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<p>John, I’ve lived in St. Louis. I’m familiar with Southern Illinois. It’s not a progressive part of the state / area of the country. The people there have little in common with the metropolitan people in St. Louis or Chicago. That’s not an act.</p>
<p>Let me add thos quick comparison for those who continue to diss TSU</p>
<p>Here are the middle 50% SAT stats for TSU from the collegeboard website</p>
<p>SAT Critical Reading: 480 - 570<br>
SAT Math: 490 - 590
ACT Composite: 21 - 25</p>
<p>Now compare them to these same stats for another college</p>
<p>SAT Critical Reading: 490 - 600
SAT Math: 500 - 610
ACT Composite: 21 - 27</p>
<p>or to this college:</p>
<p>SAT Critical Reading: 490 - 590<br>
SAT Math: 520 - 620
ACT Composite: 22 - 26</p>
<p>The numbers are all very comparable. Certainly all in the same general range / ballpark. So who are the two mystery schools . Well the first one is the Univ of Alabame. Yes, the same Univ of Alabama that many here talk their kids about applying to and getting a free ride into because of their test scores. </p>
<p>The second is none other than texas Tech who MOWC would take in a minute over TSU.</p>
<p>Wow, the stench of hypocrisy is now filling this thread. So it is ok for smart kids to take the money and go to Alabama - but you can’t let a smart girl who seems like she wants to take the money and go to TSU - even though the SAT stats are virtually identical ???</p>
<p>Yes my dear friends - it is clear for some folks on CC it is all about the name. Alabama has that certain cache where TSU does not - even though the quality of students entering based on the SAT scores is virtually identical per the collegeboard website</p>
<p>slithytoad</p>
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<p>But the OP did not say that virtually all the students at TSU were idiots like teriwtt did</p>
<p>Pizzagirl</p>
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<p>Hmmm, you realize your statement has no validity. How can you make a statement that there appear to be better choices when you yourself admit you know nothing about TSU?</p>
<p>And we all know that SAT scores should be THE defining criteria! Comparing Texas State to Alabama. Oh, please. Cache? I don’t think that’s been mentioned as part of the appeal of Alabama. There ARE those nice national championship t-shirts, though! In fact, one concern for honors kids considering Alabama (as posted by many on this site and many that I know in person here in the south) is whether they would truly be with their academic “tribe”. </p>
<p>Berryberry, “nothing ventured, nothing gained”, to quote you (albeit in a different context). Shouldn’t this student “venture”? </p>
<p>Did you live in Texas, Berryberry? Do you have any information about this school at all…?</p>
<p>On the topic of being in school with slackers:</p>
<p>When a student is in a large freshman lecture hall with 100+ students, she doesn’t really know who the slackers are. Some may cut class a lot but it’s hard to notice if they’re rarely there. You sit there, you take your notes and you’re gone. Little interaction or discussion.</p>
<p>Other than that, even at a mid-level state school, a very bright, advanced student is not going to be in a lot of classes with the dregs of the school. A few months ago our local paper had a long article about Texas HS students not being prepared for college. They interviewed an administrator from A&M Commerce who talked about their special program to help their students pass Algebra…yes, this is the same Algebra that many of our students passed in 8th grade. </p>
<p>But a college is not going to make a student who is ready for Calc sit in the Intro to Algebra class. There are math and foreign language placement exams. It’s easy enough to place out of English 101. And if she ends up paired with an “idiot” for a project in Speech 101, maybe she can view it as a “missionary” project and try to bring the partner up to her level.</p>
<p>(Digression: My law school moot court partner and I were paired at random when our original partners quit. My new partner had planned to do the bare minimum to pass [it was a pass/fail class]. However, I was so darned prepared for every argument that it put him to shame and he started getting into it so as not to be the sole reason we lost. We made it to the quarterfinals, but more importantly for the story, 3rd year he was in charge of the entire moot court program.)</p>
<p>Limbwalker and others, I would ask you not to be offended by the zeal of some posters for other schools. Most of us are just delighted when kids - not even our own kids - get into whatever we deem a terrific school (whether we deem the school terrific for reputation, academics or the football team). It’s just the parent in us.</p>
<p>One of our HS’s very top recent grads is at UT Arlington. I don’t know her family but I wanted to find them and take them aside and say “But she could go almost anywhere!!!” The student comes from a culture that is very protective of their daughters, so I assume that her ability to live at home and commute was the one and only deciding factor, but I was so tempted to stick my nose in their business. It’s just the mom in me.</p>
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<p>There’s no “stench of hypocrisy” as far as I’m concerned. It would take a lot for me to send my kid to Alabama, too – either a particular program that was offered nowhere else in the country / was unique to Alabama, or a full free ride which meant the difference between having a college education and none at all. </p>
<p>You’d have more of a case of hypocrisy if you posted the name of a college that had some prestige / cachet / a “name” but similar SAT scores to TSU. Mom2collegekids is a real booster of Alabama, but I can’t think of anyone else who is.</p>
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<p>Indeed, there is a particular poster who is considering a similar school - Ole Miss - for his son because of a particular program there, but has some real concerns about whether the kid will have enough of a “tribe” of like-minded, serious students there. It’s a real concern.</p>
<p>Having gone to hs in Missouri, I know more than a few really bright kids who had no choice but to go to Mizzou for financial reasons, and some of them really imploded. It was frustrating to be in an environment where they perceived that half their classmates were re-living high school by rooming with the same people, and the other half were more interested in sports and partying. Are there undoubtedly bright, serious, hard working students at Mizzou? Of course. But in the absence of anything else, if you have the opportunity and the wherewithal to explore elsewhere, why wouldn’t you? </p>
<p>Obviously, John, you think there’s <em>something</em> to the concept of different colleges having different atmospheres and feels, otherwise you wouldn’t have posted in the first place. Sometimes it’s unavoidable to put the smart student in the party school because those are the finances of things, but all else being equal, why not at least try for a better fit?</p>
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<p>LOL, Mizzou has become a popular destination for a lot of Texas’ bright-but-not-top-10% HS grads!</p>
<p>As to SATs - they are one measure that exists that people use all the time to compare the academic prowess of incoming students. The comparison shows the student body at TSU is in fact on the same level as that of Univ of Alabama and Texas Tech</p>
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<p>Did someone already answer this question? If so, I apologize.</p>
<p>Negotiation is sometimes possible. It depends how much a school wants the student and if they think they have to up the offer to get that student. Obviously they also have to actually have the money. In my experience, you have to bring a better offer, from a peer or higher ranked school, to the table to have a chance of successfully negotiating a better scholarship offer. But my experience is all from before the economic crash.</p>
<p>ps: since you seem unfamiliar with the process and just in case: some scholarships are not guaranteed for four years.</p>
<p>And also, imho, elite privates have more ability and means to negotiate scholarship awards than state schools.</p>
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<p>Univ of Alabama, to its credit, has invested significantly in upgrading resources, creating an honors college, and increasing its national presence so that it is regarded as more than just an average regional state school. I have no idea if TSU has done the same, but there is a difference between an institution that is taking major steps to be taken seriously and one that isn’t.</p>
<p>oh please, berryberry, I attended TSU for two years, and have continued to follow its progress, although minimally. Based on the daughter’s stats, her own father’s admission that she uses the term idiot to define people not as bright as she, it was a drawn conclusion that she will see many of the students there as ‘idiots’, as defined by her own definition, not mine. Are you telling me she will be virtually surrounded by people of her own caliber academically?</p>
<p>“There are colleges all across the country that may not be name schools or have prestige names - where good hard working, smart kids go and have great experiences every day. There are tons of “non-name” schools challenging students in the classroom every day.”</p>
<p>Agreed, berryberry. It’s frustrating to me when posters react with such anger when others don’t accept their beliefs as their own and this isn’t unique to this thread. There seems to be a constant battle on this board over elitism (or not) and going away to school (or not). One thing is certain; there will never be total agreement here. </p>
<p>I also agree with berryberry about the pushing of certain schools on this board where I don’t see the allure. No disrespect to anyone who feels differently but Bama was just not that impressive in my daughter’s field when we were visiting schools, just MHO. My daughter turned down a full ride in the honors college. But, that doesn’t mean that there aren’t outstanding kids there doing great things. It just wasn’t where she wanted to be and had something to do with Tuscaloosa as well. I do feel like Bama is pushed on this board more than it merits. I don’t agree that it is regarded as more than an average regional state school in my part of the country.</p>
<p>John, Good luck to your daughter and your family as you go through this process. I’ve never been to TSU so can’t comment in a meaningful way on the school itself. </p>
<p>Since my daughter is currently applying to grad school, I will suggest that one aspect to consider since your daughter sees grad school in her future is to ask each school about the potential for undergrads to be involved in research or an undergrad thesis. Those opportunities are more readily available at some schools than others and the research experience will strengthen her grad school application, as well as provide strong recommendations from her Profs.</p>
<p>Also, as a final note and please don’t take this as confrontational because I don’t intend it as such, I’m hoping that those of you who have said that your kids “don’t suffer fools” well have talked/will continue to talk with them about the necessity of getting along with different types of people IRL. You can put them in a bubble in college with those around them deemed able to stimulate them intellectually but in the end they also have to be skilled at getting along in the real world. I’ve seen this in my own family as one of my brothers has struggled with this in his personal life and his professional life. FWIW, he graduated from a small private high school and then from a small private university in Texas. The real working world was a tough adjustment.</p>
<p>…the town I lived in was full of well educated, incredibly progressive people. It was the “bedroom” community for a lot of faculty and staff for SIU, as well as a lot of the other professionals and local business owners. It was also the home of John A. Logan college - a top junior college with impeccable facilities that added to the small town’s attractiveness for residents. Combine that with the local scenery, the budding wine trail and the new Minor league ballpark, and the area is actually quite progressive…</p>
<p>John.</p>
<p>Magnolia, I’m trying. I’ve told ds before that he’s a snob about it. But I’ll make sure to reinforce the idea as he goes about narrowing his choices.</p>
<p>“And if she ends up paired with an “idiot” for a project in Speech 101, maybe she can view it as a “missionary” project and try to bring the partner up to her level…”</p>
<p>LOL! I had to laugh. She has said this kind of thing herself already… And she views it quite the same way too. ha, ha. </p>
<p>Pizzagirl,</p>
<p>Sure, of course I realize there’s something to the concept. But that’s not why I started this thread. Again, you and several others who are hung up on status are missing the point and turning the thread in your own direction. I don’t ever recall asking whether TSU was “good enough” for my daughter. I’ll go back and look, but I’m pretty sure all I ever asked for was some information about the school from those who would know. </p>
<p>(not being argumentative, honest) It has been yourself and many others that seem to dwell on the “what if’s” and “why not’s”, comparing the school to others, worrying about “presige” and the like. </p>
<p>Would I like her to consider a potentially more “challenging” school? Sure. And I’ve said as much already. But in the instance that she’s not emotionally or otherwise ready for that, I’ve got to support her decision and be practical about our finances. So the best thing for me to do is ask for more info. about TSU.</p>
<p>Which I have.</p>
<p>So there are two parallel discussions taking place here, both using TSU as their basis. The first is general information about the school. Helpful stuff, like “hey, there’s a tram that runs from TSU to Austin every day…” The second discussion is one hung up on status, comparing TSU to other schools and fretting over whether it’s “good enough” for my child or anyone elses. I see these as two seperate issues for me at the moment…</p>
<p>John.</p>
<p>I went digging around and found another forumite’s impression of the OP’s D, which John said was spot-on. Teenagers change, but at the time the kid was:</p>
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<p>Now, if I were a GC and looking to help a high schooler find a great fit, I’d be pushing the entire Colleges That Change Lives type of college experience for this kind of student. A kid with straight A’s and excellent test scores who is also eligible for need-based aid would have a lot of options to choose from…if she’s interested. Yes, of course she could transfer, but there’s generally not as much merit money for transfer students. </p>
<p>But I’m not a GC, and John’s D makes her own choices. I’d like to think that he’s going to mention to his D that there are a bunch of adults who think she should consider a few other schools, based on what they think she might enjoy. She might think we’re all a bunch of wierdo creepers, or she might just decide that the opinions of adults other than her own parents are valuable. My kids generally think more of the opinions of adults who aren’t their parents :)</p>
<p>Alh, </p>
<p>thanks for answering my question. That’s good information. Yes, her scholarship offer was guaranteed for four years. It certainly made TSU “VERY” attractive for us, considering she had already expressed an interest in going to school there. If the same offer had come from A&M or Rice (schools she has said she “definitely” didn’t want to attend - for her own personal reasons - ), it would be unfortunate to say the least…</p>
<p>I should add (for the benefit of some) that my daughter tends to use the word “idiot” to describe her classmates during “certain” times of the month… 
If you get my drift… Hey, we’re all human, right? :D</p>
<p>I keep telling her that no matter what college she attends, there MOST CERTAINLY won’t be someone like “a few” of her classmates sitting next to her, and to take heart in that… I can remember how refreshing college was (even little 'ol SFA) when I finally arrived. With the exception of a few “idiots” and selfish overprivleged brats, I found a lot of folks I could actually have an intelligent conversation with. I suspect she will do the same regardless of where she goes…</p>
<p>Magnolia,</p>
<p>Thank you. We briefly looked into the honors program and they mentioned an undergrad “thesis” which caught my daughter’s attention. I think her comment (she’s very brief) was “I could do that.” And that concluded our discussion for the evening… LOL!</p>
<p>And I agree about the “suffering fools” comment. I’m afraid she gets that from me, and I most DEFINITELY got it from my mother. It’s not a trait I’m proud of, and I do struggle to improve in that area. I also constantly challenge my kids to NOT follow their father’s example when I slip up and spew what I’m thinking… I think they do a much better job than I, and they probably have their mom to thank for that…</p>
<p>John.</p>