no offense, I lived in Texas for two years and liked it). So I'm kinda stuck. </p>
<p>By the way, is UT really the top party school? Yes I know its neccessary in college, but is it that laid back? I hope not, at least among the engineering/business/ architecture students.</p>
<p>Any word on whether they're gonna get rid of the top 10% rule?</p>
<p>Hey, no offense taken to not wanting to live here, it's not for everybody :) !</p>
<p>At a school as big as UT, you are going to find ALL types of people, so if you are a partier, you can find others, if you are a stay at home and chill kind of person, there are plenty of them too. To get into the engineering/business/architecture schools (and to stay in them) you have to be a serious student, or at least someone who has learned to take care of your business. I don't think everyone will be laid back, there is probably a multitude of high energy, competitive, go-getters. </p>
<p>I think (and mind you, I'm no expert) that in a field such as architecture, that by attending a highly regarded undergraduate architectural program, you would be employable nation wide. I know that graduates of the business school at UT are recruited heavily nation wide, with many ending up in New York, Chicago, etc. I'm fairly sure it is the same with architecture. But, to ease your worries, you should talk to someone in the architecture dept. I am sure that, as in the business school, they keep records of where people are being recruited and by which firms. This should give you some idea if you will be furthering your goals by attending UT.</p>
<p>As to the 10% rule.... There is always discussion in the state legislature about what to do about it, and nothing ends up changing. (Our state legislature has trouble agreeing on many school issues such as school funding, what to do with the TAKS test, tuition rates at colleges, and more-but those topics are for another day) Right now, I know that UT is asking to have it capped at like 50%, meaning that 50% of the class will be filled by top 10%ers and the rest done holistically. I don't know if it will fly, but they are giving it a shot. Any time a legislator tries to change the 10% rule, it gets shot down, and despite what blinc says, it is usually shot down by the rural legislators who are trying to help their constituents' kids gain admission to the Flagship U's. (Interesting to add that the US Supreme Court has ruled that race MAY be considered in admissions, so the minority district legislators could argue for a return to pre-Hopwood methods of admission standards if the 10% rules is overturned. This would not help the rural white kids at all, it would set them back.) </p>
<p>UT used to be highly populated by kids from very few areas, the 10% rule has (supposedly) widened the base from which the freshman class is chosen. But, as the Houston Chron. article stated (in another thread), a large percentage of kids are still enrolling from so called "feeder schools" and suburbs of Houston and Dallas.</p>
<p>In other words- don't expect the 10% rule to go away any time soon. There may be some tweaking to it, but I expect it to stay in some form or fashion.</p>
<p>I think the change to the feeder school stats is more dramatic than the Chronicle lets on. </p>
<p>All the stats are at UT's site: <a href="http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/research/%5B/url%5D">http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/research/</a></p>
<p>Just scanning the list, there are a handful of schools (Woodlands, Plano) that have 60-80 students entering UT, but most are spread over almost 1,000 schools. Looking at my D's HS as an example, they had about 50 out of a class of 5-600 this year. That is a lot, but in past years - prior to the 10% rule really taking hold - they had sent as many as 170 to UT. </p>
<p>The stats only go back to 1997, but in my day (70's), in my suburban white HS, you either went to A&M or UT and at the end of Senior year we had a football game between the groups.</p>
<p>Interesting. I will have to look at the list. If that is so, then the 10% rule is working by spreading out the admissions base.</p>
<p>Funny thing, we got our Xmas dance club directory yesterday. It lists kids and schools attending - they are almost ALL either at Texas, A&M, or TCU. My oldest is at UF, and there were 2 or 3 other out of staters, but for the most part, all these people's kids are at the same schools! Come on people - think outside the box!! We certainly aren't doing the CC thing where you apply to obscure LA colleges that noone has ever heard of ;) </p>
<p>I say this knowing that my senior s will be at Texas next year. The pull is too great!</p>
<p>I can say that I was one of the 61 from Plano East. However, looking at my friends list from high school it does not seem at all like 60 people are here: which was almost exactly 50% of the top 10% of my school.</p>
<p>In looking at the schools from Houston, all the schools with double digit UT enrollment are all (with VERY few exceptions) predominately white suburban high schools. Many are off shoots of the super sized hs's that keep dividing as the population keeps moving out of center Houston. It makes me wonder where the top 10% kids from the predominately minority schools are going? I doubt A&M. Maybe U of H? Maybe more historically minority schools such as TSU? I don't know, but they aren't going to UT if these stats are correct.</p>
<p>grandpabuzz - 60 people spread out in a population of 49000 would be hard to spot! Do you, as a student, feel that the admissions committee is doing a good job with diversity? Or does it seem like people all come from the same kinds of hs's with similar backgrounds? Do you see many that are struggling because they came from a less competitive environment? I think one of the main concerns with the 10% rule is that it is allowing less qualified students in. Does it seem that way to you, as a current student?</p>
<p>it helps that texas is a diverse state.</p>
<p>ag54- Probably my biggest problem with the 10% rule is the lack of consistency between student to student. You are going to have highly motivated and studious students from Plano or other Dallas and Houston suburbs, but then you are going to have a good majority of people who could care less about academia, fail all their classes, and never study because they are partying all the time. You may say that is the same at all campuses, but given the fact that there is a large porportion of these motivated individuals, there should not be such a large gap between the motivated and nonmotivated.
Diversity I would argue is pretty good. You are going to see a wide variety of different races and cultures distributed pretty well even on a standard dorm floor. While it's possible the 10% may help with some of diversity, I would still rather UT put in a regular admission process with AA used as necessary.</p>
<p>grandpabuzz, do you think that the people who could care less about academia, fail, never study and party all the time are top 10% kids from lesser hs's? What I'm trying to get at, is I want to figure out if these kids who people are complaining about, the top 10% kids from bad high schools, cannot hack it at UT. It has been stated in this thread that many have to take remedial courses and such. Are these the burnout kids of which you speak?</p>
<p>When we met with an admissions guy in the business school, he stated that the top 10% kids were doing well at UT, contrary to opinion, and that he felt that regardless of the high school curriculum, to be in the top 10% at any school required hard work and dedication, all of which translates to success in college. </p>
<p>BTW, the people you are talking about - the partiers who don't take school seriously, fail out, etc. sound alot like some over priviledged slackers who have always had things come easily and are not used to working for anything, much less a grade. I know many of them at my s's suburban Houston hs! The main thing on their minds is "Where's the party this weekend and where's the keg?" Not very conducive to learning.</p>
<p>I would assume most of these unmotivated individuals are from the 10% of lesser high schools since getting into UT out of this range is quite an accomplishment. As for the business school person, I would argue that he would say something like that to both promote his school, and also because individuals in the business school are typically more motivated then those of some of the other schools. For example, in my CMS class which is filled with business and communication students you can definitely see a difference in how they behave, act, and perform relative to my government class for example which is mostly comprised of Liberal Arts majors. That's not too say there are not any motivated LA students, but there is some discreptencies between the schools.</p>
<p>interesting..</p>
<p>I wondered at the time if he was just spouting the "party line" but of course my s and I nodded in agreement because what else are you going to do! Plus, the business school doesn't have top 10% people, they typically have top 3% or so, which is a different breed of cat all together. </p>
<p>Today in the news there is information that Texas A&M, in a move to try to increase diversity on campus, is opening up a guaranteed admission provision to people at community colleges in underrepresented areas. If I remember correctly, the provisions are 24 hours and a 3.2 (?). I wonder if UT will do the same thing. </p>
<p>How many classes per semester are you taking with the regular LA people? Are they just gen ed requirements? Are they enormous? My s in Florida takes 1 or 2 honors classes a semester and the rest gen ed. Some of those classes are ridiculously large! Some of them are even on-line courses where he doesn't even go to class, only for tests. Luckily, after this semester, he starts with his major specific classes which should be smaller (he hopes). Do you have many like that?</p>